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Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240138
04/10/21 04:07 PM
04/10/21 04:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,348
smithfield, virginia
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flash Offline OP
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flash  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
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smithfield, virginia
Maybe the God given right is the fact that he gave us a soul to make the right decisions for all his creations. He's been a part of America since day one. I would hate to think he would want us to sit back and watch everything we stand for be thrown to the way side. Yes, his creation of man has had its ups and downs but in the long run we learned to always have him on our side. Never Forsake Us Oh Lord.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: James] #7240152
04/10/21 04:29 PM
04/10/21 04:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,817
Iowa
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trapdog1 Offline
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trapdog1  Offline
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Iowa
Originally Posted by James
Originally Posted by trapdog1
James, you've already demonstrated you don't care about your 2A rights. I know you said you didn't think creepy joe was serious, but I know you're not that stupid.


You guys need to make up your minds: am I stupid, or clever?

Jim


I didn't say you weren't stupid. I said you weren't THAT stupid.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240162
04/10/21 04:37 PM
04/10/21 04:37 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,091
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Southern Illinois
I know its in the "Old" but what does Ex 22 mean when it says "2 “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed."

I don't understand what Hobbie means by God is used by believers and non-believers just defend themselves by any means but I suspect there is a trace of "whatever will be, will be " in there some where. That makes as much sense as saying Jesus made grape juice instead of real wine because God would never enable people to hurt others, but without dynamite how would this land ever have been cleared for farming?

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240171
04/10/21 04:52 PM
04/10/21 04:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,256
Magna, Utah
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GritGuy Offline
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Magna, Utah
Have not read all these replies, however my simple minded conclusion of the argument is that the constitution was based for the continuous life of this country as written and not to be infringed upon with more change to it's basic script.

Adding more to it as more amendments is a court thing, which should be closely watched, as in stacking the court, which is obviously why the Democrats wish to add more members now, due to them continually losing in this area of our country's workings.

This written document say's what it needs and does not in my view say anything else, whether one looks at it today in our vernacular or whether you see it for what it is meant for the life of the country, which is what it should be looked for, not for use as a new invented, reverified, newly discovered meaning something for just a certain few who can't seem to get over the fact that those who wrote it were obviously looking forward in our country's future use of it !


[Linked Image]

Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240181
04/10/21 05:02 PM
04/10/21 05:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,366
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
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rex123  Offline
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KY.usa
That is not why he gave you a soul.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240183
04/10/21 05:03 PM
04/10/21 05:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,885
Sandhills Nebraska
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Gary Benson Offline
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Sandhills Nebraska
Self-defense is a natural reflex.......yet some holier-than-thou's think they can call you a criminal after the fact for defending yourself. That's why society is in the mess it's in. Humans are doing things to their own that the most vicious of wild animals don't do....yet we are the dominant species on earth. Pretty scary. Scarier than a ghost gun.


I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: rex123] #7240188
04/10/21 05:08 PM
04/10/21 05:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,997
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Posco  Offline
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Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by rex123
I have a question . I keep hearing my GOD given rights a lot , please show me where I can find a list of these rights. They aren't in the bible. It gives you the choice to have salvation but I don't see these rights some of you keep quoting.

You are correct.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: Posco] #7240228
04/10/21 05:59 PM
04/10/21 05:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 31,610
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Posts: 31,610
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Posco
Originally Posted by rex123
I have a question . I keep hearing my GOD given rights a lot , please show me where I can find a list of these rights. They aren't in the bible. It gives you the choice to have salvation but I don't see these rights some of you keep quoting.

You are correct.


They are Natural Rights. Human rights. They come with you at birth.....like a warranty.

The earliest discussions of natural law and natural rights were among the ancient Greeks about 1500 BC.

You can find them alluded to, obliquely, in Romans 2, 14&15

You can also find them alluded to in the Declaration of Independence, which specifically cites Natural Law and Nature's God.

"........certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". These are all natural rights. Not created by man.

