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Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: atrapper] #7194186
02/24/21 08:31 AM
02/24/21 08:31 AM
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Posts: 5,152
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
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Originally Posted by atrapper
Bernie, what's your opinion on the DNR's intentions for Mille Lacs walleyes? Did they mess with it to intentionally make the lake a grand fishery for other species or did they have good intentions that went wrong for walleyes? Or is the walleye population as good as ever and politics are hand-cuffing what they can do for regulations? I've fished the lake once, I know very little about it.


I think they had good intentions. But this lake for it's entire history produced incredible walleye fishing until the 1990's. Resorts did well and the winter perch bite was known far and wide. It was managed for maximum sustainable yield and man did it yield. In the 1990,s the slot limits started. They started managing the lake for muskies as well as pike, which may or may not have made a difference. It was a world class muskie fishery for many years but that is now well past its peak.

I am not a biologist, I guided on the lake and have fished it many many times and run many walleye tournaments on the lake. I've seen it at its best and at its worst. I really don't know the answers. Seems to me the netting is a factor and the wanton waste by the Wisconsin tribes is well documented, but nothing is ever done about it. In the early 2000's. It was clear that something was wrong because the slot limits were glutting the lake with just a few year classes of fish which is not sustainable as they will die off for lack of food, which is the cycle we are in now. Boom and bust. Different sizes of fish eat different baits so you can't just keep taking certain sizes and expect the lake to be healthy. Plus the slots create a unbalanced number of males in the harvest Which is something the DNR just now admits they never thought about. The number of walleyes that have died on that lake because of the mismanagement of the DNR is mind blowing. It's just plain bad stewardship to have all these walleyes starving and going to waste when they could be providing food and tourism. Nobody really knows where the smallmouth bass came from, but they have been a huge boom to the lake for bass tournaments, which has helped tourism a little, but the bottom line is that people eat walleyes, they are a food fish and you can't expect people to come stay in a resort to fish for the best tasting fish there is and put them all back.

Like I said I don't know the answer. The lake is so out of whack I don't know how to turn it around. Anglers are more skilled and have better equipment than ever, so that is an issue that has to be a factor. People catch more fish than they used to. Honestly I think there is something seriously flawed in the DNR's population estimates. I really think their systems of monitoring walleye populations is not accurate and that needs to be changed. For sure, the smallmouth bass population needs to be reduced. The invasive rusty crawfish has decimated the huge cabbage beds that once gave refuge to fingerling walleyes and perch. How do you fix that? No idea.

There's a part of me that says to take the lake back 25 years and just allow 4-5 walleyes per day of any size and see if the lake will correct itself in a few years. Most people will just keep enough for a meal and maybe take a couple home. Wish I had a pat answer but I don't.


Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7194338
02/24/21 11:14 AM
02/24/21 11:14 AM
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Thank you for your thoughts. Some interesting stuff there. I tend to agree with you on the thought process of just allowing a 4 fish limit, no slots, and trying to let the lake straighten itself out. At this point in time, most anglers can agree on the importance of spawning sized females to a naturally preproducing lake so hopefully with some common sense, anglers would show some constraint and stewardship when keeping fish.

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7194399
02/24/21 12:08 PM
02/24/21 12:08 PM
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Back in the 60s and early 70s if memory serves 10,000 boats on the lake opening day. Seems like a lot of pressure to me. The big change was netting, and the DNR is going to spin it to save their backside. They and anyone else will never convince me otherwise.

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: atrapper] #7194443
02/24/21 12:55 PM
02/24/21 12:55 PM
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by atrapper
I can imagine the DNR looked at the lake's forage base in perch, ciscoes, suckers, and smaller walleyes and saw the potential it had for growing big esox. It's become an experimental lake. To the chagrin of some and jubilation of others. I still just fail to see then why the DNR is so reluctant to open up the walleye fishery more. Is the main clientele on the lake still walleye fisherman or has it transitioned into mostly musky, bass, and pike fisherman?

