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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: Dirt] #7224511
03/23/21 12:33 PM
03/23/21 12:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,589
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by hippie
I hope you learned that state Associations have been implementing BMP's as well as game commissions like ours from the replies here to ease your mind about them. Now if your wanting more which is what it sounds like, you'll continue to get the raft you've also seen.


Seems he is advocating States implementing the BMP recommendations. As far I can tell that would mean a ban on neck snares for western coyotes which would include here. This will be good for trappers.

The snares recommended for red fox is 3/32" or 1/8" cable. 1/8" cable for a fox? 3/32 is overkill enough. confused

No lynx neck snare recommended?

Thanks! But no Thanks!


No i am not, if i did it was a mistake. What i did say is i don't think states should turn their back on it.
From what i am hearing no state has done that.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7224517
03/23/21 12:41 PM
03/23/21 12:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,589
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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When i started this thread i didn't realize how much of a hot button topic this was. What got me thinking about was Dave Hastings article on it in the fur taker magazine.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by rpmartin; 03/23/21 12:45 PM. Reason: Added pic

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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7224555
03/23/21 01:28 PM
03/23/21 01:28 PM
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Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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" Yes, the NMTA supported a voluntary compliance with BMPs and a mandatory education requirement. We told the Department, the game commission, and elected officials it would not appease the antis. We knew and they stated they wanted a total ban. In that regard BMPs did not help."


Who is John Galt?
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7224567
03/23/21 01:40 PM
03/23/21 01:40 PM
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hippie Offline
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Nothing will appease the anti's and the sooner people realize that, the better.

It will only cost trappers more money to retool, only to buy a couple years time at best. They'll keep coming after us.

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7224601
03/23/21 02:14 PM
03/23/21 02:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,589
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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I 100% agree with both of your posts. Sounds like New Mexico did everything right and everything they could to stop the ban. Being more United against the antis would be nice but i don't think that is going to happen either unfortunately.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225303
03/24/21 09:52 AM
03/24/21 09:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
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S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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Well, after talking to friend that has been through some of the bmp talks and studies i have come to the conclusion that bmps are not what i was looking for. Most folks are already implementing bmps whether they realize it or not. With that said bmps are still coming whether we like it or not as Dave H. Said in his snippet above. Hoping between them, the nta and the individual states, they can come to a sensible conclusion.

What i am looking for is a mandatory trapper ed course for new trappers. Trappers that have previously held a trapping license would be grandfathered in.

Some of the views and mindsets of, (i could care less about the animal) is not going to help our cause at all. We should all have the animal's welfare in mind right up to the point of the decision of what your going to do with it. I will never change my mind on that statement.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225326
03/24/21 10:15 AM
03/24/21 10:15 AM
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Garden,Michigan
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Buck (Zandra) Offline
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Agreed.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225371
03/24/21 11:07 AM
03/24/21 11:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,442
Oakland, MS
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Many states ALREADY are doing this and have for years.


�Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. � � Winston Churchill








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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225380
03/24/21 11:13 AM
03/24/21 11:13 AM
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Garden,Michigan
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Buck (Zandra) Offline
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Are they mandatory?Michigan mentions BMPs too in its trapper education curriculum,but it's voluntary.You don't need the course to get a license.Seeing how the majority of first timers just buy a license without the course means they don't know a thing about them.I'll bet the majority of the other states are the same way


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225385
03/24/21 11:22 AM
03/24/21 11:22 AM
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East-Central Wisconsin
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From my perspective the BMP studies were set up and intended to test, research and then recommend traps, not get into all the variables such as methods, trapper preferences etc. etc. Having all the trappers doing the same thing was a way to remove variables to test a trap on a species and thus several traps on several species. With some science based background as a base then we can and should move forward with the best methods and protocols that allow for better trapline management and humane harvest. There are a whole host of variables from trappers, to laws, regs, states etc. When doing research one tries to remove as many variables as possible.

As to trapping methods, practices etc. almost every state has very unique seasons, protocols, methods, trap, snare or cable usage etc. etc. With all those variables across out nation it makes it easier for those wanting to limit and restrict harvest to find the lower hanging fruit and losing county by county and state by state may well be a faster way to the end than having a more unified argument to defend.

Bryce

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225391
03/24/21 11:24 AM
03/24/21 11:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,774
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
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Iowa
Originally Posted by rpmartin


What i am looking for is a mandatory trapper ed course for new trappers. Trappers that have previously held a trapping license would be grandfathered in.