I find it interesting that it specifies the right to life.........which therefore must have a corollary that represents the human right to self defense. How else to secure the unalienable right to life ??

Seems to me this is integral to the 2nd amendment and arguments over what it permits and doesn't permit


Mean As Nails
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7240239
04/10/21 06:15 PM
04/10/21 06:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,570
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

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Posts: 19,570
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Foxpaw


I don't understand what Hobbie means by God is used by believers and non-believers just defend themselves by any means but I suspect there is a trace of "whatever will be, will be " in there some where. That makes as much sense as saying Jesus made grape juice instead of real wine because God would never enable people to hurt others, but without dynamite how would this land ever have been cleared for farming?


Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper


God is used by believers because that is where they are born from. A nonbeliever still believes they are born with a right to defend themselves by whatever means necessary.


-Goofy-
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: James] #7240482
04/11/21 01:07 AM
04/11/21 01:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,155
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
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martentrapper Offline
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Originally Posted by James
I'll work within our established political system--Congress, the courts, and local officials--to try to preserve our rights.

Jim


Would we be having this discussion if our founders had thought the same way!

I say there are only 2 kinds of rights.................those that you hold and protect by force. Those you are willingly granted by your neighbors.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240485
04/11/21 01:18 AM
04/11/21 01:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,866
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
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Marty  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
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North East Kansas
This simplified list of human rights, for example, is from a United Nations document created in 1948, “A Universal Declaration of Human Rights.” If you are looking for God-given rights, representatives from around the world agreed that these are the birthright of every human being. The complete version of this document can be downloaded for free from the internet.

We Are All Born Free & Equal.We all have our own thoughts and ideas, our own goals and values. We should all be treated in the same way. No exceptions.
Don’t Discriminate.These rights belong to everybody, whatever our differences, no exceptions. We cannot give them to some and take them away from others, or give some to one person and others to someone else.
The Right to Life.We all have the right to life, and to live in freedom and safety. We should work to keep others from being abandoned or forgotten by society, so that all people can live their lives. Childhood needs to be protected by all adults for all children.
No Slavery.Nobody has any right to make us a slave. We cannot make anyone our slave.
No Torture. Nobody has any right to hurt us or to torture us.
You Have Rights No Matter Where You Go.These rights travel with you, from home to work to school, in private and public, from state to state, from country to country.
We’re All Equal Before the Law. The law is the same for everyone. It must treat us all fairly. The laws apply to everyone equally, no exceptions.
Your Human Rights Are Protected by Law.We can all ask for the law to help us when we are not treated fairly.
No Unfair Detainment.Nobody has the right to put us in prison without good reason and keep us there, or to send us away from our country.
The Right to Trial.If we are put on trial, this should be in public. The people who try us should not let anyone tell them what to do.
We’re Always Innocent Until Proven Guilty.Nobody should be blamed for doing something until it is proven. When people say we did a bad thing we have the right to show it is not true.
The Right to Privacy.Nobody should try to harm our good name. Nobody has the right to come into our home, open our letters, or bother us or our family without a good reason.
Freedom to Move. We all have the right to go where we want in our own country and to travel as we wish.
The Right to Seek a Safe Place to Live.If we are frightened of being badly treated in our own country, we all have the right to run away to another country to be safe.
Right to a Nationality.We all have the right to belong to a country, even if we had to flee our country of origin.
Marriage and Family. Every grown-up has the right to marry and have a family if they want to. Men and women have the same rights when they are married, and when they are separated.
The Right to Your Own Things. Everyone has the right to own things or share them. Nobody should take our things from us without a good reason.
Freedom of Thought. We all have the right to believe in what we want to believe, to have a religion, or to change it if we want.
Freedom of Expression. We all have the right to make up our own minds, to think what we like, to say what we think, and to share our ideas with other people.
The Right to Public Assembly. We all have the right to meet our friends and to work together in peace to defend our rights. Nobody can make us join a group if we don’t want to.
The Right to Democracy. We all have the right to take part in the government of our country. Every grown-up should be allowed to choose their own leaders.
Social Security. We all have the right to affordable housing, medicine, education, and childcare, enough money to live on and medical help if we are ill or old.
Workers’ Rights. Every grown-up has the right to do a job, to receive a fair wage for their work, and to join a trade union.
The Right to Play. We all have the right to rest from work and to relax.
Food and Shelter for All. We all have the right to a good life. Mothers and children, people who are old, unemployed or disabled, and all people have the right to be cared for.
The Right to Education. Education is a right. Primary school should be free. We should learn about the United Nations and how to get along with others.
Copyright. Copyright is a special law that protects one’s own artistic creations and writings; others cannot make copies without permission. We all have the right to our own way of life and to enjoy the good things that art, science and learning bring.
A Fair and Free World. There must be proper order so we can all enjoy rights and freedoms in our own country and all over the world.
Responsibility. We have a duty to other people, and we should protect their rights and freedoms.
No One Can Take Away Your Human Rights.




