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A big reason why... #7134994
01/13/21 04:28 PM
01/13/21 04:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,997
Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
Hodagtrapper Offline OP
Muskrat Master
Hodagtrapper  Offline OP
Muskrat Master

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,997
Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
A big reason why ammunition is so hard to find:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ld-in-2020-up-60-women-blacks-top-buyers

Add in Corona work slow downs and difficulty in manufacturers procuring components plus the hoarders and profiteer's the ammunition shortage makes sense!

Chris


>>In God we trust<<
Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135030
01/13/21 04:58 PM
01/13/21 04:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
Still think there needs to be a more equitable means of rationing the tight supply other than first come, first served and dumping it into that black hole known as the supply chain. Pretty sure there is all manner of whacky stuff going on out there. I have no doubt there are people with means who would buy an entire warehouse meant for retail if they could. All the hoarding and profiteering is creating undue demand and panic buying.

Still think the makers, which all have marketing websites, need to retain enough supply to sell bricks and case lots themselves with single limits per order....and sell at full retail, plus shipping. That limits the influence of the profiteering and hoarding bunch and puts small lots into many hands, vs. large lots into a few hands. Then plow the windfall profits back into expanding production.

Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135041
01/13/21 05:14 PM
01/13/21 05:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,640
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,640
Minnesota
You're hung up on that aren't you...


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: A big reason why... [Re: HayDay] #7135043
01/13/21 05:15 PM
01/13/21 05:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3,976
Crivitz WI
Sprung & Rusty Offline
trapper
Sprung & Rusty  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3,976
Crivitz WI
Originally Posted by HayDay
Still think there needs to be a more equitable means of rationing the tight supply other than first come, first served and dumping it into that black hole known as the supply chain. Pretty sure there is all manner of whacky stuff going on out there. I have no doubt there are people with means who would buy an entire warehouse meant for retail if they could. All the hoarding and profiteering is creating undue demand and panic buying.

Still think the makers, which all have marketing websites, need to retain enough supply to sell bricks and case lots themselves with single limits per order....and sell at full retail, plus shipping. That limits the influence of the profiteering and hoarding bunch and puts small lots into many hands, vs. large lots into a few hands. Then plow the windfall profits back into expanding production.


Just like toilet paper last spring. Haha

Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135057
01/13/21 05:26 PM
01/13/21 05:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,997
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
trapper
charles  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,997
Asheville, NC
The ammo makers could sell receipts for future delivery. When the ammo truck comes to a town, owners of the future delivery receipts could pick up their ammo. This would be way cheaper than shipping small orders to our door.

Bulk chicken is being sold like this in NC.

Re: A big reason why... [Re: HayDay] #7135058
01/13/21 05:26 PM
01/13/21 05:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
North Dakota
W
WakopaWalker Offline
trapper
WakopaWalker  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
North Dakota
Originally Posted by HayDay
Still think there needs to be a more equitable means of rationing the tight supply other than first come, first served and dumping it into that black hole known as the supply chain. Pretty sure there is all manner of whacky stuff going on out there. I have no doubt there are people with means who would buy an entire warehouse meant for retail if they could. All the hoarding and profiteering is creating undue demand and panic buying.

Still think the makers, which all have marketing websites, need to retain enough supply to sell bricks and case lots themselves with single limits per order....and sell at full retail, plus shipping. That limits the influence of the profiteering and hoarding bunch and puts small lots into many hands, vs. large lots into a few hands. Then plow the windfall profits back into expanding production.


When shipping and delivery is the hang-up, adding another line and process for shipping and delivery will do nothing to help the situation. It would divert labor and resources from shipping to the pipeline that already exists.

Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135062
01/13/21 05:32 PM
01/13/21 05:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,680
South Ga - Almost Florida
S
Swamp Wolf Offline
trapper
Swamp Wolf  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,680
South Ga - Almost Florida
Should find a buddy that bought up ammo over the last couple years when you dropped the ball and did not. Ask him if you can come to his home when crap hits the fan.

If you don't have a stocked up buddy.....good luck.


