Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7242986
04/14/21 03:13 AM
04/14/21 03:13 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,896 Oakland, MS
Drifter
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,896
Oakland, MS
|
Probably a combination of predators with the hogs as the top one IMO.
Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.
Andrew Lang (1844-1912) Scottish poet, novelist and literary critic
Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7243093
04/14/21 08:23 AM
04/14/21 08:23 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 269 West Virginia
WV Danimal
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 269
West Virginia
|
I'd like to think that I'm helping when I can take out a nest predator but it's probably barely making a dent. There are so many coons and hogs on my place in Florida, I don't see how any nest survives but ironically the numbers there have quadrupled in the past few years. I'd love to see the turkey numbers we had 10 years ago come back again. Maybe a natural cycle?
Trash your goals and plans for life. Just wing it and you'll never be let down!
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7243135
04/14/21 09:24 AM
04/14/21 09:24 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922 east central WI
Dirty D
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922
east central WI
|
Need more coyotes, many studies by wildlife biologist have concluded that coyotes keep the population of mid-level predators down, like coons, possums and skunks. Coyotes may prey on game birds but its at a far less level of damage than the mid level predators do with their actively seeking out nests of birds. https://pheasantsforever.org/BlogLanding/Blogs/Pheasants-Forever/Like-Pheasants-Thank-a-Coyote.aspxAbove article on Pheasants forever, "Like Pheasants, thank a Coyote". NWTF says habitat and habitat quality matter more than predators, want more Turkeys? Increase your habitat and its quality. Its not predators that are the problem. This is pretty much the same for all game animals, Habitat and habitat quality have the biggest effect on populations.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7243144
04/14/21 09:45 AM
04/14/21 09:45 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,105 7mtns of CENTRAL PA
GROUSEWIT
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,105
7mtns of CENTRAL PA
|
The turkey population in PA is going down fast and the Fisher and Bobcat population are on the rise. Then throw in the uncontrolled avian predator population too.
But it's the habitat!!!!
NRALIFER,PRPA LIFER,HUNTER,FURTAKER
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7243145
04/14/21 09:46 AM
04/14/21 09:46 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,109 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,109
South Ga - Almost Florida
|
Turkey population has been on a slow decline for more than 12 years here.
There were not many trappers here prior to or now. Predator popluations are about same as always.
Baiting deer has been occurring for 30 plus years. Been legal to hunt deer over bait for about 10 years.
Some of the highest turkey populations in Florida also have high wild hog populations....same here.
Next season, Georgia is reducing limit of gobblers and shortening season.....which will not help increase turkey numbers. We have never allowed hens to be taken and we do not have a fall season....yet the hens are disappearing too.
The declining turkey population is not due to any one factor. It is a combination of many factors, especially successive years of poor hatchings and including diseases such as fowl pox, that whittle away at a reduced population, making it slower to increase numbers.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: GROUSEWIT]
#7243156
04/14/21 09:54 AM
04/14/21 09:54 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922 east central WI
Dirty D
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922
east central WI
|
The turkey population in PA is going down fast and the Fisher and Bobcat population are on the rise. Then throw in the uncontrolled avian predator population too.
But it's the habitat!!!!
Show us one study that shows predators are the #1 factor for limiting game populations. I have never seen one, Habitat is always #1 cause. Fewer rabbits around here, can't be the elimination of fence lines to crop land, its gotta be the hawks
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Yotegiter]
#7243159
04/14/21 10:00 AM
04/14/21 10:00 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,366 east central WI
k snow
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,366
east central WI
|
I hear the habit loss arguments, but I can honestly say that there has been very little change in the land scape here in SW OK in the last 20-30 yrs. I wish I could know the real reason for loss of turkey because I’d do all I could to reverse it Farming practice changes? I wonder with the bigger, faster equipment, are more poults getting chopped up in alfalfa/hay/wheat/bean fields when they harvest.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: WV Danimal]
#7243167
04/14/21 10:13 AM
04/14/21 10:13 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,109 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,109
South Ga - Almost Florida
|
Either way, when I get out of prison in just over 3 years I project the population to significantly be reduced across the entire country in several states thereafter as long as my health holds up and I can get after them! Even Mexico actually if all goes well and I can still travel Lol! You must be a bowhunter.