There are some hard core walleye fishermen that still go after walleyes. There are a few musky fanatics out there too. Thanks to national promotion, small mouth have become fairly popular on the lake.
Personally, my wife and I fished walleye one year where you could take one between 21-23 inches, I think it was. I remember we caught and released roughly 70 fish. Only one fit the tight slot. I have pretty much resorted to fishing northern pike. If you know how to remove the Y bones, they are a pretty tasty fish.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7194447
02/24/21 01:00 PM
02/24/21 01:00 PM
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by walleye101
Originally Posted by atrapper
You're right, Trapper 7. It was netting that seemed to have thrown off the balance in Upper Red in the late 90's. Now after the walleye demise, crappie boom, crappie demise, and walleye boom, they seem to have the numbers figured out. Seeing a success story like Red and then looking at what's been happening on Mille Lacs for so long really has to make a person wonder what's going on? There appears to be much more politics than science happening on Mille Lacs.

Spot on Seven. Lake of the Woods is an interesting study as well. The resort owners could see the writing on the wall with the amount of fishing pressure happening in the last decade or two and understood that they needed to reduce limits. I have to assume that they will adjust those limits again sooner than later with the amount of pressure that LOW gets. Thank goodness for the Canadian side of LOW replenishing our side of the lake or I think the resort industry would have been in a world of hurt long ago. I'm always amazed at the number of houses or boats out on the water on any given day, the amount of fish taken out daily, and the amount of fishing that the lake continues to have. It's truly a walleye factory.


Walleye factory indeed. Walleye are a renewable resource. It is no coincidence that heavily fished walleye populations continue to produce frequent strong year classes to replenish the population. There is no need for a statewide four fish limit.

According to a resort owner, MilleLacs is a self sustaining walleye factory. It has never been necessary to stock it with walleyes. Even now, there is no shortage of walleyes in the lake, contrary to what the band and MNDNR say.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7194448
02/24/21 01:01 PM
02/24/21 01:01 PM
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walleye101 Offline OP
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Since you insist on making this about Mille Lacs, let me try this one more time.

Since we all agree that Mille Lacs is a mess.........Are you ok with the State lowering the Walleye bag limit from 6 to 4 on the rest of the Walleye lakes in the state, without showing any need or justification for the change?

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: Rat Masterson] #7194475
02/24/21 01:20 PM
02/24/21 01:20 PM
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Back in the 60s and early 70s if memory serves 10,000 boats on the lake opening day. Seems like a lot of pressure to me. The big change was netting, and the DNR is going to spin it to save their backside. They and anyone else will never convince me otherwise.

It took a few years, but eventually the netting started the walleye downward trend. How could it not when the Indians netted in the spawning beds during the spawn? I posed that to one of the DNR managers at the time. He said that didn't have any impact on the spawning success of the walleyes!
I asked him if it didn't, they why are there signs on some lakes prohibiting boat traffic in certain areas because they are spawning beds. His answer was that every lake is different.

Bernie refers to mismanagement by the DNR. A perfect example is for years they targeted the walleyes in a slot of 14-18 inches depleting the number of male walleyes. It took them quite a few years before their test netting made them realize what they had done. That's when they bumped up the size to target the females.

Another time I told the management a limit of 2 walleyes, any size would be a good idea. It would also help the starving resorts on the lake. Once again , I was told they realize there are going to be casualties. Bernie you say you don't know what the answer is. I don't know for sure either, but I can't believe keeping the Indians out of the spawning beds until after the spawn isn't a bad idea.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7194476
02/24/21 01:21 PM
02/24/21 01:21 PM
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Personally, I'm good with a 4 fish bag. Again, I think with today's technology, social media, and advancements in fishing, and number of fisherman, it has put a lot more stain on fish populations. Take Lake of the Woods for example. The amount of fishing hours that lake gets during winter alone has grown exponentially due to the simple fact that people now fish the lake 24 hours a day with their sleeper houses. That wasn't happening just 25 years ago. I feel that it's better to error on the side of caution than overfish a lake and have to start over. That said, I don't think that one blanket bag limit it ideal for all Minnesota lakes. There are just too many factors that come into play with each individual lake to say that a 4 fish bag limit is the perfect fit for each lake.

