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Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150049
01/22/21 07:45 PM
01/22/21 07:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,031
PA
M
marathonman Online content
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marathonman  Online Content
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Posts: 3,031
PA
God Bless you Vinke ..I can't imagine...let the Lord be with you...

Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150056
01/22/21 07:55 PM
01/22/21 07:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,097
South Ga - Almost Florida
S
Swamp Wolf Offline
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Swamp Wolf  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,097
South Ga - Almost Florida
Another possible factor: if the body is in stream that is tidal influenced there is a tendacy for a floating object to move further upstream than down. Not sure why, but have seen it twice over the years. One victim floated almost 5 miles upstream from point that he entered water in a tidal river that didnt have a strong current, but 3 to 4 feet swings in tide. This individual was already dead when he entered water and never sank. He drifted just under surface with current immediately upon entering the water. Took 2.5 days for him to be pushed that far by incoming tide. We guessed that he would hang up on debris on the outgoing tides.


Thank God For Your Blessings!
Never Half-Arse Anything!

Resource Protection Service

Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Boco] #7150059
01/22/21 07:57 PM
01/22/21 07:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,243
NWWA/AZ
Vinke Offline OP
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Vinke  Offline OP
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NWWA/AZ
Originally Posted by Boco
What was she wearing.
Call it off until spring then she will turn up in the closest backwater


nope we will hunt for her untill the day i die if need be. On a better note we river is full of beaver. Once she is home "castor smashing"


Slightly used Shoes 4 sale……………
Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7150068
01/22/21 08:10 PM
01/22/21 08:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
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SJA  Offline
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Western Shore Delaware
Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
Another possible factor: if the body is in stream that is tidal influenced there is a tendacy for a floating object to move further upstream than down. Not sure why, but have seen it twice over the years. One victim floated almost 5 miles upstream from point that he entered water in a tidal river that didnt have a strong current, but 3 to 4 feet swings in tide. This individual was already dead when he entered water and never sank. He drifted just under surface with current immediately upon entering the water. Took 2.5 days for him to be pushed that far by incoming tide. We guessed that he would hang up on debris on the outgoing tides.


Just for the record currents move in and out. Tides go up and down. Generally, currents run approx. 1/3 of the water's depth. Below that depth of current, an object will generally sink to the bottom and lift several inches off.


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150075
01/22/21 08:17 PM
01/22/21 08:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 395
wyoming
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WyFurHarvesters Offline
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wyoming
A good cadaver dog can smell body gases coming up from down stream. I have seen them find bodies twice when divers and drag lines could not. Prayers sent

Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150078
01/22/21 08:18 PM
01/22/21 08:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
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Bob_Iowa Offline
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North central Iowa
Maybe macthediver can help you, I thought he said he had training in this.

Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: SJA] #7150079
01/22/21 08:19 PM
01/22/21 08:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,097
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Swamp Wolf Offline
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Swamp Wolf  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
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South Ga - Almost Florida
Originally Posted by SJA
Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
Another possible factor: if the body is in stream that is tidal influenced there is a tendacy for a floating object to move further upstream than down. Not sure why, but have seen it twice over the years. One victim floated almost 5 miles upstream from point that he entered water in a tidal river that didnt have a strong current, but 3 to 4 feet swings in tide. This individual was already dead when he entered water and never sank. He drifted just under surface with current immediately upon entering the water. Took 2.5 days for him to be pushed that far by incoming tide. We guessed that he would hang up on debris on the outgoing tides.


Just for the record currents move in and out. Tides go up and down. Generally, currents run approx. 1/3 of the water's depth. Below that depth of current, an object will generally sink to the bottom and lift several inches off.

Currents in and out....tides up and down. Isn't that what I said. On the Ga coast the incoming tide pushes water in and outgoing tide pulls water out. Not sure about the current only being 1/3 of water depth. Wonder how that works where tides pull all the water out and then back in...6 hours turnaround. The incident I referenced occurred about 25 straight line miles inland from ocean. Double that distance by river but still tidal influenced.

