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When to till WINTER RYE? #7237457
04/07/21 06:01 PM
04/07/21 06:01 PM
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080808 Offline OP
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Does it have to be minimum height to till into garden soil?

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7237596
04/07/21 08:07 PM
04/07/21 08:07 PM
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Georgia
warrior Offline
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I don't think so but definitely before it sets seed. I'm seeing stuff online where some are using special rollers and crimper to lay it down and kill it then planting large seeds and transplants straight into it as mulch.

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7237618
04/07/21 08:21 PM
04/07/21 08:21 PM
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Frazee, MN
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backroadsarcher Offline
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I would say as long as it is green. It will act like green manure.

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7237638
04/07/21 08:39 PM
04/07/21 08:39 PM
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NE NE
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Wife Offline
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Kill the rye at 8-12" height depending on your garden water requirements. Rolling/crimping is one way to kill it. Glyphosate would be a better choice and improve the garden soil to boot. Tilling negates most of the benefits of a rye cover crop. If in doubt try half tilled against half killed with a herbicide or rolled for 3 years and then make a comparison. Not to beleaguer the phrase but " Follow the Science" and it points to a lot healthier soil structure when you forgo the tillage. I have no-tilled my 2 acre garden for almost 15 years and raise the common homeowner crops ( potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, sweet corn - Indian corn - broom corn, pumpkins-squash, onions, green beans and recently snow peas). Have used oats, rye, clovers and buckwheat with good success. Stick mostly with clover now for its ability to fix N and smother weeds but still use rye when the need arises............. the mike

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7237833
04/07/21 11:43 PM
04/07/21 11:43 PM
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g smith Offline
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I always thought it had to be rolled over to rot down the green but wife way is more modern . When you let get to a foot the ground is supplying it with more N than if is 10 inches however there is more mass to bring the N back up . Not sure .I bet big ag could tell you but why line their pockets ! If sustainable ag and organics used their science (big ag )and brains who knows the what the ground would do . I wish you well and a good crop . If you let it get over 8 in I would guess you would have to use something like a moldboard plow then rollow harrow it down . when I use tillage I regret all those worms I disturb and kill .I do not see the worms I use to have since I started using a small amt of Roundup and commercial fertilizer but it could be other factors too .


You can ride a fast horse slow but you can't ride a slow horse fast .
Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: g smith] #7238278
04/08/21 02:49 PM
04/08/21 02:49 PM
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East-Central Wisconsin
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There is no specific height for winter rye as a green manure crop. The taller you let it get, the more lignin and cellulose you have and it takes more nutrients from the soil to break it down. Later it will add value but not early when soil temps are not warm enough to have the organisms to start degrading the plant matter. Also just rolling or limiting tillage with winter rye may not get you a clean kill and the rye could continue to compete against your later planted crops. As stated above spraying and not tilling preserves the most organic matter. Dead growth does not look like much compared to green growth but from a dry matter aspect there is not much difference. It will take a bit longer to degrade the top growth if not tilled but in actuality much of the organic matter and nutrients is in the soil with the roots.

Bryce

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7238286
04/08/21 03:06 PM
04/08/21 03:06 PM
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If you are going the "roll and crimp" method it should be done in the early boot stage.

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7238293
04/08/21 03:16 PM
04/08/21 03:16 PM
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havelock, NC
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When the seed begins to milk, crimp it. No need for an herbicide. Just roll/crimp it and plant into it.


"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living; the world owes you nothing; it was here first. "
--Mark Twain.

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7238301
04/08/21 03:25 PM
04/08/21 03:25 PM
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080808 Offline OP
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Only a 3/4 acre vegetable garden. Can it be mowed then 3-4 days later tilled in?

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7238865
04/09/21 06:59 AM
04/09/21 06:59 AM
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Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7238980
04/09/21 10:06 AM
04/09/21 10:06 AM
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S.E. Ohio
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M.Magis Offline
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S.E. Ohio
Some people make it seem more difficult than it is. There's no "wrong" way. By far the biggest benefit from the rye has already taken place, and that's using it as a cover crop through the winter. The organic matter that it will add is fairly minimal, and no matter when or how you kill it off, it will still end up in the soil eventually. But yes, you can mow it and then till it in a few days later.
If people want to get nitpicky, and I'm sure some do, the act of the rye decomposing into organic matter will tie up some nitrogen and leave less available to the plants. But again, the difference is probably negligible.

