Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: ~ADC~]
#7219431
03/18/21 04:26 AM
03/18/21 04:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,098 NC
Tailhunter
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Picked up 4 boxes of 9 mm at scheels today, limit of one, so we went back in and got two more. 18.18$ better price That's a daily limit of one box each. I guess you're above following the rules? Hey, his wife said it was ok. Who are you to complain? Maybe he was out.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: ~ADC~]
#7219480
03/18/21 06:56 AM
03/18/21 06:56 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,594 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Picked up 4 boxes of 9 mm at scheels today, limit of one, so we went back in and got two more. 18.18$ better price That's a daily limit of one box each. I guess you're above following the rules? he promises not to go back today and get another so that it all works out with less gas. being green and all
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Tactical.20]
#7219563
03/18/21 08:54 AM
03/18/21 08:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 672 N. Dakota
1lessdog
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My wife has always been against spending money on guns, hunting. She thinks something could happen and we will need personal protection. I haven't had a handgun since the .22 damaged my hearing when I was 21, I thought it would be cool to have a revolver like in western movies. So wife tells me last year that we should get a couple guns for personal protection. I said well, if you think we should I'll see if we have enough money for one! If you say so! I bought a ruger ar from a friend, looks like new. I wasn't sure if I would get a handgun but she was ok with it. I decided after looking at different brands I would get the Canik TP9SFX. I had to wait a whole month for a permit to buy. My dad is a retired MN deputy, I asked if he had any 9 mm bullets left over, he sold me his service smith and wesson, and I got 100+ hollow points with it! The hollow points are hard to find. With some more practice I think I will like the handgun, I got a pair of walker ear muffs, they are great! For home defense you cant go wrong with a shotgun. With a Handgun or a AR-15 you can shoot thru a wall or door and shoot your neighbor. A load of 8 or 7.5 shot out of a 12 or 20 ga is all you need.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Wallace]
#7219640
03/18/21 10:10 AM
03/18/21 10:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,594 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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anything that has enough power to be effective has enough power to punch a wall.
bullet construction can make it much less of an issue , hitting the intended target does the best at slowing down bullets.
the "all you need is a shotgun!" is a flawed argument of you handle a shotgun all the time it is natural to you
it is high recoil low capacity
any gun that takes longer to load then it does to empty presents issues
there is a reason a lot of PD's have completely removed the shotgun from squads
some officers had issues with the recoil , made getting through qualification harder. it was more to maintain more ammo to stock.
they are responsible for ever single projectile the send , if that is buck shot a flier a pellet that doesn't hit the intended target can be an issue
7.5 or 8 if your at 10 or 15 feet traveling as a single mass if does better at penetrating to a sufficient depth to render something more than a surface wound , at that point it will still also go through walls also but breaks up typically by the second wall. but when you start getting farther like 30 feet which may well be a possible range in your home the pattern is spread out far enough to not be the single mass and penetration is greatly reduced
not every situation is a 12 or 20 ga with shot best.
not every situation is a 223 or 9mm best
proper ammunition selection in all can help
a ammunition like Hornady Urban T.A.P that seems to use a V-max bullet when it hits a hard surface the bullet fragments reducing secondary issues.
there was a test a while back they put a woman who had just taken a basic firearms safety class having very little experience they asked her if she would run an experiment with them and go up against a professional competitive shotgun shooter. for her part they gave her about an hours training on the indoor range with the AR-15 on the buzzer she would place 10 rounds in the target at around 25 feet , like wise the pro would put 10 rounds from the 12 ga on target at the buzzer. she beat him in time and all her rounds were good center hits , she had just 1 hours training on the rifle.