Thank God For Your Blessings!
Never Half-Arse Anything!

Resource Protection Service

Re: A big reason why... [Re: HayDay] #7135063
01/13/21 05:32 PM
01/13/21 05:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 31,482
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 31,482
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by HayDay
Still think there needs to be a more equitable means of rationing the tight supply other than first come, first served and dumping it into that black hole known as the supply chain. Pretty sure there is all manner of whacky stuff going on out there. I have no doubt there are people with means who would buy an entire warehouse meant for retail if they could. All the hoarding and profiteering is creating undue demand and panic buying.

Still think the makers, which all have marketing websites, need to retain enough supply to sell bricks and case lots themselves with single limits per order....and sell at full retail, plus shipping. That limits the influence of the profiteering and hoarding bunch and puts small lots into many hands, vs. large lots into a few hands. Then plow the windfall profits back into expanding production.



I doubt there would be any "windfall profits" if you have to create and operate a retail sales & shipping service.


Mean As Nails
Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135068
01/13/21 05:37 PM
01/13/21 05:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
Well I'm not at risk of going down without a fight for lack of means, but I've got at least 8 to 10 retail options nearby that normally stock ammo....big box stores, farm and home, gun shops etc....and that's not counting Midway or Graff&Sons. I've been keeping an eye on things, and haven't seen any ammo on the shelves in about 4 months. Now and then, I'll see one box of something I never heard of.....but nothing common. So whatever is going on out there isn't working to ease that problem. It's just making it worse.

Seems to me the secret to getting out of this is to put many small lots into as many hands as possible in hopes the masses will calm down. Kinda like when you have to ration food and water. Best to give some to everyone vs. to only one guy. Right now, the normal market supply chain is broken.

Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135078
01/13/21 05:45 PM
01/13/21 05:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,783
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,783
Green County Wisconsin
just take solace that in the knowledge that billions of rounds making their way to private stashes , eventually people will be full or out of money in the mean time freedom seeds are finding homes.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135084
01/13/21 05:50 PM
01/13/21 05:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
An example of what I'm talking about.....CCI has something like 30 to 35 different product lines for 22 rimfire alone. They also have a website from which you can order direct from them. So they have the means to take orders and ship already. They are not creating anything......all they need to do is utilize what they already have in place.

Convert lines to one or two of their single most popular products and offer bricks of those.....instead of putting them in cases on pallets to ship out, put a label on a single brick, then put those on a pallet that goes in a truck that delivers straight to the post office or UPS sorting facility for delivery. All those millions of shooters who are out now have a source for a brick, so no longer out. Basically do what mail orders like Midway are already doing. And get the full retail price vs. the wholesale.

We are all probably in good shape, but telling an empty chamber "shoulda stocked up last year".......when they didn't have a gun last year.........does not help them today. We need to find a way to get those guys off the field.

Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135105
01/13/21 06:03 PM
01/13/21 06:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
Semi related example. Back in Aug, I used my last canning jar lids. Have been watching since and none anywhere in the places that normally sell them. But then remembered a bulk source, made one phone call and picked up 12 doz....at least a 2 year supply for me. So now if I saw a stocker putting lids on the shelf, I'd walk on by and leave for the next guy who is out.

We need to do the same thing....get some ammo in ALL hands.....so folks don't feel compelled to grab it......just because.

Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135110
01/13/21 06:09 PM
01/13/21 06:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,783
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,783
Green County Wisconsin
durring the 22lr shortage CCI did reduce product offerings and make the most common products and especially the products that needed the least change over and calibration blazer was all we could get for a while.

many of the stores are already limiting people to 2 boxes.

many stores are breaking up a brick of 22lr into 10 50 round boxes.

right now even of stores only let you buy 1 box it wouldn't last the day on the shelf.