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: k snow]
#7243177
04/14/21 10:28 AM
04/14/21 10:28 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,663 S.E. Ohio
M.Magis
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,663
S.E. Ohio
|
Farming practice changes? I wonder with the bigger, faster equipment, are more poults getting chopped up in alfalfa/hay/wheat/bean fields when they harvest.
Can't speak for everywhere, but there have been zero changes in farming around here in the last 10 years. Same for habitat changes, none. It's worth noting that many of the areas experiencing turkey population decreases are in areas that have experienced little to no farming or habitat changes for decades. The study noted in the OP is being done on public hunting ground in GA. Large tracts of timber, the land and habitat haven't changed for many many years. Nothing around my place has changed for as long as I remember, and the turkey numbers are drastically different than they were 10 years ago. I won't pretend to know the exact cause, but habitat loss and farming are certainly not part of it.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: claycreech]
#7243235
04/14/21 11:46 AM
04/14/21 11:46 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059 Ky
jbyrd63
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059
Ky
|
Declining turkey populations are occurring nearly everywhere. Missouri’s turkey numbers are a fraction of what it was 15 years ago. In the heyday turkey could be found in marginal habitat. Not anymore. Only the best has a few birds, and even then they aren’t in any numbers. In our county we used to kill around 800 turkey during a spring season. Now we check less than 300. Conservation Department acts like they could care less. We still have a fall shotgun season during which you can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Fall archery deer hunters can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Why they won’t stop all harvest of hens is beyond stupid. Cutting edge wildlife management. You don’t need a PHD, just common sense to protect hens when the population is so low. This certainly isn’t the only answer, but it’s a regulation change that makes sense and would give the appearance that the Conservation Department gives a crap about our turkey populations and not just about selling permits. Not here in Ky got turkeys in almost every hay field.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Scooby]
#7243237
04/14/21 11:48 AM
04/14/21 11:48 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059 Ky
jbyrd63
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059
Ky
|
One problem is all the corn that gets fed to deer in the south now. Millions of pounds of food now available to all the animals in the woods. Creates larger predator populations and very few people putting forth any effort to control them. I believe that GA and Alabama are starting turkey season a week later next year to allow the more mature toms longer to mate before the hunters can get them. Jakes can breed them if the tom doesn't whip his butt . So lack of toms not a miniscule reason for lower numbers.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: GROUSEWIT]
#7243240
04/14/21 11:58 AM
04/14/21 11:58 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194 Maine, Aroostook
Posco
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
|
The turkey population in PA is going down fast and the Fisher and Bobcat population are on the rise. Then throw in the uncontrolled avian predator population too.
But it's the habitat!!!!
Maybe there is no correlation but the turkey population near me nosedived as the bobcat numbers increased. I did see six hens this morning near my cabin which was encouraging but there where thirty hens in there three or four years ago. Last year I saw a solitary hen, period. Edit Fisher numbers seem to be way up as well. Never really thought of them as much of a threat to the turkey population but I don't know.
Last edited by Posco; 04/14/21 12:00 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7243247
04/14/21 12:04 PM
04/14/21 12:04 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 269 West Virginia
WV Danimal
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 269
West Virginia
|
Didn't have this problem until some really bored guy somewhere introduced the ultimate predator: the almighty .410 with TSS 9 shot! Just ask those guys on the internet lol....
Trash your goals and plans for life. Just wing it and you'll never be let down!
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7243332
04/14/21 01:52 PM
04/14/21 01:52 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,117 Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
Hodagtrapper
Muskrat Master
|
Muskrat Master
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,117
Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
|
As others have mentioned, the turkey population decreasing is due to a multitude of factors. I do believe that larger/increasing predator populations make a big difference with nesting success. Less trappers catching coon, skunk, fox, coyotes, bobcat and the highly sought after opossum can only cause the turkey population to decline IMO.
