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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7226860
03/26/21 01:50 AM
03/26/21 01:50 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
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Oakland, MS
Here's my problem with mandatory trappers ed. I started trapping when I was 7. I was being raised by a single mom, who was driving a 30 year old piece of junk car. Trappers ed was mandatory in my state even way back then (30 years ago). Fortunately, in that state, at that time, every single county had at least 2 different trappers ed courses each summer, so I was able to have my mom drive me 5 miles to get my certificate.

Fast forward 20 years to when I lived in IL, which also had mandatory trappers ed. Imagine my shock when I found out the nearest trappers ed course was over 2 hours away! That year, they only had 5 courses in the entire state. I was dismayed. I couldn't stop thinking about how many kids might want to trap their neighbors farm but wouldn't be able to legally because making a 2 hour drive wasn't even a possibility for them. I looked into how to become a trappers educator in that state, and found out you needed to take several days of courses (all of which also were over 2 hours away) and then apprentice for 3 classes with another instructor, which would involve putting on well over 2 thousand miles. All of the classes were also always on only Saturday, and I worked Saturdays. And of course, it was trappers and the association tasked with putting them on, without any compensation.... it didn't come from the state.

If any states are even considering mandatory trappers education, they should be sure to require that they're held in every county (or at least every other) and that it's the STATE responsible for funding and holding these events, and not lay it all on the volunteers of the trapping association.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7226862
03/26/21 02:06 AM
03/26/21 02:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,030
Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
"Wilbur"
Savell  Offline
"Wilbur"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,030
Coldspring Texas
[Linked Image]


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: yotetrapper30] #7226970
03/26/21 07:28 AM
03/26/21 07:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,231
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
trapper
rpmartin  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,231
S/W Wisconsin
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
Here's my problem with mandatory trappers ed. I started trapping when I was 7. I was being raised by a single mom, who was driving a 30 year old piece of junk car. Trappers ed was mandatory in my state even way back then (30 years ago). Fortunately, in that state, at that time, every single county had at least 2 different trappers ed courses each summer, so I was able to have my mom drive me 5 miles to get my certificate.

Fast forward 20 years to when I lived in IL, which also had mandatory trappers ed. Imagine my shock when I found out the nearest trappers ed course was over 2 hours away! That year, they only had 5 courses in the entire state. I was dismayed. I couldn't stop thinking about how many kids might want to trap their neighbors farm but wouldn't be able to legally because making a 2 hour drive wasn't even a possibility for them. I looked into how to become a trappers educator in that state, and found out you needed to take several days of courses (all of which also were over 2 hours away) and then apprentice for 3 classes with another instructor, which would involve putting on well over 2 thousand miles. All of the classes were also always on only Saturday, and I worked Saturdays. And of course, it was trappers and the association tasked with putting them on, without any compensation.... it didn't come from the state.

If any states are even considering mandatory trappers education, they should be sure to require that they're held in every county (or at least every other) and that it's the STATE responsible for funding and holding these events, and not lay it all on the volunteers of the trapping association.


Good points, and i have thought about that. If it was up to me i would make most of the class an online course. I think most could learn 90% more or less of what they needed to learn online. Then have a several hour field day to go over what they learned online and take another written test to make sure they know what they need and to help anyone that is a little behind. That's a quick overview of what it would consist of. That's how some states conduct their hunter ed courses. I thought it was a really good idea. I also know that people have their mind made up and refuse anything new or different.

Even a 100% online course would bo better than nothing.

To most of us traps are pretty basic for the most part but to a new trapper traps and trapping can be very overwhelming. Most traps don't come with instructions so a trappers ed course would at least get them off to a good start. My version of a course would be learning about the what some responsibilities of a trapper are about traps, safety, laws, public lands and many other subjects.

Does this sound like something that might work?