I was at Farm and Fleet in September and a case of 9mm had just been put on the shelf there were about 20 boxes left and you had to get a clerk to open the case and get you out your max 2 boxes. figuring it would take a long time to get a clerk I go to check on my son 10 minutes later it was all gone I got back as the clerk was handing a guy his 2 boxes


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: A big reason why... [Re: HayDay] #7135118
01/13/21 06:20 PM
01/13/21 06:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,737
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline
trapper
Finster  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,737
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by HayDay
Semi related example. Back in Aug, I used my last canning jar lids. Have been watching since and none anywhere in the places that normally sell them. But then remembered a bulk source, made one phone call and picked up 12 doz....at least a 2 year supply for me. So now if I saw a stocker putting lids on the shelf, I'd walk on by and leave for the next guy who is out.

We need to do the same thing....get some ammo in ALL hands.....so folks don't feel compelled to grab it......just because.

So what you are rambling on about throughout your posts is that you think "someone" should regulate who gets to purchase these goods because the demand is high. Everyone should have an equal chance of getting whatever they need. There is a system like that in place. It works flawlessly on paper. It is called Communism You see, that's where the state gets to decide how everyone gets everything equally and we all know how the state is always fair and without corruption so yes, I'm sure we would all be knee deep with ammo and canning supplies if we just let them handle it fairly! crazy

Last edited by Finster; 01/13/21 06:20 PM.

I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135144
01/13/21 06:51 PM
01/13/21 06:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
That is probably the first time I've been even remotely associated with communism. If you only knew.

Not some state actor......only the people that make it. Eliminate the middle man so to speak. Suck up the gravy so they can double what they are doing now. Then when supply finally catches up to demand, and things calm down, go back to doing whatever the market wants.

Seems to me this ammo thing has evolved into something like what happens in one of those middle east refugee camps. Half million poor souls camped out on the side of a hill when a UN truck shows up with 100 pound bags of rice. The desperate starving masses overwhelm any means of orderly distribution with only a few of the strongest and most aggressive making off with the big bags and everyone else left with an empty sack. That makes the riots even worse the next time.

That vs. a more orderly process like having them all line up single file and giving each of them a 1 pound sack. Same people, same amount of rice, only change is putting some order in place so each at least gets a chance at it.

Re: A big reason why... [Re: HayDay] #7135368
01/13/21 08:47 PM
01/13/21 08:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,737
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline
trapper
Finster  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,737
Fredonia, PA.
Originally Posted by HayDay
That is probably the first time I've been even remotely associated with communism. If you only knew.

Not some state actor......only the people that make it. Eliminate the middle man so to speak. Suck up the gravy so they can double what they are doing now. Then when supply finally catches up to demand, and things calm down, go back to doing whatever the market wants.

Seems to me this ammo thing has evolved into something like what happens in one of those middle east refugee camps. Half million poor souls camped out on the side of a hill when a UN truck shows up with 100 pound bags of rice. The desperate starving masses overwhelm any means of orderly distribution with only a few of the strongest and most aggressive making off with the big bags and everyone else left with an empty sack. That makes the riots even worse the next time.

That vs. a more orderly process like having them all line up single file and giving each of them a 1 pound sack. Same people, same amount of rice, only change is putting some order in place so each at least gets a chance at it.

I'm not saying your a commie, I was saying the idea is. So how should the manufactures handle this? Let's think about it for a moment. Let's look at logistics. This wouldn't just be for ammo. This would be for everything that is in short supply according to your philosophy.
1. What if you live far away from the ammo manufacturer?
2. Do only people that live close enough to this manufacturer get the opportunity to buy it?
3. I assume you want it available to everyone. so now who keeps track of who has bought it?
4. It has to be shipped will it need extra security now to make sure it doesn't get diverted?
5. Do you intend to also regulate what they can make? Allow them to only make what is in high demand?
6. How do we know the people in line to buy it need it?
7. How do we know the person in line is buying for himself?
8. How do we know the guy in line even owns a gun in that caliber?
9. Do we have to investigate everyone in line to buy ammo now to make sure this is fair to everyone?
10. Who gets to pay for all of this security, background checks and sales people devoting their time to this matter?

Last edited by Finster; 01/13/21 08:48 PM.