inform the pros and cons then let people decide for themselves what is best for them and their situation. there is no one size fits all
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Wallace]
#7219907
03/18/21 03:05 PM
03/18/21 03:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,800 N.W. Iowa
Tactical.20
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Actually that 5.56 bullet destabilizes quickly when it strikes anything thicker than air. At 31-3200fps splash isn't a problem usually My t.20 at 4375fps the vmax would sometimes explode on the fur going into a coyote
Last edited by Tactical.20; 03/18/21 03:05 PM.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7219908
03/18/21 03:09 PM
03/18/21 03:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,800 N.W. Iowa
Tactical.20
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anything that has enough power to be effective has enough power to punch a wall.
bullet construction can make it much less of an issue , hitting the intended target does the best at slowing down bullets.
the "all you need is a shotgun!" is a flawed argument of you handle a shotgun all the time it is natural to you
it is high recoil low capacity
any gun that takes longer to load then it does to empty presents issues
there is a reason a lot of PD's have completely removed the shotgun from squads
some officers had issues with the recoil , made getting through qualification harder. it was more to maintain more ammo to stock.
they are responsible for ever single projectile the send , if that is buck shot a flier a pellet that doesn't hit the intended target can be an issue
7.5 or 8 if your at 10 or 15 feet traveling as a single mass if does better at penetrating to a sufficient depth to render something more than a surface wound , at that point it will still also go through walls also but breaks up typically by the second wall. but when you start getting farther like 30 feet which may well be a possible range in your home the pattern is spread out far enough to not be the single mass and penetration is greatly reduced
not every situation is a 12 or 20 ga with shot best.
not every situation is a 223 or 9mm best
proper ammunition selection in all can help
a ammunition like Hornady Urban T.A.P that seems to use a V-max bullet when it hits a hard surface the bullet fragments reducing secondary issues.
there was a test a while back they put a woman who had just taken a basic firearms safety class having very little experience they asked her if she would run an experiment with them and go up against a professional competitive shotgun shooter. for her part they gave her about an hours training on the indoor range with the AR-15 on the buzzer she would place 10 rounds in the target at around 25 feet , like wise the pro would put 10 rounds from the 12 ga on target at the buzzer. she beat him in time and all her rounds were good center hits , she had just 1 hours training on the rifle.
inform the pros and cons then let people decide for themselves what is best for them and their situation. there is no one size fits all
That's why I thought the ar could be handy, not so much for indoors weapon but for a few yards further. The shotgun is easy to use and won't blow my ears out, my 3" twelve gauge is an extra full choke, holds tight group. By any range under thirty yards I figured the 9 mm might be handier in the dark, in the house or close range I shoot #2 or #4 shotgun modifier recommended it
Last edited by Tactical.20; 03/18/21 03:14 PM.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7219911
03/18/21 03:13 PM
03/18/21 03:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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anything that has enough power to be effective has enough power to punch a wall.
bullet construction can make it much less of an issue , hitting the intended target does the best at slowing down bullets.
the "all you need is a shotgun!" is a flawed argument of you handle a shotgun all the time it is natural to you
it is high recoil low capacity
any gun that takes longer to load then it does to empty presents issues
there is a reason a lot of PD's have completely removed the shotgun from squads
some officers had issues with the recoil , made getting through qualification harder. it was more to maintain more ammo to stock.
they are responsible for ever single projectile the send , if that is buck shot a flier a pellet that doesn't hit the intended target can be an issue
7.5 or 8 if your at 10 or 15 feet traveling as a single mass if does better at penetrating to a sufficient depth to render something more than a surface wound , at that point it will still also go through walls also but breaks up typically by the second wall. but when you start getting farther like 30 feet which may well be a possible range in your home the pattern is spread out far enough to not be the single mass and penetration is greatly reduced
not every situation is a 12 or 20 ga with shot best.
not every situation is a 223 or 9mm best
proper ammunition selection in all can help
a ammunition like Hornady Urban T.A.P that seems to use a V-max bullet when it hits a hard surface the bullet fragments reducing secondary issues.
there was a test a while back they put a woman who had just taken a basic firearms safety class having very little experience they asked her if she would run an experiment with them and go up against a professional competitive shotgun shooter. for her part they gave her about an hours training on the indoor range with the AR-15 on the buzzer she would place 10 rounds in the target at around 25 feet , like wise the pro would put 10 rounds from the 12 ga on target at the buzzer. she beat him in time and all her rounds were good center hits , she had just 1 hours training on the rifle.