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: Wife] #7238998
04/09/21 10:34 AM
04/09/21 10:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,565
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Originally Posted by Wife
Kill the rye at 8-12" height depending on your garden water requirements. Rolling/crimping is one way to kill it. Glyphosate would be a better choice and improve the garden soil to boot. Tilling negates most of the benefits of a rye cover crop. If in doubt try half tilled against half killed with a herbicide or rolled for 3 years and then make a comparison. Not to beleaguer the phrase but " Follow the Science" and it points to a lot healthier soil structure when you forgo the tillage. I have no-tilled my 2 acre garden for almost 15 years and raise the common homeowner crops ( potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, sweet corn - Indian corn - broom corn, pumpkins-squash, onions, green beans and recently snow peas). Have used oats, rye, clovers and buckwheat with good success. Stick mostly with clover now for its ability to fix N and smother weeds but still use rye when the need arises............. the mike

Since numerous studies have linked glyphosate to being a probable carcinogen why would you put poison on ground from which you will be eating?

Having grown rye many times as a green manure here is the thing: If you let it produce the maximum amount of biomass it can be over 6' tall just as seed heads are being produced in late spring and this will return the maximum amount of good organic material to your plot. The problem is it will take a long time to break all that down and you won't be able to grow a garden for about 3-4 weeks later at the soonest. So your better option may b e to take it down before it hits max returns to the soil.


"Can't we all just get along?" ---Rodney King (1991)
Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7239004
04/09/21 10:40 AM
04/09/21 10:40 AM
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Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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I once grew a crop of tetra petkus grain rye and by late May when I tilled it down (cover crop disc) it was so tall I had to stand up on the tractor to take a bearing on a distant landmark to not get lost. It was nearly 8' tall!


"Can't we all just get along?" ---Rodney King (1991)
Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: beaverpeeler] #7239022
04/09/21 11:12 AM
04/09/21 11:12 AM
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S.E. Ohio
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M.Magis Offline
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Originally Posted by beaverpeeler

Since numerous studies have linked glyphosate to being a probable carcinogen why would you put poison on ground from which you will be eating?
.

Glyphosate has NEVER been linked to any type of cancer. Out of thousands upon thousands of studies done, specifically to prove that it causes cancer, not one single link has ever been found. It was given the classification of "probable carcinogen" by the WHO because of their obvious agenda. The term "probably carcinogen" means there is zero proof that it's harmful, but we don't like it so we want to create a classification to scare people.
Ironic that there are actually people that get sick and die from things like covid, but some here want to act like it's all pretend. Then there's something that has no indication of being unsafe yet they think its poison. BTW, sawdust is a PROVEN carcinogen. Seems odd I don't see any warnings about that... Use your head.

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7239038
04/09/21 11:44 AM
04/09/21 11:44 AM
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Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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The fact that a class action suit forced a 2 billion dollar settlement from glyphosate manufacturer Bayer is close enough to proof for me.

Plus, how convincing are studies stating it to be safe when 99% of them were either authored or funded by Bayer or Monsanto?

Last edited by beaverpeeler; 04/09/21 11:58 AM.

"Can't we all just get along?" ---Rodney King (1991)
Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7239565
04/09/21 10:54 PM
04/09/21 10:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 486
NE NE
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Wife Offline
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NE NE
If you believe the T.V. commercials of attorneys seeking "clients" as a true, factual representation of scientific fact then...I guess you can. Attorneys on those sites are like attorneys everywhere --- they DO NOT want to go to court for a judgement. They want to "threaten and settle", collect their 40% and do it again with some other deep pockets. Oh if you want to see a dangerous study, go check out the LD 50 rating for glyphosate compared to common aspirin or table salt and tell me which one is more dangerous and which one America throws down their throat ON A REGULAR BASIS................ Give me strength Lord................... the mike

Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7239585
04/09/21 11:17 PM
04/09/21 11:17 PM
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Posts: 5,565
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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I feel bad to have taken this thread off in a different direction, no offense, but LD 50's (lethal dose 50% mortality) tell us very little about a substances carcinogenic potential.


"Can't we all just get along?" ---Rodney King (1991)
Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7239632
04/10/21 12:52 AM
04/10/21 12:52 AM
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Mt.
g smith Offline
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Well you may have "cross threaded " but you are one heck of a farmer ! I was lucky to get a little hay as my sheep were on it too long in the spring ! I have become lazy and use it sparingly !


You can ride a fast horse slow but you can't ride a slow horse fast .
Re: When to till WINTER RYE? [Re: 080808] #7239634
04/10/21 12:57 AM
04/10/21 12:57 AM
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wyoming
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WyFurHarvesters Offline
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wyoming
Why would you ever want to apply roundup? let it rot out way to much chemical in the soils.

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