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: Trapper7] #7194482
02/24/21 01:27 PM
02/24/21 01:27 PM
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Northern Maine
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Originally Posted by Trapper7
Originally Posted by atrapper
I can imagine the DNR looked at the lake's forage base in perch, ciscoes, suckers, and smaller walleyes and saw the potential it had for growing big esox. It's become an experimental lake. To the chagrin of some and jubilation of others. I still just fail to see then why the DNR is so reluctant to open up the walleye fishery more. Is the main clientele on the lake still walleye fisherman or has it transitioned into mostly musky, bass, and pike fisherman?

There are some hard core walleye fishermen that still go after walleyes. There are a few musky fanatics out there too. Thanks to national promotion, small mouth have become fairly popular on the lake.
Personally, my wife and I fished walleye one year where you could take one between 21-23 inches, I think it was. I remember we caught and released roughly 70 fish. Only one fit the tight slot. I have pretty much resorted to fishing northern pike. If you know how to remove the Y bones, they are a pretty tasty fish.

Lol....I would give up fishing with that slot limit.


Nevada bound
Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7194485
02/24/21 01:30 PM
02/24/21 01:30 PM
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by walleye101
Since you insist on making this about Mille Lacs, let me try this one more time.

Since we all agree that Mille Lacs is a mess.........Are you ok with the State lowering the Walleye bag limit from 6 to 4 on the rest of the Walleye lakes in the state, without showing any need or justification for the change?

The DNR has been reducing bag limits on more fish than just walleyes. Just recently they reduced the sunfish-crappie limit to either 5 or 10 on about 70 or so different lakes with the promise of many more to come. This isn't anything new as they have reduced limits on quite a few lakes prior. You have to be sure to read the launch signs at every lake you fish or you could get into a lot of trouble if you plan to keep any fish.

I don't think I'd agree with a 4 walleye limit statewide. For some lakes it might be appropriate. Others fisheries not, such as the Mississippi river where I live. If you drift the river for half a day you will almost be guaranteed to catch 20 walleyes and 20 smallmouth at certain times.. So, the 6 bag limit is fine.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: atrapper] #7194492
02/24/21 01:33 PM
02/24/21 01:33 PM
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Northern Minnesota
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Originally Posted by atrapper
Thank you for your thoughts. Some interesting stuff there. I tend to agree with you on the thought process of just allowing a 4 fish limit, no slots, and trying to let the lake straighten itself out. At this point in time, most anglers can agree on the importance of spawning sized females to a naturally preproducing lake so hopefully with some common sense, anglers would show some constraint and stewardship when keeping fish.


Absolutely almost everyone releases those 24-28-inch females which are the most valuable to the future of the fishery. They key is education, which is something that the Minnesota DNR is the worst at, I mean worse than any other state I know of. People hate the MN DNR because they are sick of being told what to do rather than being told how they can be part of a team effort to improve the fisheries. People want to do the right thing. If the DNR would spend some effort helping people understand what they are trying to accomplish and why, instead of just arrogantly mandating everything, they would have a lot better public image. This is a toxic culture in the MN DNR that has been around since I first started fishing in this state in the early 1970s.

While most people understand the value of the spawning fish (They've learned it from reading magazine articles, books and TV shows, not from the DNR) there should always be an opening for exceptions. Some family comes up from Chicago or elsewhere and spends thousands to stay at a resort, they need to be able to keep a few fish to eat and one daily limit to take home. They also need to be able to keep that once-in-a-lifetime fish if they happen to catch it. If they are jumping up and down over catching a 8-10 pounder and want to take it home to mount, that's okay and it's VERY good for tourism and the resort they stayed at. Just my opinion.

