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Hvac question #7236086
04/05/21 11:07 PM
04/05/21 11:07 PM
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adam m Offline OP
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I'm planning on replacing my hvac system for several reasons but it's also needed as my duct has lots of rust dents holes all over. So all my duct needs to be replaced. I have several questions.
Would insurance cover replacing that? I have a rider for all systems & appliances in my house.
2) what is a better zoned system ("regular", or mini split). With mini split can I zone multiple rooms together?
3) what's the cost difference between the 2 systems?
4) do the "cassette ducts" allow enough room in the ceiling for vaulted ceilings?

I have vaulted ceilings throughout and the duct is not adequate as is because of many issues and there's no hvac in the master bathroom and the only duct in the master bedroom only gets part of the room. I have an electric heater in the bathroom that's installed in the wall next to the tub. Which is stupid and dangerous.
I also need to add hvac in the garage.

I've been told a few different people the tonnage I need is 2.5, 3 & 3.5 tons depending who I asked. 1600 sq ft with the garage on a slab. 1250 sq ft without the garage.


Last edited by adam m; 04/05/21 11:13 PM. Reason: Stupid phone put wrong words
Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236091
04/05/21 11:26 PM
04/05/21 11:26 PM
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Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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I haul ductwork a few times a year for a heating guy here I pick up at a place that builds the ducts for the guy, now I'm cheap and if it was me I'd haul that old duct work to these guy and say make me new ones and go from there.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236097
04/05/21 11:45 PM
04/05/21 11:45 PM
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adam m Offline OP
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That's a great idea. I can only save maybe 1/2 of the duct. It's really bad.

Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236099
04/05/21 11:46 PM
04/05/21 11:46 PM
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Southern NJ
maintenanceguy Online content
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I hire almost a million dollars of HVAC service and construction work each year. I used to be an HVAC tech 30 years ago but haven't gotten my hands dirty in that field for a long time.

It's really easy to set up a zoned system with mini-splits. Setting up different zones means you're only paying to heat and cool the spaces you're using. They require no duct work, and are easy to install just about anywhere without major construction. And, you get redundancy - if one unit goes down, you still have heat and cooling in other places.

But, they're more expensive than conventional heat and air. Probably twice the cost. I don't know how difficult it will be to replace duct work. If duct work for a conventional system is going to be a nightmare, mini-splits might not be that much more expensive. The only way to know is to get a couple of contractors to price it for you both ways.

The heat or cooling load depends on lots of factors. Size of the home isn't enough to know. A contractor needs to do a load calculation to know what size you need. And, getting the size is important. With heat, it's not a real problem to be too big. With cooling, a system that's oversized won't run long enough to dehumidify. Oversized cooling systems are wet and sticky and cause mold.

Let two contractors look at it and let them tell you what each system would cost.

Last edited by maintenanceguy; 04/05/21 11:48 PM.

-Ryan
Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236263
04/06/21 09:00 AM
04/06/21 09:00 AM
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adam m Offline OP
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Thata good to know thanks.
Yup those are the reasons I want zoned system.
I have very little clearance in the vaulted ceiling so I'm worried about the depth of the cassette for mini split.

Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236293
04/06/21 09:22 AM
04/06/21 09:22 AM
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Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
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Remember with Mini Splits though they don't require duct work each cassette requires copper and a drain. depending on the number of cassettes splitters may be required for the copper which have a very specific installation requirement. If there is room to remove old and run new duct work it may be a better choice to go conventional. Mini splits can be costly. You can zone a conventional system with zone dampeners and zone stats to a zoning stat. Based on your sq footage without seeing the house and the amount of existing duct work and it's sizing I would estimate that you will need a 2 1/2 or three ton. Either way you go make sure you do your homework because not all contractors specialize in mini splits or are proficient in working on them. The same goes for zoning a duct system. Just my 2 cents.


"Skin that smokewagon and see what happens"
Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236302
04/06/21 09:32 AM
04/06/21 09:32 AM
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Southern NJ
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Just one more thought on mini-splits. You can get systems that run multiple evaporators (indoor units) on a single condenser (outdoor unit). And you can get controls that allow a single thermostat to control multiple units. I've set them up like this before and won't do it again because you loose redundancy. If one piece of equipment fails, it can take out all of your mini-splits. I now install separate, stand-alone systems.


-Ryan
Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236346
04/06/21 10:33 AM
04/06/21 10:33 AM
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Asheville, NC
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Homeowners insurance does not cover wear and tear, rot, or corrosion. It covers perils
A rule of thumb is, we insure our property against unforeseen losses rather that predictable maintenance.
We’re you asking about homeowner insurance?

Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236422
04/06/21 12:17 PM
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Thanks I appreciate the info for sure and will use it in my determination.
Most of the duct it's currently dry walled in. So that's going to be another issue in itself. I wonder if a narrow round duct can be inserted into the current duct.

Charles, thanks. yes I asked about that. The reason is 2 fold I asked about it, the only way the duct can be rusted is from water leak in the roof. And I do have a separate rider on my home owners insurance for all appliances and mechanical systems. It was a few bucks more a month. So I am curious if something like holes and rust would qualify. The sad part is the hvac is around 10 years old and without tearing apart the furnace I can't tell if water made its way into it.

Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236591
04/06/21 04:59 PM
04/06/21 04:59 PM
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Asheville, NC
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Maybe you can claim hail or ice damaged to your roof, but the damage would need to be sudden, not gradual over the years. Wind driven rain from a severe storm is covered but a roof leak may not be.

I once had a shower pan go out in an upstairs bath, and the ceiling in my den was damaged. I seem to recall that the sheet lead in the shower floor is where the pin hole leak was. Something was covered but I can’t remember. It was in the late 80s. Read your policy for the best advice. I am unfamiliar with your rider. Never sold one nor heard of it. Sounds interesting.

Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236598
04/06/21 05:10 PM
04/06/21 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by adam m
Thanks I appreciate the info for sure and will use it in my determination.
Most of the duct it's currently dry walled in. So that's going to be another issue in itself. I wonder if a narrow round duct can be inserted into the current duct.

Charles, thanks. yes I asked about that. The reason is 2 fold I asked about it, the only way the duct can be rusted is from water leak in the roof. And I do have a separate rider on my home owners insurance for all appliances and mechanical systems. It was a few bucks more a month. So I am curious if something like holes and rust would qualify. The sad part is the hvac is around 10 years old and without tearing apart the furnace I can't tell if water made its way into it.

The reason for a galvanized duct to rust is probably from warm moist air contacting cold duct work. This can cause water stains around the ceiling/wall supply air grilles. Improperly insulated or uninsulated duct work in an unconditioned space like an attic or wall with air leaks. These are the most common causes. You can't put a smaller duct inside the duct work you have. That would cause you to loose enough air flow to cool the space. You could install a high velocity air conditioning system that uses 2 1/2" insulated duct hose.

Last edited by vermontster; 04/06/21 05:21 PM. Reason: no remarks posted

The bitterness of poor quality last a lot longer than the sweetness of low price
Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7236629
04/06/21 05:51 PM
04/06/21 05:51 PM
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Charles thanks. I'll look into it. From my understanding it's a fairly new rider only a few carriers are offering. When I was shopping for insurance the huge name company I wanted to use (with the best rates for home and auto) hadn't rolled their rider out yet. It's supposed to be rolled out soon. Once it does I'm switching to it because it was a richer policy for less.
I know there's stand alone policies for appliances and mechanical systems.

Vermontster, that's good to know, thanks. it's a bad duct job and roof leak all the way around. There's a huge water mark where the leak pooled onto the duct in the attic, rust all over, no insulation installed, very few sealed joints huge dents and holes throughout. The inspectors here don't go inside the attics don't open anything other than doors and faucets and visually inspect stuff. The upside is the roof is in good shape according to the inspectors and roofers.

Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7237227
04/07/21 11:23 AM
04/07/21 11:23 AM
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Kenai AK
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Originally Posted by adam m
The inspectors here don't go inside the attics don't open anything other than doors and faucets and visually inspect stuff. The upside is the roof is in good shape according to the inspectors and roofers.


That's crazy man! Most of the significance issues in a house are best checked in thr attic and crawlspace- leaks, mold, condensation, structural sagging, rot etc. I can't believe the banks let the inspectors get away with that.


Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Boco couldn't catch a cold.

But if he did, it would be Top Lot.
Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7240421
04/10/21 10:56 PM
04/10/21 10:56 PM
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adam m Offline OP
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Neither can I. Not sure if it's law here or the inspectors policy.
Found a mini split system that might work for my house. Some hvac guys want to run 2 condensers but this system uses 1 condenser and can have upto 8 zones. Currently the master suit is the real pain to run duct. One of the indoor unit options include a framed picture looking unit and needs no duct.

Either way I might have to upgrade my panel to add a 220. Currently have a 100 amp panel.

Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7240506
04/11/21 03:37 AM
04/11/21 03:37 AM
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Your panel is probably 220v even if it's only 100 amp. The determining factor if you need to upgrade it is the total amp load.


Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Boco couldn't catch a cold.

But if he did, it would be Top Lot.
Re: Hvac question [Re: adam m] #7240735
04/11/21 12:54 PM
04/11/21 12:54 PM
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Not sure. I know the box has 7 of 16 circuits available and the amperage isn't written on the box anywhere.

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