Again, this was in a river about 300 yds wide....


Last edited by Swamp Wolf; 01/22/21 08:25 PM. Reason: Spelling

Thank God For Your Blessings!
Never Half-Arse Anything!

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Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150089
01/22/21 08:26 PM
01/22/21 08:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,384
WI
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BvrRetriever Online content
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Posts: 1,384
WI
Something similar happened a few years back near me. I think the cadaver dog made a hit on the river but nothing was found at that time. The next day, someone went searching and found the body a bit further down stream. I think it was quite a ways from where they jumped off the bridge but this was flooding conditions in spring.

If a dog is available, I would highly recommend using it.

Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150105
01/22/21 08:33 PM
01/22/21 08:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
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SJA  Offline
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Western Shore Delaware
I'm sure you already have this info, but just in case, most fire companies, Natural Resource Depts., and Police have trained recovery personnel. Cadaver dogs are "questionable" they attempt to scent body oils in the air or water surface. It's a hit or miss.


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150132
01/22/21 08:47 PM
01/22/21 08:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,185
St. James, Missouri
Bigbuck Offline
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Bigbuck  Offline
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St. James, Missouri
Back 42 years ago when I was in 10th grade there was 2 brother very good friends of mine tip their canoe over in our reservoir Feb. 3rd which was about 25'-30' deep. The water temperature was about 40 degrees at the time. We looked for days trying to find them with no luck. They had divers come in to help but could not find them. Their dad quit his job and would look from day break till dark every day with his boat & motor. Finally on day 27 he found the 1st boy (Matt) and then on day 29 their uncle found the 2nd boy (Ben) 70 yards away from the 1st boy.


A long hair country boy can survive
Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150232
01/22/21 09:50 PM
01/22/21 09:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,113
Manitoba
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Northof50 Offline
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Northof50  Offline
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Posts: 8,113
Manitoba
42 * f the body floats in 8-10 days depends on the body fat conditions

dog in a bow of a boat

sonar
After several Manitoba Hutterite kids were drown in swimming mishaps now they have a full recovery mission team, two large boats and 6 man Zodiacs with underwater gear to see them with sonar. Most recovery operations have only been hours not days of searching.

I feal your pain

Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150256
01/22/21 10:06 PM
01/22/21 10:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 761
minnesota
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gman Offline
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minnesota
Body will stay down in water that cold for extended time. Decomp gases will build but will be slow. Took 2 months for a 275 lb man to float here in southern Ga. He went down in early January....recovered him in early March. And temps when he went down was low 20s. Water temps in upper 40s. Body size/composition/last meal will factor in to float time, but that cold water will slow it all way down.....like food in a fridge...it'll take a while to go bad.


Spot on!!!

Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: gman] #7150275
01/22/21 10:17 PM
01/22/21 10:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,751
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Central, SD
Originally Posted by gman
Body will stay down in water that cold for extended time. Decomp gases will build but will be slow. Took 2 months for a 275 lb man to float here in southern Ga. He went down in early January....recovered him in early March. And temps when he went down was low 20s. Water temps in upper 40s. Body size/composition/last meal will factor in to float time, but that cold water will slow it all way down.....like food in a fridge...it'll take a while to go bad.


Spot on!!!



This depending on temps a body will not travel as much as you think it will even with a strong current.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150278
01/22/21 10:22 PM
01/22/21 10:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,097
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Swamp Wolf Offline
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South Ga - Almost Florida
These incidents are terrible on the family and friends. I cant remember details of all I have been involved with from children to elderly victims/ponds to rivers/ boat crashes to swimmer drownings. But I do remember speaking with and updating the families.....stressful on this ol game warden.

Prayers to you Vinke and especially your friend and his family.


Thank God For Your Blessings!
Never Half-Arse Anything!

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Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7150287
01/22/21 10:28 PM
01/22/21 10:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
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SJA  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
[quote=Swamp Wolf]These incidents are terrible on the family and friends. I cant remember details of all I have been involved with from children to elderly victims/ponds to rivers/ boat crashes to swimmer drownings. But I do remember speaking with and updating the families.....stressful on this ol game warden.