Who pays for that?

I do not believe, and can not be convinced, that the problems that will end trapping can be solved by teaching trappers ed. The problems are slob trappers that intentionally choose to not use common sense or follow the laws in place, the irresponsible pet owners, other sportsmen like bird hunters, and an uneducated public that believes the BS that has been ingrained in their hears since a child (and not necessarily in that order!). No amount of new regulations or trappers education will fix any of that.

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225392
03/24/21 11:25 AM
03/24/21 11:25 AM
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Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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The majority of the public does not believe trapping is more humane because of improvement in traps.


HIGHEST APPROVAL RATINGS ON REASONS FOR TRAPPING
Ecological reasons 67-90%
Damage control reasons 67-77%
Food/subsistence reasons 59-84%
LOWEST APPROVAL RATINGS
Trapping for money, for 15%-43%
recreation, or for fur clothing


afwa public opinion surveys

Here is your real problem. How you going to fix this when it is only getting worse? You're not.


Who is John Galt?
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: ~ADC~] #7225408
03/24/21 11:55 AM
03/24/21 11:55 AM
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hippie Offline
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Originally Posted by ~ADC~
Originally Posted by rpmartin


What i am looking for is a mandatory trapper ed course for new trappers. Trappers that have previously held a trapping license would be grandfathered in.



Who pays for that?

I do not believe, and can not be convinced, that the problems that will end trapping can be solved by teaching trappers ed. The problems are slob trappers that intentionally choose to not use common sense or follow the laws in place, the irresponsible pet owners, other sportsmen like bird hunters, and an uneducated public that believes the BS that has been ingrained in their hears since a child (and not necessarily in that order!). No amount of new regulations or trappers education will fix any of that.


Alot of states already do. Pa. Even requires you to take a cable restraint class to use them.

Maine required proof when I trapped there too.

And yes to ADC, always more laws and hoops that will do squat.

Last edited by hippie; 03/24/21 12:03 PM.
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: ~ADC~] #7225413
03/24/21 12:02 PM
03/24/21 12:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,589
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ~ADC~
Originally Posted by rpmartin


What i am looking for is a mandatory trapper ed course for new trappers. Trappers that have previously held a trapping license would be grandfathered in.



Who pays for that?

I do not believe, and can not be convinced, that the problems that will end trapping can be solved by teaching trappers ed. The problems are slob trappers that intentionally choose to not use common sense or follow the laws in place, the irresponsible pet owners, other sportsmen like bird hunters, and an uneducated public that believes the BS that has been ingrained in their hears since a child (and not necessarily in that order!). No amount of new regulations or trappers education will fix any of that.


I don't know for sure, Pittman Robertson act maybe? Same way the states that do have mandatory trapping ed do i guess.

Slob trappers teaching new trappers the same thing. See a problem there?
Mandatory trapper ed would at least give all new trappers, including potential slob trappers, a different perspective on right from wrong. Of course it's always up to the individual how they will proceed after the class. I can't see how that's a bad thing.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225414
03/24/21 12:04 PM
03/24/21 12:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
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S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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Wisconsin, Minnesota and Illinois do. Iowa and Michigan do not. Just the ones i checked on.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225419
03/24/21 12:05 PM
03/24/21 12:05 PM
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Rodney,Ohio
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Pitt-Robb is a bit funny when it comes to funding trapping.

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225420
03/24/21 12:08 PM
03/24/21 12:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,589
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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I agree on less laws and more common sense, but this day and age i think states need to get ahead of this stuff and be proactive instead of reactive.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225421
03/24/21 12:08 PM
03/24/21 12:08 PM
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hippie Offline
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According to the fish and wildlife website, 21 states already require a class to buy a trapping license and 35 have it available.

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225426
03/24/21 12:10 PM
03/24/21 12:10 PM
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Garden,Michigan
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Originally Posted by rpmartin
I agree on less laws and more common sense, but this day and age i think states need to get ahead of this stuff and be proactive instead of reactive.

Why be proactive when we can be reactive(sarcasm)?


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7225430
03/24/21 12:14 PM
03/24/21 12:14 PM
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Rodney,Ohio
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Many states are proactive. It's through education. Getting people in involved and/or informed on the benefits of what we do in the classroom, shows, fairs, etc. Just shouting about antis is less than useful.

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