Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Swamp Wolf]
#7204239
03/04/21 12:10 PM
03/04/21 12:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786 Western Shore Delaware
SJA
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
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Redknot is correct, sometime back in New York they went from game wardens to "Environmental conservation officers". Now, besides enforcing fish and game laws they also chase speeders on the Northway and look for phosphates in super markets. Even the forest rangers carry guns these days. I can not justify breaking the law, even when there are some bad ones.New York has some bad trapping seasons brought about by a couple of arrogant, know it all biologists, but we must obey them until we can get them changed. If there were no game protectors the violators would run amuck.Most regs are there for good reason. I respect your reply and thankyou for seeing the big pic. Nearly every wildlife agency has undergone changes over the last decade. Many name changes and many having to take on other responsibilities to retain funding. It sux for the wildlife and the sportsman as there is less time dedicated to what we really care about. But all those agencies are at the mercy of a state budget office and legislature. Here in Ga DNR, we used to be called the Game & Fish Divison. Then it was changed to Wildlife Resources Division. Recently, LE was pulled out of that division and became the Law Emforcement Division of DNR. There are several state wildlife agencies that are struggling to maintain their seat at the table. "A rose by any other name . . ." In other words, it's still a Rose no matter what name it's called. :-)
"Humans are the hardest people to get along with." Dr. Phillip Snow
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Swamp Wolf]
#7204244
03/04/21 12:16 PM
03/04/21 12:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687 S Illinois, former cheesehead
Kelly
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,687
S Illinois, former cheesehead
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Swamp, am wanting to go to S GA to bowhunt for hogs on public ground. Couple ? for you. What is legal minimum bow weight for hogs/deer? What license do I need for hogs? Thanks No poundage limit for bows...used to require 40# min, but that terminology was removed a few years ago. Crossbows are legal. Must use broadheads. For deer you will need a 1) non-resident hunting license, 2) a non-resident big game license, and 3) a deer harvest record (free). For hogs only you will need just the non-resident hunting license. There are one day versions of these licenses and you can add extra days for reasonable price. Thank you, Sir! Have a great day.
Enjoy Mother Nature's Glory, everyday!
Once one opens the mind to the plausible, the unbelievable becomes possible!
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Redknot]
#7204245
03/04/21 12:17 PM
03/04/21 12:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,100 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,100
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Sorry Swamp, Yes I see your response above mine now...Yes, I guess you could make it eleven minutes, and nice to know you're are shielding your officers from the nonsense!!! I was responding to your last post but it got deleted...wouldnt let me quote it. In Ga, we dont have any of the violation codes you listed exxept for shooting from a public road. But I have issued warnings and citations for that one, many times.....depended on the situations and how it went down. I should be up to 15 min now, eh?
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7204250
03/04/21 12:29 PM
03/04/21 12:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324 AK
FairbanksLS
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
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At the end of the day the ECO gave Joe 2 tickets when he could have given him 6. Joe needs to stop playing the victim card and comply with the trapping regs as written.
50 years ago many hiking trails looked like cow paths in the Adirondacks.. Parking at a trailhead and using those trails is not the way I would choose to access trapping ground if I wanted to keep my trapping privileges in a blue state. It's really not a good idea in any state.
Last edited by white dog; 03/04/21 12:36 PM.
formerly posting as white dog
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7204256
03/04/21 12:37 PM
03/04/21 12:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154 Tug Hill, NY
Redknot
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
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"A rose by any other name . . ." In other words, it's still a Rose no matter what name it's called. :-) Well yes and no SJA, as Swamp alludes to, the changing of names is often attached to the funding source...What duties are allowed can be tied to that funding source. For instance, if NYS DEC (or other DNR) chose to purchase a pickup truck with certain Federal funding that funding would dictate how that truck could be used...It can get pretty complicated...
