Marten/fisher box
#7160935
01/29/21 06:24 PM
01/29/21 06:24 PM
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ADK95
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Hi folks! Would anyone be willing to critique my box? I've got 40 of these tubes so I'd like some input before cutting into all of them. Slats are 5/8 inch wide... they seem snug enough to hold the trap well when cranked down but not tight enough to hinder the trap firing. The holes on the sides and back are 3/8 inch. Marten are the main target so belisle 120s were my choice. I've chosen to use the expandapan conipan in order to open things up a bit since there are also plenty of fisher in the area.... I'm not quite sold on it though. I've only picked up a couple of traps and pans so far, so don't hesitate to suggest something different. The only thing I'm really committed to at this point are the paper tubes- They're light weight and stack super snug which is important for my situation. Please feel free to rip these apart... I've got plenty of time and want to consider everything. Thanks a ton!
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: bctomcat]
#7161024
01/29/21 07:18 PM
01/29/21 07:18 PM
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ADK95
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I would cut the spring slots deeper so you can set your trap 4-6 inches in front of the bait at back. In this situation the animal is stable at the bait, not moving thru or jumping over the pan going to the bait. Oh right on! I'll try that out. I'm not sure how much farther I can set that trap with the taper of the boxes but I'm sure I could get at least another couple inches. Thanks!
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: Ringbill5196]
#7161887
01/30/21 10:33 AM
01/30/21 10:33 AM
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ADK95
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I dont cut them deeper than that. I want to catch the ones that choose not to go all the way to the back of the box. Especially if I use them on mink.
Appears you have the 155 size tube. The 120 tubes are snug. I Use 155 size traps in that size box, but I doubt it would effect much.
I use wood pans or corrugated plastic from campaign signs. I get a lot of weasels in them and believe they increase my catch. Oh didn't think about that. I doubt too many marten would hesitate, but I'm sure fisher would... Some recommend flipping that trap around so the more sensitive part of that expandapan is facing the entrance. Thoughts? For me, marten trapping is restricted to just a couple weeks so I'd like to better my chances the best I can, but I'd rather not end up with poor catches either.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: bearcat2]
#7161899
01/30/21 10:39 AM
01/30/21 10:39 AM
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ADK95
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I know quite few people use newspaper boxes but I've never known where you get them. I'm assuming you don't just gather them up along the road at night. How are you hooking them to the tree? Just a nail at the front of the box? If you cut a bunch of strips of wood/plywood the right width for the jaws of the trap to fit snugly over and then screw them to another strip of wood in a T shape you can use that to hold the box and the trap both without even needing notches, although I think the notches are a good idea, myself. If you'd like the info, shoot me a PM. I have a wonderful contact at continental products! I love that anchoring idea! I actually intend on setting these on the ground though. We can't have critters suspended in NY, even with body grips so there isn't a whole lot of benefit to setting in trees. That's partly why I chose 120s, a 5x5 trap is the largest we can have on the ground. I just prefer those belisle 120s over any of the 155s I've seen. This being said... I do plan on staking them with a tbar right through the middle of the box... just to help it remain solid on the ground.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: 080808]
#7161941
01/30/21 11:15 AM
01/30/21 11:15 AM
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ADK95
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I believe in NY you can go larger than 120/155 above ground as long as a caught animal is not suspended.. I.e. chain or wire allowing captured animal to fall to the ground. Oh yes! But they need to be at least 4 feet up. Personally, I just don't see a huge advantage of having a 160 or 220 4 feet up vs a 120/150 on the ground. My opinion would probably be different if they could be suspended to prevent damage though.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7165259
02/01/21 03:55 PM
02/01/21 03:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,513 Kanabec Cty, MN
Drakej
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If you want bait close to trap without trap deep in tube cut tube in half and cover back opening with 1/4" screen. Cut tab around screen that can be folded over outride of tube and screw them down with short wafer head screws(2 each tab). I screw two 3" wood screws up thru bottom of the about 1" from back to spike bait onto, they also keep tubes from nesting too tight that screen locks them together. Standard tube front half fits 155's and back half(not screened) fits 110's(I use for mink'mrats). Super tubes fit 160 F/155B. This is of coarse if you can meet any trap opening/setback regs you have.
I've learned enough thru the years to now know that I don't know enough. KNOWLEDGE IS FREEDOM.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7165373
02/01/21 06:49 PM
02/01/21 06:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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Forget about that plastic junk and make yourself some sturdy wooden boxes with worn out beaver boards and 1 inch rough lumber.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: Northof50]
#7165410
02/01/21 07:36 PM
02/01/21 07:36 PM
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bctomcat
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if you look at BCtomcats at his trap placement. These are rotating jaw traps and have to rotate to go off. When you put them at the back of the box they spring forward and not an ideal capture.
