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Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: corky] #7138133
01/15/21 02:43 PM
01/15/21 02:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
"The minimum wage was conceived as a way to help bolster wageworkers and decrease class stratification. It was first introduced in the United States with the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA). Passed under President Roosevelt, this act called for the first national minimum wage of 25 cents an hour. This created a floor on wages in the labor market and overall helped to create fairer labor standards throughout the country.

Classical economic theory suggests that the minimum wage would have a stabilizing effect on the economy. As economist Richard Freeman explains in his 1996 book, Uneven Tides: Rising Inequality in America, there are three main ways that the minimum wage affects income disparity by distributing more earning power to people at the lower end of the economic spectrum. He refers to this as the “redistribution theory.”

The first outcome of increased minimum wages is that the cost of producing goods and services increases, which results in higher prices. These increased prices mean that everyone is paying more for goods, including the middle and upper classes, yet only the lower class is simultaneously increasing its income, thereby increasing the purchasing power of low-wage workers. In addition, higher wages decrease company profits, while simultaneously increasing the income of the poor. Increased wages also cost (some) jobs; often those are on the middle or higher end of the income spectrum. Overall, raising the minimum wage acts to decrease the wealth of the wealthier classes while increasing the wealth of lower paid workers."

Last edited by Dirt; 01/15/21 02:48 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: corky] #7138143
01/15/21 02:52 PM
01/15/21 02:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,501
Wi.
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Diggerman Offline
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Wi.
Why not raise it to $35.00 an hour, Then everyone will be out of poverty, and we will be the richest nation again. Heck , if everyone makes 35 an hour we would be able to afford reparations for the ex slaves and injuns.

Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: Dirt] #7138164
01/15/21 03:05 PM
01/15/21 03:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,548
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by Dirt
"The minimum wage was conceived as a way to help bolster wageworkers and decrease class stratification. It was first introduced in the United States with the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA). Passed under President Roosevelt, this act called for the first national minimum wage of 25 cents an hour. This created a floor on wages in the labor market and overall helped to create fairer labor standards throughout the country.

Classical economic theory suggests that the minimum wage would have a stabilizing effect on the economy. As economist Richard Freeman explains in his 1996 book, Uneven Tides: Rising Inequality in America, there are three main ways that the minimum wage affects income disparity by distributing more earning power to people at the lower end of the economic spectrum. He refers to this as the “redistribution theory.”

The first outcome of increased minimum wages is that the cost of producing goods and services increases, which results in higher prices. These increased prices mean that everyone is paying more for goods, including the middle and upper classes, yet only the lower class is simultaneously increasing its income, thereby increasing the purchasing power of low-wage workers. In addition, higher wages decrease company profits, while simultaneously increasing the income of the poor. Increased wages also cost (some) jobs; often those are on the middle or higher end of the income spectrum. Overall, raising the minimum wage acts to decrease the wealth of the wealthier classes while increasing the wealth of lower paid workers."


They forgot the part about minimum wage was to combat the new source of labor coming into the market at the time...

Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: swift4me] #7138168
01/15/21 03:07 PM
01/15/21 03:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,548
Rodney,Ohio
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Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by swift4me
Cragar....

For years here, every McDonalds uses ordering kiosks. No counter help for ordering.

In 13 years I have eaten at a McDonalds three times, (while travelling through Paris in a train station), and every single time was horrible. Cold food, mushy fries and crappy service. Yet Europe accounts for alot of their profits.

Pete

Did they ever start taxing the robots over there? I remember that being floated to make up for the lost tax revenues

Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: Ric] #7138173
01/15/21 03:09 PM
01/15/21 03:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Ric
As stated above Min Wage was never meant to be a "living wage" what ever that is supposed to be.

You would starve to death in a large metropolitan area on $15/hr. Some rural areas you could be moderately comfortable.

I pay $15 cash for spot labor when I need it, works for them works for me. Although they need to produce, to come back. Some have,some haven't

I think the $15/hr is intended to eliminate as much unreported income as possible. Not to help the down trodden underachievers.There are just not that many min wage jobs anymore.

EX. A local grocery chain has had a sign out for a couple years now, starting wage is $14.65
Fast food services are 12 + to start in this area
Even Mom & Pop grocery's are at 10 +

Firmly believe it's mostly about taxable income



Of course it’s about taxable income. “They” need the money for all the policies they intend to implement. When they can’t get enough taxes through income “they” will come for control of the companies. “They’ve” said so.


-Goofy-
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: Marty B] #7138176
01/15/21 03:13 PM
01/15/21 03:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Marty B
Wait a second are you saying the govt is too stupid to even be a good parasite?