Children are the most tragic and heart breaking recoveries, mostly due to negligence and inattention of the parents or guardians. Recovery of a child is something that will haunt you the rest of your life. :-(


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: SJA] #7150329
01/22/21 10:56 PM
01/22/21 10:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,243
NWWA/AZ
Vinke Offline OP
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Vinke  Offline OP
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NWWA/AZ
i
Originally Posted by SJA
[quote=Swamp Wolf]These incidents are terrible on the family and friends. I cant remember details of all I have been involved with from children to elderly victims/ponds to rivers/ boat crashes to swimmer drownings. But I do remember speaking with and updating the families.....stressful on this ol game warden.

Children are the most tragic and heart breaking recoveries, mostly due to negligence and inattention of the parents or guardians. Recovery of a child is something that will haunt you the rest of your life. :-(


this not case hear.
Parents have been there ALWAYS


Slightly used Shoes 4 sale……………
Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150337
01/22/21 11:02 PM
01/22/21 11:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,190
MN
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Mark K Offline
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MN
When I was a kid a couple guys drove their canoe through the canoe grinder at Dink's Dam. Dink's Dam is at the southern mark on the map. They found the body of one behind my house marked by the top mark. I remember the commotion and that none of the neighborhood kids were allowed to go down to see what was going on. The dude went quite a ways.

Sometime in the 90's another dude went missing in the river. Same spot I found a pair of waders and grabbed it. It was mushy with something long and hard in the mush. What a horrible feeling.

What a relief when it turned out to be a stick inside. Perfect size for a leg bone though.

I hope you don't find her personally. I hope a stranger actually finds her. I hope he finds her soon, but I hope you do not have to feel that horrible feeling.

I did find one in the river, but that is for another day.[Linked Image]

Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150352
01/22/21 11:14 PM
01/22/21 11:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
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SJA  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Western Shore Delaware
Originally Posted by Vinke
i
Originally Posted by SJA
[quote=Swamp Wolf]These incidents are terrible on the family and friends. I cant remember details of all I have been involved with from children to elderly victims/ponds to rivers/ boat crashes to swimmer drownings. But I do remember speaking with and updating the families.....stressful on this ol game warden.

Children are the most tragic and heart breaking recoveries, mostly due to negligence and inattention of the parents or guardians. Recovery of a child is something that will haunt you the rest of your life. :-(


this not case hear.
Parents have been there ALWAYS


Vinke, I believe you missed my point.


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150419
01/23/21 12:14 AM
01/23/21 12:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,056
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline
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Ky
The newest fish finding equipment can help . Find someone that has the garmin live scope with down imaging on a flat bottom. Lowrance and humming bird have the same technologies but don't know the names of them. SCARY what you can see and the detail. My buddy has the garmin and we located a tire and rim on the bottom and you could see the lug bolt holes in the rim at 15 ft deep. Just a thought.

Re: searching in a river give me some advice [Re: Vinke] #7150429
01/23/21 12:23 AM
01/23/21 12:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 120
Chandler,Indiana USA
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Netman Offline
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Chandler,Indiana USA
I’m a retired LEO that worked on the Ohio river here in Indiana. I was also a river diver for many years with many recovery’s. Most of the important information has already been given to you in the above replies.
If I was to start looking I would drag the area last seen. Second I would look in eddy’s or around them. I would look in sharp river bends. Places you see debris built up. Watch for crows or buzzards. If the river has dropped look in a boat then scour the bank.
Do a media release and get a television crew to film your efforts.
When the average joe is riding around in his boat and see’s a red piece of clothing if he is informed of the recovery he will go look and see what the red thing is. If he’s unaware he will fly on by in his boat. You want boaters out looking for the body the day the internal gas decides to float the body.
Meet up with the Game Warden or Water Patrol and ask them for help and suggestions. People are willing to help they just need to know what to do.
I wish you luck and sorry to hear this.

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