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: Savell] #7227165
03/26/21 11:20 AM
03/26/21 11:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,231
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
trapper
rpmartin  Offline OP
trapper

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Posts: 3,231
S/W Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Savell
[Linked Image]


Well bless your heart. Nice catch


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7227280
03/26/21 02:15 PM
03/26/21 02:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,293
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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East-Central Wisconsin
WI has been mandatory TE since 1992. At the same time a correspondence course was initiated so that an option was available for those who could not attend the live courses which are typically 12-16 hours of class time. There are many ways one can offer options if mandatory TE is required. TE instructors are WTA members certified through the DNR and they are not paid for their instruction time. If they have costs involved with holding a class they can submit invoices to recoup those expenses. We now have an online option which uses the same manual that is used for the live classes and the correspondence. Many more are choosing the online today versus correspondence but we keep that as there are persons not on the internet, mainly the Amish in our state. W always made an effort to hold as many classes as we could and to have them well distributed. Being that we are beholding on having trained certified instructors in areas, there are counties and districts which do not have as many instructors as we would like to have and due to not paying for time or travel, instructors from areas where we have adequate numbers do not choose to travel longer distances.
Live versus virtual or by mail is pretty much a personal choice thing. When graduates of the live classes are asked are they glad they chose the live class option the answer is overwhelmingly yes. For those that just want to get a license and not be bothered outside of their own scope of things, we have options for those as well.

Bryce

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7227411
03/26/21 05:21 PM
03/26/21 05:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,231
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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Good info Bryce, thanks for posting that.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7227417
03/26/21 05:27 PM
03/26/21 05:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,257
Iowa
~ADC~ Online content
The Count
~ADC~  Online Content
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,257
Iowa
Nothing wrong with voluntary trappers ed classes.

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7227663
03/26/21 08:56 PM
03/26/21 08:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,030
Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
"Wilbur"
Savell  Offline
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Posts: 9,030
Coldspring Texas
[Linked Image]


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: Savell] #7227705
03/26/21 09:34 PM
03/26/21 09:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,004
alabama
steeltraps Offline
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alabama
Nice one Savell ! By all means lets make sure that coyote is comfortable in a trap. Lets not worry about all the fawns, sheep, and calfs its killed! LOL!

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: steeltraps] #7227712
03/26/21 09:42 PM
03/26/21 09:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,030
Coldspring Texas
Savell Offline
"Wilbur"
Savell  Offline
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Coldspring Texas
Originally Posted by steeltraps
Nice one Savell ! By all means lets make sure that coyote is comfortable in a trap. Lets not worry about all the fawns, sheep, and calfs its killed! LOL!


.... lol now I will say I understand where the Yankee is coming from as far as trying to preserve trapping... I just don’t think the folks that work to get it banned care if a critter is caught and killed with a laminated trap or not... ..don’t negotiate with terrorists is all I’m getting at lol .... slippery slope


Insert profound nonsense here
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: Savell] #7227822
03/26/21 11:18 PM
03/26/21 11:18 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
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Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by Savell
Originally Posted by steeltraps
Nice one Savell ! By all means lets make sure that coyote is comfortable in a trap. Lets not worry about all the fawns, sheep, and calfs its killed! LOL!


.... lol now I will say I understand where the Yankee is coming from as far as trying to preserve trapping... I just don’t think the folks that work to get it banned care if a critter is caught and killed with a laminated trap or not... ..don’t negotiate with terrorists is all I’m getting at lol .... slippery slope


Stop trying to inject sense into this whole conversation, lol.

RPMartin, my recommendation would be against mandatory trapper's ed and in favor of voluntary trapper ed. Look into AL's voluntary kids camps for a good role model for states with no trapping classes. IF a state was forced to have mandatory trapper's ed, it sounds as though the model Bryce described would work best.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7228072
03/27/21 10:01 AM
03/27/21 10:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,231
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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rpmartin  Offline OP
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S/W Wisconsin
Not trying to change the antis minds, i know that is hopeless. What i think would be good is to change the way some trappers talk about the total disregard for an animal. It's all about public perception and some on here are not doing us any favors. If the antis got ahold of some of the statements right here on this thread they would have a field day. They wouldn't have to do anything besides put our to the public and we would be our own worst enemy. And some think this is funny.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7228111
03/27/21 11:28 AM
03/27/21 11:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
rpmartin did you look at the survey about public opinion? The public thinks trapping hurts the animals. Very logical. The public thinks if you are going to hurt animals trapping them the reason the individual trapper does it better be not be for recreation, making money, or to make fur coats.