~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Redknot]
#7204258
03/04/21 12:41 PM
03/04/21 12:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,100 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,100
South Ga - Almost Florida
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"A rose by any other name . . ." In other words, it's still a Rose no matter what name it's called. :-) Well yes and no SJA, as Swamp alludes to, the changing of names is often attached to the funding source...What duties are allowed can be tied to that funding source. For instance, if NYS DEC (or other DNR) chose to purchase a pickup truck with certain Federal funding that funding would dictate how that truck could be used...It can get pretty complicated... ^^^^yep
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7204260
03/04/21 12:48 PM
03/04/21 12:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786 Western Shore Delaware
SJA
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
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Not sure if you understood what I said? The duties may change + / -, but if your a GW, ECO, DCN, DNR, etc. your still in the Natural Resources Field of LE.
"Humans are the hardest people to get along with." Dr. Phillip Snow
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7204262
03/04/21 12:51 PM
03/04/21 12:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,323 se South Dakota
NonPCfed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,323
se South Dakota
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I had just moved back to Maine and still had Alaska plates on my truck. I was bowhunting deer, making a stalk on a doe on the edge of a field toward dark. The stalk was unsuccessful and as I was making my way back to my truck the ground in front of me erupted. A warden had being eyeing me the entire time and was hiding under his green coat right in the field. I all but stepped on him. After a short discussion he informed me he could cite me for twilight hunting. I explained to him how it was legal to hunt in Alaska any time, day or night, so long as artificial light wasn't involved and that was still fresh in my mind. Having the nonresident license and my explanation got me off the hook. He told me to read the regs and we parted company.
Fast forward a month. I'm bowhunting again. I've been bowhunting the entire month of October and now it's the last Saturday of the month. The last Saturday of the month is residents only day of firearms season. My archery license was good for October and November deer hunting but not for that one Saturday. I came out of the woods just after dark and there is the same warden waiting on me at my truck. He asks me to walk him back to my stand which I agree to do. We get the stand and he comments that it looks like a great spot and we head back to the road. Once we're back at the truck he informs me he can cite me for twilight hunting or hunting as a nonresident on residents only day hunting. Which would I prefer? Anyone who bow hunts with fiber optic sights knows they become useless in the woods well before legal shooting light ends. Usually by about ten minutes. I protested that and he said it shouldn't have taken me that long to get back to the road.
He felt compelled to give me ticket having already let me off the hook once. He did cite me though I don't recall which violation we picked. I didn't have any hard feelings toward him and as we parted he once again told me to read the regs. More "gotcha" bull****! Explain how ANY of that discussion helped maintain or increase the resource?? The "gotcha" things in the above story are so statistically insignificant that there is no impact on the resource. They make wildlife and fisheries students master calculus for a BS degree and then promptly forget how to use such math when they become wildlife cops. Not really their fault because almost all of politicians and bureaucrats who come up with the "law" couldn't do statistical formulas to save their souls, let alone figure out what things truly are important to enforce that make a difference in the resource and those regs are just stupid bs that may occasionally happen but have no real impact in the overall situation. "Follow the science"!! Yeah, right...
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground". Genesis 1:26
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7204266
03/04/21 12:53 PM
03/04/21 12:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,263 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,263
james bay frontierOnt.
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Swampy,are you allowed to surf the trapping forums while at work? You know,like surveillance,lol.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: Boco]
#7204267
03/04/21 12:57 PM
03/04/21 12:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,100 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,100
South Ga - Almost Florida
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Swampy,are you allowed to surf the trapping forums while at work? You know,like surveillance,lol. Absolutely. Catchin' poachers is never-ending work and includes many facets. Facebook has been the downfall of many bragging poachers. But, not by me as I dont have a FB account.
Last edited by Swamp Wolf; 03/04/21 01:03 PM.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7204284
03/04/21 01:31 PM
03/04/21 01:31 PM
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 759 new york
henpecked1
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 759
new york
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Joe, i struggled with this as it is an emotional subject for discussion by all the posts.
The bottom line is two violations tickets, One for untagged traps. which you admit to in you write up. you got one ticket instead of 4 tickets. Thorpe recommended an additional tag above the ice on his beaver traps so the CO would not pull up his set., I also know COs do not like unfolding trap tags that are wrapped around the chain, food for thought.
The other is for a baited body griper, which is again true. My opinion is you got off easy. A martens head would fit in that trap. Also if you had caught a marten in you body gripper that would have been a real big issue.
You received a 100 dollar fine, similar to a speeding ticket. The judge defaulted to the CO as he probably does not see many case like this.