Correction; when the springs are put back against the end of the slots they wiil spring forward and may results in poor catches. Placing your trap spring an inch to 1 1/2 inch before the end of the slot will greatly reduce the propelling of the trap by the spring. Yet, when the trap is fired the springs will still hit the end of the slots without losing significant striking power or jumping over the animal. The position of the trap in the picture previously shown results in a perfect humane strike every time, as shown in the catch pictures.
Last edited by bctomcat; 02/01/21 07:37 PM.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: Boco]
#7165414
02/01/21 07:38 PM
02/01/21 07:38 PM
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3 Fingers
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Forget about that plastic junk and make yourself some sturdy wooden boxes with worn out beaver boards and 1 inch rough lumber. I much prefer wood boxes but rarely use them because I have to bring them all in each season or bears destroy them.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7165555
02/01/21 09:18 PM
02/01/21 09:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,513 Kanabec Cty, MN
Drakej
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Yes, wood boxes might be nicer but if you have haul them with all your other needed gear long distance to put out for a six day season(now slightly longer for us) and have to pull them back in because most are on public lands it is nice to have three compact stacks of 12 tubes(and storing them till next season). I have tubes over twenty years used. Each trapper has to choose logistics that can work for them best.
I've learned enough thru the years to now know that I don't know enough. KNOWLEDGE IS FREEDOM.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7165573
02/01/21 09:28 PM
02/01/21 09:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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Never have much trouble with bears as long as you drop the bait on the last run-and our area is likely the highest density of bears in North America. Occasionally have trouble with bears in the odd year they are out late in November.But wooden boxes can easily be made bearproof by utilizing a bait plate.cant do that with plastic box. You couldnt pay me to use plastic marten box-the bait dont like them,the traps dont like them,the weather dont like them and the marten dont like them either. Worst of all plastic doesnt belong in the bush,and is out of place there.
Last edited by Boco; 02/01/21 09:30 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: Drakej]
#7165579
02/01/21 09:31 PM
02/01/21 09:31 PM
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ADK95
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Yes, wood boxes might be nicer but if you have haul them with all your other needed gear long distance to put out for a six day season(now slightly longer for us) and have to pull them back in because most are on public lands it is nice to have three compact stacks of 12 tubes(and storing them till next season). I have tubes over twenty years used. Each trapper has to choose logistics that can work for them best. Would you be willing share some pictures of your boxes? You really nailed it for me... marten trapping is quite the venture out of town. It's about a 5 hour trip and we've got 48 hour checks so I'm really limited to just a few days off of work. Lightweight and easy is my #1 priority while still ensuring good humane catches. It's all public land as well so I can't leave anything when I'm done. I like wood boxes, but they just aren't practical.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: bctomcat]
#7165584
02/01/21 09:34 PM
02/01/21 09:34 PM
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ADK95
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if you look at BCtomcats at his trap placement. These are rotating jaw traps and have to rotate to go off. When you put them at the back of the box they spring forward and not an ideal capture.
Correction; when the springs are put back against the end of the slots they wiil spring forward and may results in poor catches. Placing your trap spring an inch to 1 1/2 inch before the end of the slot will greatly reduce the propelling of the trap by the spring. Yet, when the trap is fired the springs will still hit the end of the slots without losing significant striking power or jumping over the animal. The position of the trap in the picture previously shown results in a perfect humane strike every time, as shown in the catch pictures. I very much appreciate the input! I'll be cutting my slots deeper in the future. Glad I made this post before cutting all of them.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: Boco]
#7165586
02/01/21 09:37 PM
02/01/21 09:37 PM
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ADK95
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Worst of all plastic doesnt belong in the bush,and is out of place there. Can't argue with you there, Boco! I appreciate your feedback. Wood would be nice, but it's just not practical for me. Boxes are only out in the woods for a week or so, then they're back in storage for a couple years between trips. Hopefully the marten don't hate them too much.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7165796
02/02/21 12:17 AM
02/02/21 12:17 AM
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alaska viking
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BCTomcat is spot on. I have used flower pots on snowshoe lines with some success, but lots of refusals, newspaper tubes, with limited success, but now use plywood boxes almost exclusively, for marten
Just doing what I want now.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7165851
02/02/21 01:52 AM
02/02/21 01:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,513 Kanabec Cty, MN
Drakej
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All my boxes are at my cabin. If I get up there soon I will post one. We are allowed only two fisher and/or marten so for the groups I've trapped marten with(which are limited to only the NE region of state in any number) getting gear to them is a bigger issue for most than catching them. We have no bear issues during our season and many prefer to set boxes on ground rather than hang. Our track experience has never shown an issue of animals refusing tubes(with the exception of traps set with "V" triggers) only animals jumping over pan triggers if bait is far back in tube. . This hasn't happened with circle triggers or bait moved up close to trap with pan. Even have caught a few bobcats in them marten trapping so they can't be that repulsive. A tube placed in the woods for six days is of no environmental concern. Getting three dozen tubes on the trailer in the place of one dozen boxes for me is(especially if you have several trappers group trapping together for the experience). I tried nesting wood boxes some but they were very difficult to build and only lasted a few years.