So if a trapper puts pictures of a 100 worthless coyotes on the internut, he better not brag how much fun he had or he is own worst enemy.

They need to teach this in those mandatory classes, but they won't.


Who is John Galt?
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: Dirt] #7228164
03/27/21 01:01 PM
03/27/21 01:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,231
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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rpmartin  Offline OP
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S/W Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Dirt
The majority of the public does not believe trapping is more humane because of improvement in traps.


HIGHEST APPROVAL RATINGS ON REASONS FOR TRAPPING
Ecological reasons 67-90%
Damage control reasons 67-77%
Food/subsistence reasons 59-84%
LOWEST APPROVAL RATINGS
Trapping for money, for 15%-43%
recreation, or for fur clothing


afwa public opinion surveys

Here is your real problem. How you going to fix this when it is only getting worse? You're not.


The graphs right above the one you typed out says trapping approval went up in all 3 states in 10 years. And the one below says approval also went up because of trap improvements over the last 10 years.

Looks to me like thing look better more than worse?

Does Connecticut and Indiana have mandatory TE?


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7228174
03/27/21 01:14 PM
03/27/21 01:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
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Armpit, ak
Statistically those numbers are relatively the same. What's getting worse is trapping to provide food, shelter, and clothing (subsistence) is disappearing and being replace with the lowest approval category. It will all be replaced with ADC in the end.


Who is John Galt?
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7228205
03/27/21 02:01 PM
03/27/21 02:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,231
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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Imo the ecological question should have been a 2 parts. 2nd question should have been, sense the animal is dead to reduce disease and overpopulation wouldn't it be prudent to utilize the fur to keep people warm in cold climates instead of letting it go to waste? Also shouldn't it be ok to make a few bucks to help offset expenses? Ok maybe a 3 parter. The public needs to know very few trappers make a profit from trapping.

I thought some of those graphs showed a pretty substantial rise in approval ratings. Maybe its just me.

I think the upswing in approval ratings is due to TE and a better understanding of the tools, methods and mentality of our sport.


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Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7228212
03/27/21 02:19 PM
03/27/21 02:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,293
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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Interesting to note that those who do not trap support the idea of the ecological need for trapping, probably even more than many who trap. That bodes well for the future and in my opinion the TE aspect of becoming a licensed trapper. There are many aspects of life where training, practice and certification are required, such as driving licenses, selling food items, offering financial advice, being a trade's worker etc. TE to me gives more credibility for the practice of trapping to the non trapping public and also for the industry itself and those involved. The non trapping world is not like it was during the early 1880s fur boom and trapping is not the same either, yet we want to cling to that image of who we are and how to go about doing our profession.

Bryce

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: rpmartin] #7228249
03/27/21 03:12 PM
03/27/21 03:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Before you get too excited, if I remember right the ecological reasons were more about trapping and transplanting species and conducting studies not the possible wildlife management benefits motivation of trappers.

Last edited by Dirt; 03/27/21 03:25 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: Dirt] #7228290
03/27/21 04:36 PM
03/27/21 04:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,293
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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Not overly excited but it is good to know that even a basic understanding of ecology is helpful for our interests. Lot of discussion globally now about ecology and if we can keep that discussion about how the world living organisms work and more away from environmentalism, that will benefit us. Management what we do regarding maintaining ecological balance and thus it gives more leverage for consumptive harvest and we have science helping us with that message.

Bryce

Re: BMP Best management practices [Re: ] #7228904
03/28/21 09:10 AM
03/28/21 09:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,231
S/W Wisconsin
rpmartin Offline OP
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S/W Wisconsin
Originally Posted by ND FTA
Originally Posted by rpmartin
Not trying to change the antis minds, i know that is hopeless. What i think would be good is to change the way some trappers talk about the total disregard for an animal. It's all about public perception and some on here are not doing us any favors. If the antis got ahold of some of the statements right here on this thread they would have a field day. They wouldn't have to do anything besides put our to the public and we would be our own worst enemy. And some think this is funny.


Says the guy who said footholds take the legs off coyotes earlier in this thread.


Sheesh punkin, with all your hate, i must have really hurt your your feelings bad at one time or another?


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