inform the pros and cons then let people decide for themselves what is best for them and their situation. there is no one size fits all
I've also been told that with high stress/multiple assailant scenarios people will often "short shuck" a pump action... I'm a believer in shotguns for home defense but that is another thing to keep in mind. Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Tactical.20]
#7219918
03/18/21 03:22 PM
03/18/21 03:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,411 east central WI
k snow
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That's true, I did it once hunting when I was a teenager, Practice helps a lot, then the 9 would be good in reach if shotgun fails. I would hate to shoot the 9 mm with out ear protection in an emergency, it would be tough on ear drums You think a shotgun won't blow your ears out inside a building? Anything over a 22 is VERY loud in an enclosed space. Add to that the concussion from muzzle blast bouncing off ceiling and walls. Shooting a gun in a building is very different than shooting one outside.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Tactical.20]
#7219923
03/18/21 03:29 PM
03/18/21 03:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,594 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Actually that 5.56 bullet destabilizes quickly when it strikes anything thicker than air. At 31-3200fps splash isn't a problem usually My t.20 at 4375fps the vmax would sometimes explode on the fur going into a coyote stating all 223 bullets destabilize is a myth that started with the early M16 the bullets were 55gr fmj and the 1:12 and 1:14 twist did make them conditionally stable a bullet could pass through a large leaf and bee seen keyholing through the next leaf a yard past it. shorter barrels , faster twists and heavier bullets change this the 55gr soft point I dug out of the far side of a buck showed almost no sign of changing path. the more balanced bullet , 1:7 twist and slower velocity of being sent from a pistol changed that. today with 1:7 twist barrels 13-14 inches long and 69 and 72 gr projectiles military rounds don't destabilize as easily. the unbalanced nose light steel tip bullets still turn shortly after striking a soft target however that isn't caliber based the 303brit MKVII ammunition used an aluminum nose core to make it a tail heavy round while still an FMJ it turned and the heavy tail lead shortly after entering a soft target .
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Tactical.20]
#7219934
03/18/21 03:42 PM
03/18/21 03:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,650 Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB
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That's true, I did it once hunting when I was a teenager, Practice helps a lot, then the 9 would be good in reach if shotgun fails. I would hate to shoot the 9 mm with out ear protection in an emergency, it would be tough on ear drums In a homedef situation, being alive is a bigger priority than what happens to your hearing.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Mike in A-town]
#7219978
03/18/21 04:36 PM
03/18/21 04:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,594 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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inform the pros and cons then let people decide for themselves what is best for them and their situation. there is no one size fits all
I've also been told that with high stress/multiple assailant scenarios people will often "short shuck" a pump action... I'm a believer in shotguns for home defense but that is another thing to keep in mind. Mike you also need a working arm to function the slide if we want some evidence looking back at the 1986 Miami Dade FBI shoot out that has shaped so much of modern training it was basically 1 guy with a mini 14 against 6 trained agents with hand guns and pump shotguns. killing 2 and taking 4 out of the fight. the final shot that proved fatal to MR Mini 14 was from an agent who got back in the fight after having his left arm hit and double bone break from being hit very early in the fight , he then from cover of a car wheel fired the fatal shot one handed with a 12ga. re imagine that gun fight 8 agents all with a colt 639 rifles with the 11 1/2 inch barrel and 30 round mags each agent carrying 5 mags 150 rounds each 4 in their jacket pockets one in the gun. by 1986 the 1968 variant colt 639 would have been available for the FBI. with 2 point slings so that no one looses their gun in the crash all the agents started in cars big cars , they knew they were hunting 2 bad guys who had killed and robbed their way around south Florida and were not slow to shoot at cops or security guards. instead 12 round smith & Wesson semi auto pistols , 6 round 357 and 5 round 38spl and pump shotguns were used agents were killed while reloading , they were going into a lopsided fight the agents could empty their guns in 3 seconds and spend 6+ reloading what does this have to do with a civilian home defense it isn't the target range the target is moving and shooting back , less time relaoding is more time shooting , if trained agents and cops get hits with 1 in 10 rounds you might want more rounds. avoid fair fights zero , zero in the bottom of the 9th is a good baseball game , zero hits at the bottom of a magazine is bad. nothing wrong with a shotgun if it is what you know inside and out in the dark but the other options shouldn't be discounted either