Q- What is as big as a house... Consumes 10 gallons of gas per hour... Produces a crap ton of smoke and noise... And cuts an apple into 3 pieces?

A- A government machine made to cut an apple into 4 pieces.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: Michigander] #7138178
01/15/21 03:14 PM
01/15/21 03:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,951
rogers city mi.
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jeff karsten Offline
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rogers city mi.
Originally Posted by Michigander
Not a problem here in Michigan because eating in a restraunt is illegal.

laugh


olden tyred
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: corky] #7138179
01/15/21 03:14 PM
01/15/21 03:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Magna, Utah
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Magna, Utah
Doubt that most business's have any choice in the matter, either they raise with some sort of tiered program over a set limit of time or they go our of business.

Most already understand that min. wage jobs are stand by jobs to help live, not totally live on ! However it will increase competition for the jobs by some that have no education or where with all to go to school to learn how to work at a living job, pushing most younger people out of work !

Tipping will simply stop for the most part even if prices stay the same because of value of the purchase or the wealth determined of what a person is buying.

Most tip for service on the meal not because of the meal, employers for the most part absorb these tips and then distribute them equally to all in most case's that I'm aware of, which of course only PO's those who are great servers with personality and pay attention to their customers, while the other support group, cooks, table cleaners and cleaners are not given tips, unless shared by the servers. Total chaos for moral if you ask me !

Who ever figured that it would increase the peoples living standards never looked down the road to see how that increase is going to be made up for by the business's, as most costs are always passed on to the buyer in at least food service, other larger business's can absorb that cost for a short time, but not forever, depending on their public interest in their companies.

Might be a simpler way to increase min wage with a lower top wage, for instance $10.00 an hour plus your own tips tiered to a graduated amount on higher end meals, if people want a higher end meal then they pay the higher end tip, guaranteed to go to the server, no business allowed to take tips any more from the servers.

Yes some business's may suffer for their higher end meals, however most people who do go out like to have a great evening and if the meal and service is to their agreement the cost is not really a detriment to that evening out. I would imagine that most eat outs who would do this might make a concerted effort to increase the clientele rather than have just a steady lower class menu.

They could also make server teams that work together and share the tips for a more roundabout effort to keep the place moving. I know when we go out that waiting in a decent place to have a diner usually is a nightmare even when you make a previous reservation as advised, people tend to relax and enjoy a higher end meal than just going to eat a simple dinner, just ideas I feel might work better for both the worker and the business giving the idea that you can't have both if wages are raised !!


[Linked Image]

Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: corky] #7138187
01/15/21 03:19 PM
01/15/21 03:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,951
rogers city mi.
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jeff karsten Offline
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rogers city mi.
What happened to O'bama's minimum wage increase to 15.00 Disappear??? It was big news for awhile but Mc'd's and others dropped employee's hours to under 40 making them part time and eligible for minimum wage


olden tyred
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: corky] #7138198
01/15/21 03:24 PM
01/15/21 03:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by corky
I read that the proposal for raising the minimum wage to $ 15/hr also does away with the tipping minimum wage, currently at $ 2.13/hr. although I don't know of anyone around here paying that. If the typical waitress now getting $6/hr plus tips will now get $ 15/hr will anyone continue to tip at 15-20% of the bill? My wife stated emphatically that we won't and her word is sacred. LOL The price of meals will go up to cover the proprietors cost so less people will eat out. Tip income will go down. The higher wage rate will be verifiable and taxable. Some jobs will be lost. I don't see many winners here.

I'd be fine with tipping being done away with. I shouldn't have to bribe someone to give me decent service.

Will prices at restaurants go up? Absolutely and I'm fine with that. If you can't afford to go out to eat then don't just like the rest of the world.

Its also a misnomer that they only get paid $2.13/hr. That is merely their base wage. If they do not make the equivalent of minimum wage per hour including tips, the establishment needs to cover the difference.

Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: Pike River] #7138210
01/15/21 03:31 PM
01/15/21 03:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,126
McGrath, AK
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white17 Online content

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McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Pike River

I'd be fine with tipping being done away with. I shouldn't have to bribe someone to give me decent service.




I look at tipping as the ultimate reflection of merit. The better the service the better the tip. Everything should be that way IMO.

Originally Posted by Pike River


Will prices at restaurants go up? Absolutely and I'm fine with that. If you can't afford to go out to eat then don't just like the rest of the world.




So if prices go up and customer traffic goes down.......should the restaurant raise their prices even more to make up the difference ?