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: BernieB.] #7194517
02/24/21 01:56 PM
02/24/21 01:56 PM
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walleye101 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BernieB.
Originally Posted by atrapper
Thank you for your thoughts. Some interesting stuff there. I tend to agree with you on the thought process of just allowing a 4 fish limit, no slots, and trying to let the lake straighten itself out. At this point in time, most anglers can agree on the importance of spawning sized females to a naturally preproducing lake so hopefully with some common sense, anglers would show some constraint and stewardship when keeping fish.


1)Absolutely almost everyone releases those 24-28-inch females which are the most valuable to the future of the fishery.

2)If the DNR would spend some effort helping people understand what they are trying to accomplish and why, instead of just arrogantly mandating everything, they would have a lot better public image.

3)While most people understand the value of the spawning fish (They've learned it from reading magazine articles, books and TV shows, not from the DNR) there should always be an opening for exceptions. Some family comes up from Chicago or elsewhere and spends thousands to stay at a resort, they need to be able to keep a few fish to eat and one daily limit to take home. They also need to be able to keep that once-in-a-lifetime fish if they happen to catch it. If they are jumping up and down over catching a 8-10 pounder and want to take it home to mount, that's okay and it's VERY good for tourism and the resort they stayed at. Just my opinion.


1) Totally agree, where spawning stock is limited, but those big females can be the curse of a fishery when you have stockpiled them way beyond what is needed for reproduction, and total density is suppressing future year classes.

2) Totally agree, and the best example is the statewide Walleye bag limit change being proposed right now, with no explanation of what they are trying to accomplish.

3) Totally agree, we have gone overboard on protecting big fish and are paying the price in some lakes. Sure there is a need to provide some protection of spawning stock on large natural lakes, but some thinning of the adult population helps as well. Stocked lakes don't depend on spawning stock and don't require the same protection. Consumptive harvest is conservation, wise use, sustainable and can actually benefit walleye fisheries.

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7195112
02/24/21 11:12 PM
02/24/21 11:12 PM
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minnesota
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Seems to me the netting is a factor and the wanton waste by the Wisconsin tribes is well documented, but nothing is ever done about it.

Bernie-could you show some documentation on this? Thanks


And T7 ya never answered my ?'s to you-did ya miss them?

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: gman] #7195269
02/25/21 06:57 AM
02/25/21 06:57 AM
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Northern Minnesota
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Originally Posted by gman
Seems to me the netting is a factor and the wanton waste by the Wisconsin tribes is well documented, but nothing is ever done about it.

Bernie-could you show some documentation on this? Thanks


And T7 ya never answered my ?'s to you-did ya miss them?


Well documented means that anyone can find it.

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7195429
02/25/21 10:37 AM
02/25/21 10:37 AM
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I can't seem to find it---maybe you can guide me along. And by the way I do not like the netting anymore than you do-but I don't like people spreading bs about it either. Also the courts are to blame for this ML problem-NOT the MNDNR. Were you in Mn when this all played out?


T7 Still waiting.

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7195474
02/25/21 11:30 AM
02/25/21 11:30 AM
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minnesota
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The regulations on that lake are a joke. I fished there with a friend of mine a few winters ago and the amount of large fish is huge. The amount of eater size fish is also huge, there is no reason you shouldnt be able to keep a few walleye any time of year.

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: gman] #7195767
02/25/21 03:57 PM
02/25/21 03:57 PM
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by gman
I've had a place on the lake for over 20 years. He's not bsing, just telling it like it is. There have been articles with pictures showing piles of non-target fish dumped in the woods. These Indians are the worst conservationists out there. They net in the spawning beds while the fish are spawning!
One day while out jet skiing my wife and daughter came across an Indian gill net that obviously hadn't been checked recently. There were about 15 dead, rotted walleyes, a couple were still alive, 2 loons, a duck, and a few other species of fish. I called a conservation officer and took him out to where the nets were. He took several photos and pulled the net on shore. Nothing ever came of that. Nothing in the paper, no comment from the DNR. They basically covered it up. I wouldn't be surprised if the CO was reprimanded for taking


T7 Could you show me those articles. Also do you remember the name of the CO you talked about? And how did you know it was a band net?