I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: A big reason why... [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7135372
01/13/21 08:50 PM
01/13/21 08:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,640
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,640
Minnesota
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
just take solace that in the knowledge that billions of rounds making their way to private stashes , eventually people will be full or out of money in the mean time freedom seeds are finding homes.

Freedom Seeds!!!

I Love it!


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: A big reason why... [Re: Finster] #7135375
01/13/21 08:52 PM
01/13/21 08:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,640
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,640
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Finster
Originally Posted by HayDay
Semi related example. Back in Aug, I used my last canning jar lids. Have been watching since and none anywhere in the places that normally sell them. But then remembered a bulk source, made one phone call and picked up 12 doz....at least a 2 year supply for me. So now if I saw a stocker putting lids on the shelf, I'd walk on by and leave for the next guy who is out.

We need to do the same thing....get some ammo in ALL hands.....so folks don't feel compelled to grab it......just because.

So what you are rambling on about throughout your posts is that you think "someone" should regulate who gets to purchase these goods because the demand is high. Everyone should have an equal chance of getting whatever they need. There is a system like that in place. It works flawlessly on paper. It is called Communism You see, that's where the state gets to decide how everyone gets everything equally and we all know how the state is always fair and without corruption so yes, I'm sure we would all be knee deep with ammo and canning supplies if we just let them handle it fairly! crazy

Right You Are Finster


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: A big reason why... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7135421
01/13/21 09:14 PM
01/13/21 09:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 397
sw minn.
Flipper Offline
trapper
Flipper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 397
sw minn.
Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
Should find a buddy that bought up ammo over the last couple years when you dropped the ball and did not. Ask him if you can come to his home when crap hits the fan.

If you don't have a stocked up buddy.....good luck.

Crap hit the fan last week and everybody caved

Re: A big reason why... [Re: Hodagtrapper] #7135578
01/13/21 10:06 PM
01/13/21 10:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 573
Missouri
So when I go to CCi's website, I find they have the same online marketing options as other mail order places like Midway. What they don't have is availability. How can that be when they are the one making the stuff.

All I'm suggesting is they retain enough supply of one product line so when a customer checks, there is a product on CCI's website to buy. Limit 1 per order, plus shipping. That is no different than what Midway has. Same process. The limit of 1 brick (500 rounds), plus shipping is going to satisfy the desperate but discourage the profiteers and hoarders. If not, then CCI is gonna get rich. But I'd think the shipping costs will weed them out. But as long as a product is always available, need to grab anything in sight just because goes away, cause unless CCI is shut down, there is always an option to buy something, albeit more expensive than off the shelf locally.

So compare what seems to be the situation now. CCI claims to be making product as fast as they can, and putting it in the supply chain where nobody seems to know where it goes. I'm not in the industry, so I don't know where it goes, but as an end consumer, I know all my local shelve are bare....and have been for months. Here are some made up example numbers, but concept is all I'm suggesting.

Say CCI sells all product to several wholesale buyers......3 cents per round. Product then goes into the supply chain where it may get handled and resold many times before it surfaces on a shelf.....for 20 cents a round. Suggested retail is 8 cents a round.

What if instead of CCI sending it all out the door for 3 cents, they retain enough to sell at full retail on their own website. They get the 8 cents direct from the end consumer? Instead of sending it out the door in cases on pallets, they slap a shipping label on an individual brick and send it out the door to the post office to be delivered direct to end buyer? CCI gets nearly 3X the price for same product and end consumer gets it for full retail at best but half what some are charging now. Both CCI and end consumer are better off. And CCI can take all the extra profits and use it to expand production. All they are out is the small amount of extra handling at the source.

Only ones getting harmed are those in the middle. whoever that person is, I can see why they would not like it. But until things calm down, seems like a way to calm down the panic buying and get to the point where when you go to the gun shop, there is product on the shelf. Unless that is a bad thing. In the big picture, I'd think we would all be better off if 1,000 guys could get a brick vs 1 guy getting all 1,000 bricks and the other 999 nothing.

I'm set either way.......so makes no difference to me. I'm worried about the big picture.

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