I have also slipped the front half of a cut tube into the front half and fastened together to shorten tubes but even that turned out to be a little long IMO. Half tubes not only doubles the number of "cubbies" but gets the trap right up the bait so when animal works it they stand right on pan. Have turned trap over in slots to have pan up top so when working bait animal hits it with head but as we are allowed so few it hasn't proved to be a great advantage(but does work). Circle triggers are showing about 25% better catch.
I forgot to mention we do cut the bottom front out about half way so animal isn't stepping on plastic to get to bait, use black only tubes and camouflage outside with whatever covering is available(usually evergreen branches).
Our biggest problems Is getting an animal TO the tube within the very short season window we have. If we can get them there we seldom don't have them commit. iT's not a matter of tube or box for us.
We do have Lynx exclusion regs to deal with in some area with 160's on ground but the tube in tube with the super tube size lets you set back a 160 deep enough be legal and opening can be reduced as well with a cross stick.
I've learned enough thru the years to now know that I don't know enough. KNOWLEDGE IS FREEDOM.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7166158
02/02/21 11:49 AM
02/02/21 11:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,513 Kanabec Cty, MN
Drakej
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If the wire boxes are collapsable both are methods are space savers. As we are not allowed to suspend trapped animals(attachment has to long enough to reach ground) setting on ground is faster/easier than hanging the "cubby". Our best producing set locations are under root balls, heavy blow downs, edges of large boulders, etc where suspending would be very time consuming(if even possible) so ground setting works best. Here wire boxes could lead to "legal" issues with CO's as "exposed bait" if not well hidden with some type of covering. Know many trappers here that catch their limit equally consistently with boxes, tubes, plant pots and wire enclosures. We've tried them all and wood hasn't shown any advantage over plastic to us. But their compact storage, durability, ease of cleaning(we dip ours each season in skunk dip formula to remove some of the quill smell to keep the wives happier) are for us. I also have a ready free supply of them from finding them while doing ditch picking service projects with our Boy Scouts over the years.
Not implying any advantage to tubes but our catch success has proven to us that they aren't any disadvantage from wood either. Getting whatever you choose into the targets "path" of travel is our challenge.
I've learned enough thru the years to now know that I don't know enough. KNOWLEDGE IS FREEDOM.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7166196
02/02/21 12:32 PM
02/02/21 12:32 PM
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The Beav
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My Canuck buddy builds his marten fisher boxes out of slab wood the bottom Is covered with hardware cloth and the box Is nailed on the side of the tree. And no more then 4' off of the ground. He baits with beaver meat. The screen bottom allows the birds to hang on the screen to eat at the bait. The crumbs off the meat drop to the ground which In turn draw In mice and voles which In turn draw In the marten and fisher. It must work because the time I trapped with him we caught 50 some marten and I was only there for a few weeks.
The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7169276
02/04/21 05:44 PM
02/04/21 05:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,513 Kanabec Cty, MN
Drakej
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Here are the moded tubes we use. The magnum tube is for our lynx zone regs with set back and opening size for "on the ground" 160 setting(first box photo doesn't have the holes in sides that is detailed later for stick to run thru box to restrict front opening size to reg). As 160 springs are tight against back of 8" notch( also as deep back as a 160 will go in) we attach a small piece of 3/4" alum angle to keep strong springs from damaging box. Because animal has to travel so far into box we remove some floor so they are stepping on ground. Note trigger dog cut out in bottom, as trap is very tight that far back in tube it is needed to allow trigger to fire when set dog down(pans, circle triggers). The standard tube(cut just about in half) allows enough space under trap(155 or 120) for trigger dog when spring are bent down pushing trap tight to top for added stability. Both halves will fit 155s but back half is not as rigid in opening so I use them on mink/mrat line(like pocket poppers). Being able to get trap right up to bait, has eliminated the times when marten have gotten over trigger pan to be able to work bait behind trap and back out(doesn't happen often but who wants to miss any). Also like tight 1/2" slot to better told trap springs(3/4" for 160's). Again the biggest pro of tubes(moded or not)is the is the ability to "nest" saving tremendous space for transport/storage for those who this is an advantage. PS- 160 boxes haven't produced more marten than 155 ones, but a few more and larger fisher. PS- Not good coon boxes, too many misses from arm reaching.