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 03/18/21 04:38 PM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: k snow]
#7220043
03/18/21 06:12 PM
03/18/21 06:12 PM
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Tactical.20
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That's true, I did it once hunting when I was a teenager, Practice helps a lot, then the 9 would be good in reach if shotgun fails. I would hate to shoot the 9 mm with out ear protection in an emergency, it would be tough on ear drums You think a shotgun won't blow your ears out inside a building? Anything over a 22 is VERY loud in an enclosed space. Add to that the concussion from muzzle blast bouncing off ceiling and walls. Shooting a gun in a building is very different than shooting one outside. I guess I've never shot one indoors, it has always been outside
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Tactical.20]
#7220044
03/18/21 06:15 PM
03/18/21 06:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,040 ND
grumley701
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My hearing wouldn't be a concern at the moment and I doubt it would be yours.. besides my left ear is already jacked.
Last edited by grumley701; 03/18/21 06:16 PM.
Pure Blood
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Tactical.20]
#7220062
03/18/21 06:48 PM
03/18/21 06:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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Pete, have you ever read Unintended Consequences by John Ross?
He breaks down that FBI shootout in pretty much a second-by-second replay... And includes the 2 agents who were "detained" with the waitress at the cafe.
Amazing that more agents didn't die.
Mike
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: SNIPERBBB]
#7221288
03/19/21 07:58 PM
03/19/21 07:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,800 N.W. Iowa
Tactical.20
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That's true, I did it once hunting when I was a teenager, Practice helps a lot, then the 9 would be good in reach if shotgun fails. I would hate to shoot the 9 mm with out ear protection in an emergency, it would be tough on ear drums In a homedef situation, being alive is a bigger priority than what happens to your hearing. I know, and I suppose it isn't as noticable in a situation like that, I don't notice that gunfire is as loud when hunting, target practice seems much louder
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Re: Good find 9 mm ammo
[Re: Mike in A-town]
#7221315
03/19/21 08:24 PM
03/19/21 08:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,594 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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Pete, have you ever read Unintended Consequences by John Ross?
He breaks down that FBI shootout in pretty much a second-by-second replay... And includes the 2 agents who were "detained" with the waitress at the cafe.
Amazing that more agents didn't die.
Mike I have not read that book, have seen some other reports and break downs. the agent with the 9mm s&w auto that emptied both his mags getting maybe 1 hit from across the street had lost his glasses in the car crash he wore thick glasses but everyone considered him the best marksman at the FBI at the time. he just could not see. it is amazing more didn't die and there was no shortage of courage that day either the only shortages that day were weapon retention one agent lost his gun in the crash after having tucked it under his leg prior to the crash and glasses retention in the car crash and the ability to put rounds into the guns fast enough to keep from running empty. maybe marksmanship but that is a hard thing when everyone is firing from cover at a person with some cover as much as the "average" gun fight lasts less than a magazine , those that do last longer , the winner typically had more magazines. one that comes to mind officer pulls over a car , both officer and stopped car are Chevy impala's and both office and bad guy have the same S&W 9mm pistol each holds 16+1 as the officer is walking up the bad guy shoots and hits him in the arm. they then "dance" around the cars each taking some hits to extremities the officer manages a reload at one point while behind the car , bad guy runs dry and officer ends the fight. he lived and in that situation that is what matters. the officer was wearing body armor but I seem to recall not one round actually hit the body armor
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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