The CO in my opinion let you off. as you could have got tickets for the other 3 untagged traps.
I think the COs biggest concern was you trapping in areas (trail heads and trails) popular with people that do not understand trapping and he would prefer that tourists not get involved in your activities. You were following the law in this case but if you had caught a dog in an un tagged trap there would have been a bigger issue or if you had set closer to the trail which would have been another violation..
I have talked to alot of COs in my over 50 years of trapping in 4 states, They all seemed very reasonable to me. They are doing a job, are professionally trained and avoid gray areas as much as possible. They have families and lives just as we all do.
You were in the military and know the UCMJ, NYS trapping laws are pretty simple compaired to the UCMJ and alot easier to understand that the trapping regs 40 years ago.
So reduce it down to what it was, a reasonable warning with a small fine, tag all ur taps and do not set baited body grippers when not in accordance with the rule book.. You may want to consider meeting with the CO and talking it out. They are not bad people. I have been to IRAQ I know what bad people are
NYS regs are not that bad.
Stay safe and move forward.
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: joepennanti]
#7204316
03/04/21 02:24 PM
03/04/21 02:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,849 Ohio, Old fart to some.
ack
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,849
Ohio, Old fart to some.
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Although I did not read all the responses I have one concern on tagging traps. I along with another local trapper had beaver permits for the same state property. The other trapper slept in the first morning as I set my kine. The next day he was waiting on me complaining I caught them all in one night. He informed me he had called the W.O. and then left the scene. After checking my traps (2 fifty pounders back packed a 1/4 mile) I was met by the officer at my truck. He mention that he looked my traps over that were in my truck and noticed they were all tagged. I agreed with that and asked why he was only checking e for that alone. He informed me the other trapper complained I was trapping with untagged traps. At that point the officer said he had no reason to go look at my set traps as there was over a 100 foot traps all with tags in plain sight. We shook and and departed ways. The next day at the same stop I inspected all 3 traps I had set there. All my tags had been removed. If the officer had wanted to go check my traps that morning I possibly could have been screwed.
Ps. I will never forget the dirty deal that sob tried to pull on me. Now every trap has my ID stamped into the frame or trigger.
_________
I used to have superpowers… but a therapist took them away.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!
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Re: Infringement on Trapper Rights by a NY Game Warden
[Re: henpecked1]
#7204370
03/04/21 03:25 PM
03/04/21 03:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,064 NY
rendezvous
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,064
NY
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Joe, i struggled with this as it is an emotional subject for discussion by all the posts.
The bottom line is two violations tickets, One for untagged traps. which you admit to in you write up. you got one ticket instead of 4 tickets. Thorpe recommended an additional tag above the ice on his beaver traps so the CO would not pull up his set., I also know COs do not like unfolding trap tags that are wrapped around the chain, food for thought.
The other is for a baited body griper, which is again true. My opinion is you got off easy. A martens head would fit in that trap. Also if you had caught a marten in you body gripper that would have been a real big issue.
You received a 100 dollar fine, similar to a speeding ticket. The judge defaulted to the CO as he probably does not see many case like this.
The CO in my opinion let you off. as you could have got tickets for the other 3 untagged traps.
I think the COs biggest concern was you trapping in areas (trail heads and trails) popular with people that do not understand trapping and he would prefer that tourists not get involved in your activities. You were following the law in this case but if you had caught a dog in an un tagged trap there would have been a bigger issue or if you had set closer to the trail which would have been another violation..
I have talked to alot of COs in my over 50 years of trapping in 4 states, They all seemed very reasonable to me. They are doing a job, are professionally trained and avoid gray areas as much as possible. They have families and lives just as we all do.
You were in the military and know the UCMJ, NYS trapping laws are pretty simple compaired to the UCMJ and alot easier to understand that the trapping regs 40 years ago.
So reduce it down to what it was, a reasonable warning with a small fine, tag all ur taps and do not set baited body grippers when not in accordance with the rule book.. You may want to consider meeting with the CO and talking it out. They are not bad people. I have been to IRAQ I know what bad people are
NYS regs are not that bad.
Stay safe and move forward.
I concur and thank you for your service...
Let's go Brandon!
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