"Live Free or Die..."
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240486
04/11/21 01:25 AM
04/11/21 01:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,866
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
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Marty  Offline
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North East Kansas
Do not believe in God?
That's OK, you still have been born with certain and unalienable rights....just like the man who does not believe in the sun is still warmed by its rays....just like the man who realizes that the sun is there.


"Live Free or Die..."
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: Marty] #7240489
04/11/21 01:55 AM
04/11/21 01:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,997
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Posco  Offline
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Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by Marty
Do not believe in God?
That's OK, you still have been born with certain and unalienable rights....just like the man who does not believe in the sun is still warmed by its rays....just like the man who realizes that the sun is there.



You are an autonomous and sovereign human being. We tend to forget that.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240491
04/11/21 02:09 AM
04/11/21 02:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 30,895
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Sovereign Citizen they call themselves.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: James] #7240547
04/11/21 07:19 AM
04/11/21 07:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,237
MI.
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Feedinggrounds Offline
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Posts: 1,237
MI.
Originally Posted by James
Originally Posted by trapdog1
James, you've already demonstrated you don't care about your 2A rights. I know you said you didn't think creepy joe was serious, but I know you're not that stupid.


You guys need to make up your minds: am I stupid, or clever?

Jim

No....


your only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240549
04/11/21 07:22 AM
04/11/21 07:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,237
MI.
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Feedinggrounds Offline
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Feedinggrounds  Offline
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MI.
We can hammer our swords into plow shares, and hammer our plow shares back into swords....That may not be a "right", but it is right....


your only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240623
04/11/21 09:42 AM
04/11/21 09:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,784
SE WI
DuxDawg Online sleepy
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SE WI
[Linked Image]


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
"We are fast approaching... rule by brute force."
-Ayn Rand
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240634
04/11/21 10:15 AM
04/11/21 10:15 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,546
mn north of blakely
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Steven 49er Offline
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Posts: 7,546
mn north of blakely
Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by James
Okay. So go down to the federal courthouse and shout, "Bomb!" and see what happens.

Jim



You prove my point...and that of Justice Holmes. Speech that is dangerous and TRUE is protected by the first amendment. Speech that is dangerous and FALSE is not


Forget it Ken, he will ignore yours or anyone's point when he's wrong.

If James wanted to compare apples to apples the SC should have erased "bomb" or "fire" from the dictionary

It's the intent that's been banned no inanimate words. Guns are inanimate objects until someone uses them for a nefarious purpose

It will have to get worse before it gets better

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240652
04/11/21 10:37 AM
04/11/21 10:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,366
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
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KY.usa
Marty, your list of rights is and was written by man. My question was where is this list of GOD given rights everyone keeps quoting?

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7240658
04/11/21 10:48 AM
04/11/21 10:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,885
Sandhills Nebraska
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Gary Benson Offline
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Sandhills Nebraska
Go forth and multiply is one for starters. We seem to be doing a bang-up job of that!


I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???
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