I've learned enough thru the years to now know that I don't know enough. KNOWLEDGE IS FREEDOM.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7170875
02/06/21 12:34 AM
02/06/21 12:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,513 Kanabec Cty, MN
Drakej
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Actually we have started to place box backs very close to some backing(1-2") or cover with some boughs as fully exposed animal work the bait at screen too much(smell still gets out though). Also we had too many wolves lick the screen back and freeze tongues to it, dragging box around until they get free. Trap attached outside box gets pulled out equalling potential missed M/F if box isn't operational when they come bye.
I've learned enough thru the years to now know that I don't know enough. KNOWLEDGE IS FREEDOM.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7171701
02/06/21 07:15 PM
02/06/21 07:15 PM
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ADK95
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Alright folks, here's where I'm at.... Rather than cutting the slots deeper, I shortened the box like Drakej has suggested. Instead of just keeping the back wide open, I actually used the last inch of the cubby to sandwich screen in the back. This makes the cubby much more rigid while still allowing good air flow. I bumped the trap up to a 5x5... I honestly didn't think it would make a difference, but after comparing it to the 120, I see how that might make the difference to a big fisher. I also swapped out the expandapan for a wooden pan and raised it up just a tad as suggested by someone in a PM. I'm really liking this setup... the only thing I'll do differently with the next one is the slots will be cut a bit narrower. It's not huge, but there is a bit of play with that trap. It can rock and slide in those slots. For this one, I'll just correct that with some sticks staked through the springs. Thank you all for the advice! I still have 39 more to do but I'll be waiting until I decide this is 100% the best route for me to go.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7171726
02/06/21 07:31 PM
02/06/21 07:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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Note slots.Thats what holds the trap rock solid.
Last edited by Boco; 02/06/21 07:32 PM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7171731
02/06/21 07:34 PM
02/06/21 07:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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Forget the screen boxes-especially the 1 inch squares.You will be forever rebaiting the trap.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: Boco]
#7171752
02/06/21 07:57 PM
02/06/21 07:57 PM
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ADK95
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Forget the screen boxes-especially the 1 inch squares.You will be forever rebaiting the trap. Thanks for the advice Boco! I'll definitely be keeping the slots much narrower on the next one. The screen I used here is 1/4 inch. Think that'll give me any problems? I figure since I'm setting on the ground, I'll have enough trouble with mice sneaking around the trap for a free meal.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: ADK95]
#7171779
02/06/21 08:24 PM
02/06/21 08:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,512 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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The screen in the bottom/back of a box is good-1/2 inch or 1/4 inch. 1 inch screen will give you the same problems with bait loss as the boxes made totally out of 1 inch screen. Mice,voles and shrews can eat bait but nothing like the bigger birds working thru the large screen holes. Small birds(and microtines) working the bait is a good draw for marten/fisher,and birds will try thru the back of the box thru the smaller mesh,but cannot clean out all the bait quickly.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: Boco]
#7171784
02/06/21 08:27 PM
02/06/21 08:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 113 NY
ADK95
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The screen in the bottom/back of a box is good-1/2 inch or 1/4 inch. 1 inch screen will give you the same problems with bait loss as the boxes made totally out of 1 inch screen. Mice,voles and shrews can eat bait but nothing like the bigger birds working thru the large screen holes. Small birds(and microtines) working the bait is a good draw for marten/fisher,and birds will try thru the back of the box thru the smaller mesh,but cannot clean out all the bait quickly. Good to know! Thank you. Sounds like all I've really got to adjust now is the size of those spring slots.
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Re: Marten/fisher box
[Re: danvee]
#7391491
10/29/21 12:54 PM
10/29/21 12:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,794 100 Mile House, BC Can
bctomcat
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As far as fisher I would go maybe with a larger trap but we are not allowed to trap them here so I use 120s 120's will catch fisher just as easily as larger traps. You can only avoid fisher by using a restricted entrance hole on your box of 2.5 inches,or less, and then some will still get in unless your trap is recessed 12" or more into the box.
Last edited by bctomcat; 10/29/21 01:05 PM.
The only constant in trapping is change so keep learning.
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