Mean As Nails
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: Pike River] #7138215
01/15/21 03:32 PM
01/15/21 03:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline
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Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Pike River
Originally Posted by corky
I read that the proposal for raising the minimum wage to $ 15/hr also does away with the tipping minimum wage, currently at $ 2.13/hr. although I don't know of anyone around here paying that. If the typical waitress now getting $6/hr plus tips will now get $ 15/hr will anyone continue to tip at 15-20% of the bill? My wife stated emphatically that we won't and her word is sacred. LOL The price of meals will go up to cover the proprietors cost so less people will eat out. Tip income will go down. The higher wage rate will be verifiable and taxable. Some jobs will be lost. I don't see many winners here.

I'd be fine with tipping being done away with. I shouldn't have to bribe someone to give me decent service.

Will prices at restaurants go up? Absolutely and I'm fine with that. If you can't afford to go out to eat then don't just like the rest of the world.

Its also a misnomer that they only get paid $2.13/hr. That is merely their base wage. If they do not make the equivalent of minimum wage per hour including tips, the establishment needs to cover the difference.


If you get paid the same amount whether you provide marginal service or excellent service... What's the incentive to provide excellent service?

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: corky] #7138217
01/15/21 03:33 PM
01/15/21 03:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
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Northern Maine
Most waitresses their tip money is mostly how they get paid.Very low hourly wage.


Nevada bound
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: corky] #7138240
01/15/21 03:42 PM
01/15/21 03:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Northeast Oklahoma
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In her younger days my wife was a waitress at the local hoity-toity lakeside resort... With tips she would clear on average $1000 a week. She worked her butt off and was well compensated for it. A straight $15 an hour wage would have been a 36% pay cut. Taxes would cut it even more.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: corky] #7138246
01/15/21 03:45 PM
01/15/21 03:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,548
Rodney,Ohio
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Rodney,Ohio
If you can't make more than min wage as a waiter...you either are horrible at it or your restaurant attracts a bunch off jerks.

Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: white17] #7138256
01/15/21 03:53 PM
01/15/21 03:53 PM
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Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by Pike River

I'd be fine with tipping being done away with. I shouldn't have to bribe someone to give me decent service.




I look at tipping as the ultimate reflection of merit. The better the service the better the tip. Everything should be that way IMO.

Originally Posted by Pike River


Will prices at restaurants go up? Absolutely and I'm fine with that. If you can't afford to go out to eat then don't just like the rest of the world.




So if prices go up and customer traffic goes down.......should the restaurant raise their prices even more to make up the difference ?

Whatever changes they decide.

Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: hippie] #7138258
01/15/21 03:54 PM
01/15/21 03:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
pa
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I just looked up Juniata county Pa. and our per capita income on the U.S. census website to make sure I wasn't overstating...

Our per capita income is 26,200 a year, or 12.60 an hour wage.

Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: corky] #7138260
01/15/21 03:55 PM
01/15/21 03:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,126
McGrath, AK
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white17 Online content

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If an increase in prices results in a decrease of customers, I suspect the most likely change would be to shut their doors. Who benefits from that ?


Mean As Nails
Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: Mike in A-town] #7138262
01/15/21 03:56 PM
01/15/21 03:56 PM
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Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
Originally Posted by Pike River

I'd be fine with tipping being done away with. I shouldn't have to bribe someone to give me decent service.

Will prices at restaurants go up? Absolutely and I'm fine with that. If you can't afford to go out to eat then don't just like the rest of the world.

Its also a misnomer that they only get paid $2.13/hr. That is merely their base wage. If they do not make the equivalent of minimum wage per hour including tips, the establishment needs to cover the difference.


If you get paid the same amount whether you provide marginal service or excellent service... What's the incentive to provide excellent service?

Mike

Those of use that aren't self-employed are pretty much paid that way. If I'm providing good service to my client which increases my employer's bottom line, an employer with a decent head on their shoulders would increase my wage because its partly because of my excellent labor that is keeping clients spending money.

Re: Unintended Consequences Minimum Wage [Re: white17] #7138265
01/15/21 03:59 PM
01/15/21 03:59 PM
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Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by white17
If an increase in prices results in a decrease of customers, I suspect the most likely change would be to shut their doors. Who benefits from that ?


How would doing away with tipping decrease customers?

I go out for dinner and spend $40 on the meal. I leave a 20% tip meaning that the total experience cost me $48.

Well....the establishment raises their prices by 20% to meet the high wage, I pay the same price. Also the establishment would more than likely become more profitable because the server is working 8 tables. It cost them $15/hr for 1 server for a $64 increase in revenue.

Last edited by Pike River; 01/15/21 04:01 PM.
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