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Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240290
04/10/21 07:28 PM
04/10/21 07:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,995
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,995
Oregon
If it was pale you were golden. Singe...what's that? Who cares!


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: beaverpeeler] #7240426
04/10/21 11:09 PM
04/10/21 11:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,211
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
W
wy.wolfer Offline
trapper
wy.wolfer  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,211
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
In the last few years of Nafa's existence many felt that their grading had gone downhill, eroding buyers confidence. In that regard FHA had them beat, in particular when it came to beaver.

Dead right on this Carl. The "Chinese Grade" literally put some small manufacturers out of business, beaver is a good example with Montreal beaver garment specialist's, wild mink another. Fontani's in Milan used to produce the world's finest wild mink garments, but they had to be very carefully matched. They succumbed to not only getting older but not adapting to finding another source of finely graded wild mink skins. NAFA had at one time literally dozens of sections of wild mink. At the end they only had three to my knowledge. The gist of this post is that accurate grading is even more important with wild fur than it is with ranched goods. I do have to agree that their internet skills could use significant improvement, pretty outdated!

Last edited by wy.wolfer; 04/10/21 11:14 PM.
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: nimzy] #7240478
04/11/21 12:36 AM
04/11/21 12:36 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
Originally Posted by nimzy
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Larry, you had to learn the hard way. FHA has told us many times they are going to "hold" the line so to speak and then did the opposite.



Holding the line stalls cash flow, increases risk, requires additional handling and creates storage fees that can only be recovered with significant pelt price increases. As sellers we need to recognize the current environment. When things are bad we must expect bad things.


I agree in market conditions like this. But not so much in rising or strong market.

I got soured on FHA for some time because of they handled the rat market. I had a FHA agent convince me to ship rats right before the rat boom really got legs and convinced me to put them on them on the June sale. Bad on me for doing it and I take credit for my decision but those rats averaged less than two bucks and the next January they were 5 6 dollar rats. When the rat market got hot I can think of two years FHA sold the rats in their early sale for less than I was getting in the country.

I believe there is a time to hold and a time to fold.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240480
04/11/21 01:01 AM
04/11/21 01:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,995
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,995
Oregon
I've been there a time or two as well Steven.

If I had burned my bridges after every fur selling deal where I felt I got the short end of things.....I would have no more outlets left to sell fur.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240565
04/11/21 08:05 AM
04/11/21 08:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,971
WI
N
nimzy Offline
trapper
nimzy  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,971
WI
I guess I advocate auctions because I believe in the concept. The structure of competitive bidding, the idea that the more I make the more they make. When the market is poised to move the auction creates pressure, captures the action and provides full disclosure, in real time.
Flip side That exact system treads turbulent water during tough times. Many have difficulty with the transfer of power when handing over their fur. It’s frustrating to witness all the negativity associated with hind sight actions. And the loonnngggg memories of the scorned.
Perhaps I’m living in the past. If this fur market continues towards a “walmartization” with one or three “middlemen “ leading the charge Im afraid I will lose any viable supplemental income source and have to change a lifestyle. Pure selfishness I suppose.

Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240575
04/11/21 08:18 AM
04/11/21 08:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,971
WI
N
nimzy Offline
trapper
nimzy  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,971
WI
If you are a tech savvy entrepreneur we need ya! Bring this 600 year old industry into modern times and walk or should I say run away with that brass ring.

There is an opportunity to make john Jacob Astor look like a chump. Lol

Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240577
04/11/21 08:29 AM
04/11/21 08:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,975
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R Offline
trapper
8117 Steve R  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,975
Wisconsin
Buyers can wait for private sales so they don’t have to bid their top price. Private sales hurt the ave price, IMO. I would rather they sell every lot to the highest bidder. But I don’t have a large volume either.


Steve
WTA
NRA
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: 8117 Steve R] #7240584
04/11/21 08:43 AM
04/11/21 08:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,971
WI
N
nimzy Offline
trapper
nimzy  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,971
WI
Originally Posted by 8117 Steve R
Buyers can wait for private sales so they don’t have to bid their top price. Private sales hurt the ave price, IMO. I would rather they sell every lot to the highest bidder. But I don’t have a large volume either.


