Who said anything about making you do anything? Nobody. Do what you want, some of us just care about the impact our choices have on others. If you don’t, then this is America last I checked so you’re free to consume as much as you like.

so, we'll have a choice whether or not to pay the carbon tax on gasoline? Cool!

I think you are off track here. I never said anything about taxing anything. The discussion is about viable forms of power and wether renewables can be as good as fossil fuels. We’re discussing the merits and drawbacks of different power systems here, not implementing regulations. I personally don’t think the government has any place regulating how we use power or taxing us premiums for using a certain type.

When I said “movement” I meant a collective effort by the people, not having some “green new deal” shoved down our throats.

that's not what our Dear Leaders are implementing...

You honestly think the government is going to keep their hands out of it? Dream on.

No, I don’t think that, the government never keeps their nose out of our business, but that’s not the discussion I’m trying to have here.

Without the government subsidizing solar and wind, there wouldn't be any. The real problem here are, as usual, the hypocrites. Tell us, how many miles does your electric trapping vehicle get between charges? How long do the solar panels on your house take to recharge your car? How much electric do you put back on the grid? How do you heat your home? Burning wood is a big 'ole carbon footprint ya know. How do you keep your food cold? Have a root cellar? You typing on the cell phone or a puter? You sit there and enjoy all of the benefits of this modern life and then pretend that it's killing mother earth and try to chastise others. You are the purest form of hypocrite.

Finster, maybe I am a hypocrite, but at least I’m willing to try to find new ways to do things better, instead of just yelling about why it will never work.

It's called being a realist.

It’s called being afraid to try new things

Not wasting my time and money on obvious failures. Someday when you have to earn a living, you will understand.

Sure am glad the people who invented all the things you like so much weren’t afraid of failure like you are. If not for trying things that people thought were “obvious failures” there wouldn’t be electricity or fossil fuels and we wouldn’t be having this discussion

We can go back and fourth all day. Why don't you start putting your money where your mouth is? Stop being a complete hypocrite, sell your car, get an electric one, put solar panels on your roof, dig a root cellar, get completely off the grid. You're wasting all of this energy typing on the internet. How much carbon are you putting into the air every time you hit the enter key? Until then your not even "trying anything new" you're just babbling about it and trying to sound superior in a truly pathetic manner. The only thing that you are proving is your hypocrisy.

Burning wood is actually considered carbon neutral.

When the technology gets cheap enough in a few years I very likely will have an electric vehicle, or at least hybrid, I can’t justify $50,000 for one but they’ll get cheaper. This summer I’ll be building a house with its own well, and it will be powered by renewables as much as possible. Only reason I didn’t do it last summer is cause I couldn’t get my other house sold and I can’t afford to have both. When that house sells I’m going to buy 20-40 acres and as soon as the well is in I’m going to plant 5,000+ trees on it, as well as a large garden to be more self sufficient. I had planned on doing all of it last year but since my house didn’t sell I couldn’t afford to, because I don’t borrow money, and I certainly don’t get any handouts.

You think you got me figured out, but you don’t know me. You’re just afraid of change

Big dreams and talk is cheap.

Good luck, Bob. Hope it all works out for you.
And I think this horse has been beat beyond dead.

I got a long time left on earth, plenty to achieve all my “big dreams”. You’ll see, things are gonna be a lot different in the world sooner than you think. Or maybe you won’t see, you’ll keep your eyes and mind closed like they are now

Finster likes to keep his mind closed. The world is much too big for him.