The CO was Verkeilein, out of Garrison. I think his first name was Greg. He confirmed it was a band net. It would be illegal for anyone but the band to set gill nets. I doubt anyone outside the band would be stupid enough to set gill nets as tight as restrictions are for non-Indians. The CO said it was a band net. I assume he knew what he was talking about and had seen other nets making it possible for him to identify it as a band net.

It was some years ago that I saw the articles and photos. I remember seeing them at Twin Pines resort when we had stopped there to eat.

Now let me ask you something. Do you think it's ethical and good conservation to net walleyes while they're spawning in their spawning beds?


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7195831
02/25/21 05:04 PM
02/25/21 05:04 PM
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You would have to be very closed minded and completely oblivious to not see and understand that there is a direct correlation from when the spearing and netting were granted by the courts and when the walleye issues, pike sizes etc started. I know of a local lake that if netting was allowed a person could probably wipe out 50% of more of the lakes walleye population in just a week or two during the spawn. One group has to fish with rod and reel and our take has to fit inside a specific size. The other group has none of those regulations to follow. Not hard to figure out where things have gone south. On lakes with cooperation like Red a lake can come back but if there isn't any give from one side there is no option or solution. Wanton waste is like said before a very big problem. We see it here in Sawyer County. I have personally seen the ditches full of all species of fish just left to rot.

I agree is makes ZERO sense to lower a daily limit when the average Joe isn't getting to that limit anyway.

Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: ToTheWoods] #7195842
02/25/21 05:16 PM
02/25/21 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ToTheWoods
You would have to be very closed minded and completely oblivious to not see and understand that there is a direct correlation from when the spearing and netting were granted by the courts and when the walleye issues, pike sizes etc started. I know of a local lake that if netting was allowed a person could probably wipe out 50% of more of the lakes walleye population in just a week or two during the spawn. One group has to fish with rod and reel and our take has to fit inside a specific size. The other group has none of those regulations to follow. Not hard to figure out where things have gone south. On lakes with cooperation like Red a lake can come back but if there isn't any give from one side there is no option or solution. Wanton waste is like said before a very big problem. We see it here in Sawyer County. I have personally seen the ditches full of all species of fish just left to rot.

I agree is makes ZERO sense to lower a daily limit when the average Joe isn't getting to that limit anyway.

Spearing and netting have a major impact on MilleLacs. It wasn't that noticeable at first, but that's because MilleLacs is a big lake. But, spearing and netting in the spawning beds has an even greater negative impact because it destroys the future of the lake. It would with any lake. Red Lake was overharvested mostly due to the netting and I don't know if they even netted in the spawning beds like is being done on MilleLacs.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: MNDNR Walleye bag limit [Re: walleye101] #7195858
02/25/21 05:37 PM
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Trapper7 I agree but we can also look at all of the smaller lakes in MN/WI and see where this netting/experiment has continued to go horribly wrong. Lakes we used to catch 20-30 walleyes on in a morning and keep a limit now and again if we wanted are almost dead now-a-days. That is all over in the ceded territory. Go down to southern MN/WI and those lakes that held good numbers are still holding good numbers and a lot of those lakes and flowages outside the ceded territory at pressured pretty hard. Some people find it hard in todays landscape of PC to call a spade a spade.

Now I haven't fished Mille Lacs in many years but a few guys that I know that do fish it regularly have told me that there are still good numbers of fish just not in the slot limit given to them. Age class seems to be a major concern for the future of the lake. Get cooperation from the tribes and close the lake down to all walleye and from what little I know about the lake it will revive and come back on its own. Then start over with sane scientific based regulation

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