Not in a competitive market. PT is an aftermarket associate. A sign of weakness. Yes the auction has a responsibility to recruit active bidders (which may at times be easier said then done)

Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240591
04/11/21 08:51 AM
04/11/21 08:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635
Pottawatamie co. IA
LLtrapper Offline
"The Coon Combine"
LLtrapper  Offline
"The Coon Combine"

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635
Pottawatamie co. IA
You guys act like some including me are mad because they sold my fur cheap. You totally glance over the part where the President of FHA came out in a notification that they would not sell ANYTHING after the last day of the sale.

If I told you on the fur shed that I was selling two dozen traps for 100.00 and then sent you 23 and told you that after you sent your money would that be ok? No you would be pming me and if I did nothing to fix it you would be on here saying how I stole from you. I would be a LIAR. I said one thing and did the other. No one stole anything from me but they lied.

Also you guys say you like competitive bidding. Yes that is exactly what a true auction even on line does. When you know you can buy them cheaper with no competition there is no reason to even bid. No wonder the fur market is in the toilet. Trappers cannot figure marketing out and are willing to loose money. They figure if they make a dollar or two over the cost of gas then they have made something not taking into consideration all the other expense because after all they don't make money fishing or deer hunting. lol.

The phrase " I don't trap for the money" is the dumbest thing you could say on an open forum besides "I do it for the fun". It allows anti trappers to say those folks just like to kill things.

I trap for the money. Yes I do enjoy getting out in nature but once that is over and I have a truck load of fur to work every night the fun is gone and I want to be paid for my work. I am a skilled tradesman and do not expect to be lied to, cheated or wrote a bad check so for that reason I will no longer be shipping fur to any so called auction house until the PT room no longer exists.

An Auction house sells to the highest bidder. If it does not sell then they sell it at the next auction. NO OTHER AUCTION has a back room sale. That flies in the face of competitive bidding. If you guys cannot see that then I cannot help but think you really just need a place to dump your fur. Your bad. I am done with it for now. LLL


Isaiah 51:6 But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240603
04/11/21 09:12 AM
04/11/21 09:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,972
South Dakota
R
Rat Masterson Offline
trapper
Rat Masterson  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,972
South Dakota
An auction, like any business is great when it works. Saying no PT sales works great until there are no bids at auction. Imagine the outrage if all bids started at a dime and everything sold no matter what the price. Would the offended be satisfied then?

Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: Rat Masterson] #7240611
04/11/21 09:23 AM
04/11/21 09:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635
Pottawatamie co. IA
LLtrapper Offline
"The Coon Combine"
LLtrapper  Offline
"The Coon Combine"

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635
Pottawatamie co. IA
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
An auction, like any business is great when it works. Saying no PT sales works great until there are no bids at auction. Imagine the outrage if all bids started at a dime and everything sold no matter what the price. Would the offended be satisfied then?


Why put a value on them? They do that too. Remember these places are the heartbeat of the industry. They talk to manufacturers and end users daily. If they sold them for what they valued them at it would be more transparent than saying you will not sell them after the sale and do just the contrary. You all just don't get it I guess. The bottom line is when you are in business and you say something you are on the hook for it. I run two businesses and when I tell my customer I will or will not do something that is exactly what happens. If there is a chance I will not be able to I tell them that upfront ie. it might rain and that will put it off a day or two.

They did not see that they needed money to operate and hence the need to give our fur away cheap after saying they would not so I am the bad guy because I despise a liar. I think some of you folks are possibly part of the problem. Ship away until your check bounces from them and then some will still be willing to ship. It is laughable. LLL


Isaiah 51:6 But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240654
04/11/21 10:39 AM
04/11/21 10:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042
SE Kansas
K
K52 Offline
trapper
K52  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,042
SE Kansas
It's called the skin game for a reason and I'm not talking about the fur.

Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240720
04/11/21 12:36 PM
04/11/21 12:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
I have no problem with pt sales after a competithive auction near the going rates


Who is John Galt?
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240722
04/11/21 12:38 PM
04/11/21 12:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,995
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,995
Oregon
Good points LL. I get what you're saying. At the same time I have on more than one occasion chosen to take my fur off of a competitive local auction where only the bottom feeder buyers have bid, and shipped it north hoping to get a more realistic price. And sometimes it all comes back in my face. Generally I prefer to take my lumps up north than locally. Maybe it's because I loath giving them away to buyers I know. Guess I prefer the anonymity.

Last edited by beaverpeeler; 04/11/21 12:41 PM.

My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: Dirt] #7240774
04/11/21 02:00 PM
04/11/21 02:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635
Pottawatamie co. IA
LLtrapper Offline
"The Coon Combine"
LLtrapper  Offline
"The Coon Combine"

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,635
Pottawatamie co. IA
Originally Posted by Dirt
I have no problem with pt sales after a competithive auction near the going rates


This has not happened in a while now however. PT was for those who wanted something but needed time to communicate with the broker. Now it is the auction house being the broker as I see it. LLL


Isaiah 51:6 But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: LLtrapper] #7240811
04/11/21 02:59 PM
04/11/21 02:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by LLtrapper
Originally Posted by Dirt
I have no problem with pt sales after a competithive auction near the going rates


This has not happened in a while now however. PT was for those who wanted something but needed time to communicate with the broker. Now it is the auction house being the broker as I see it. LLL


I agree; not much auction going on.

As far as FHA telling trappers that they would not PT after the Auction: I believe they told the buyers this as the rule of that auction. Trappers were not told this prior to shipping the fur at that auction so we had no expectation of this prior to shipping. They lied to the buyers. We had hope!

Same crap different pile when NAFA had a no limit rule for buyers for coon and rats after the fur had been shipped. They didn't lie to the buyers, they (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) the shippers.


Who is John Galt?
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240893
04/11/21 05:09 PM
04/11/21 05:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
I'm not sure but I think back in the day NAFA upped the price by a small percentage once the fur went Into PT. Maybe Miss Wiss could comment on that.


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240903
04/11/21 05:15 PM
04/11/21 05:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,116
Manitoba
N
Northof50 Offline
trapper
Northof50  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,116
Manitoba
ya Beav there was a different shipping fee added on for those PT sales.

Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240927
04/11/21 05:57 PM
04/11/21 05:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,681
north Idaho
W
wissmiss Offline
trapper
wissmiss  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,681
north Idaho
The commissions and fees were the same whether it sold in the room or PT. Exact same structure.

The starting price in the PT room depended on how that species did in the auction room.

If that species sold very well in the room, the PT price would be 10% above Hammer price. No wiggle room.

If the species sold ok in the room, the PT price would start at 10% above. They might settle for hammer price, especially if you wanted a lot of skins.

If the species struggled in the auction room, they would try for hammer price and probably hold at that level. If the buyer was talking large numbers, there was some negotiating room.

I’ve been going to international auctions since 1984. There has been only one case in all those years when the PT room was a free for all. The year was probably the late 1980s. The species was bears. The magic number was $3.00. It was either yes or no on my part. There were some bears that I declined to buy at that price.

Note - on those bears, this was when you could sell any bear, even partial hides in Ontario. Now the hide has to have 20 claws to be legal to sell. I don’t recall the last time a bear sold for less than $20.00.

Except for that one time, I don’t remember ever getting a smoking good deal in the PT room. Deals, yes. But no barn burner, get filthy rich deals.


www.usedtraps.com

Please check out my updated inventory of Native American books.

Re: FURHARVESTERS [Re: ponyboy] #7240935
04/11/21 06:16 PM
04/11/21 06:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
T
The Beav Offline
trapper
The Beav  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,797
Wisconsin
Thank you Miss Wiss. Your just commenting on how NAFA ran their PT sales right?


The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
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