I do support our American safety net system. This system provides for greater stability and strength. It is flawed no doubt but overall I support it. I am of a mind of a "hand up" rather than a "hand out".

So reading some statutes this morning and I came across vagrancy. Below is the full text. Section 1, if enforced I think would be good for society in general, provided that society also creates a path forward. I'm including all 3 sections because its obvious it was written in a different time and it stirs my imagination.

947.02  Vagrancy. Any of the following are vagrants and are guilty of a Class C misdemeanor:
(1) A person, with the physical ability to work, who is without lawful means of support and does not seek employment; or
(3) A prostitute who loiters on the streets or in a place where intoxicating liquors are sold, or a person who, in public, solicits another to commit a crime against sexual morality; or
(4) A person known to be a professional gambler or known as a frequenter of gambling places or who derives part of his or her support from begging or as a fortune teller or similar impostor.

ACLU

I wonder if they're scared to challenge the constitutionality of these statutes hence why they're still on the books.

Somehow a crime has become a lifestyle choice.

You lost me at supporting welfare.

Then you must've not understood the difference between a hand up and hand out.

We've been hearing that hand up propaganda for decades.

Eliminate all welfare first. Then I'll talk about limited and actual hand up programs.

It’s alive and well.

It must have been enforced during the Great Depression because- I remember my parents telling me... "you have to have $2 in your pocket or you'll get picked up for vagrancy"

Those laws got shelved way back in the hippie days.
When enough of the public just ignore laws it becomes too burdensome to enforce choking up the judicial system,and eventually they will get removed from the statute.

John Rambo got arrested for vagrancy. He just wanted something to eat.

... he got a free shower though

No law about being broke is what it broke down to.

I wish that were true. Instead they just make more laws.

https://billsoderberg.com/excerpts-from-philosophy-texts/plato-on-wisdom-courage-and-temperance/

Socrates proceeds: But where amid all this is justice? Son of Ariston, tell me where. Light a candle and search the city, and get your brother and the rest of our friends to help in seeking for her. ‘That won’t do,’ replied Glaucon, ‘you yourself promised to make the search and talked about the impiety of deserting justice.’ Well, I said, I will lead the way, but do you follow. My notion is, that our State being perfect will contain all the four virtues—wisdom, courage, temperance, justice. If we eliminate the three first, the unknown remainder will be justice.

Here is snippet from the above web page. I know many want to make world decisions based on 10 seconds of information, so maybe they will soak up a little from it at least. I think Plato was big on justice and not so much on Wisdom. While I don't think we can have forgiveness without justice, justice without wisdom,courage, and temperance would be pretty ruthless. Which isn't so bad I guess as long as its the other guy.

This, like many laws, should not exist. The government has no place telling me I have to have a job. Deny unemployment benefits, sure, but if someone chooses to find alternative means to survive rather than work a 9-5 it’s none of the governments business. Neither is it their business if someone makes their living gambling or prostituting. The only reason those are illegal is because it goes against Christianity, and last I checked the United States constitution guarantees us freedom of religion, so the government has no right to impose Christian values upon us.

Those laws were made in different times for different reasons mainly to keep the undesirables moving out of your town. Back then if you were not productive you were seen as destructive mostly.

My dad was a bum during the depression. Rode the rails.

Of course that was different than being a vagrant. But he did enjoy many a bowl of hot soup provided by the do-gooders. He also sought work and paid for food and lodging by doing odd jobs around the country. This was during the beginning of the depression and many of the social programs came along later.

Just before he passed in 1998 I asked him what had been his favorite time on this earth. Without hesitation he said it was those years on the road when he didn't know where his next meal would come from or which fork of the road he would take. He loved the freedom of it all.

They had their own codes and symbols on the routes to know what they could get where and where not to go. Most transient people today are mentally ill or have substance abuse issues most not all.

What values should we use