Chris
>>In God we trust<<
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7243434
04/14/21 04:59 PM
04/14/21 04:59 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922 east central WI
Dirty D
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922
east central WI
|
Just because a chunk of land is left "wild" doesn't mean its Good turkey habitat. As time goes on, say 20 years, Habitat quality will decrease if trees are allowed to over take the brush and open tall grassy areas and turn them into forest.
Heavy thinning of forests, burning of grassy areas and woodlands are all good for Turkey habitat.
Same with Deer, Not all chunks of "wild" and are equal in deer habitat. Again, thinning of the forest, bushy grassy areas are better than mature forest.
bblwi, lack of oaks is due to primarily 2 things in E central WI, high deer population and too dense of forest. White Oaks will not regenerate in a mature forest. They need sunlight unlike Sugar Maples and Beech. Want more Oaks? thin the deer herd and clear cut chunks of forest. cutting only won't do it. Many hard wood forest in our area have mature White Oaks but zero seedling/sapling Oaks. Once the mature Oaks are gone there are not any younger oaks for the next generation.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: ~ADC~]
#7243455
04/14/21 05:25 PM
04/14/21 05:25 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292 SE Iowa
seiowatrapper
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 292
SE Iowa
|
Very few places have more raccoons than Iowa and we have a crapload of turkeys. I saw 3 road-killed in an 8 mile stretch of hwy yesterday just out of town. FWIW, at my farm in SE Iowa I estimate that we have 10%-15% of the turkey population now as opposed to 12+ years ago...and that estimate might be high. I hear exactly the same thing from people all over Davis and Van Buren Counties, where I know a lot of people.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7243494
04/14/21 06:15 PM
04/14/21 06:15 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,105 7mtns of CENTRAL PA
GROUSEWIT
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,105
7mtns of CENTRAL PA
|
In the 60's we had real big flocks of turkies in northern PA. Then they started protecting hawks and owls. (Bye bye pole traps) Next was introducing fishers. Bobcats getting more plentiful enough to start a hunting an trapping season. Coyotes getting more plentiful. No fur mkt-big increase of nest raiders-skunks, coon, & possums.
But its the habitat-gotta quit beating this dead horse!!!
NRALIFER,PRPA LIFER,HUNTER,FURTAKER
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7243762
04/14/21 11:54 PM
04/14/21 11:54 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 381 Southern Ohio
Ohiowoodchuck
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 381
Southern Ohio
|
I had a nwtf biologists come to my place. My complaint was turkeys weren’t staying around in the spring. They would usually stay during the winter and roost in the pines. He suggested to me I need better habitat for them. We drew up a plan to clear 8 acres and plant in grasses. I just got finished this year and seeded the first of March. I can report already that I have seen several turkeys feeding in it. I’m getting pictures of strutting Tom’s and five to six hens feeding all hours of the day. I do my best to keep all the predators thinned.
Last edited by Ohiowoodchuck; 04/14/21 11:58 PM.
“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.” — Thomas Paine
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: claycreech]
#7243913
04/15/21 10:11 AM
04/15/21 10:11 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,108 mo.
nate
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,108
mo.
|
Declining turkey populations are occurring nearly everywhere. Missouri’s turkey numbers are a fraction of what it was 15 years ago. In the heyday turkey could be found in marginal habitat. Not anymore. Only the best has a few birds, and even then they aren’t in any numbers. In our county we used to kill around 800 turkey during a spring season. Now we check less than 300. Conservation Department acts like they could care less. We still have a fall shotgun season during which you can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Fall archery deer hunters can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Why they won’t stop all harvest of hens is beyond stupid. Cutting edge wildlife management. You don’t need a PHD, just common sense to protect hens when the population is so low. This certainly isn’t the only answer, but it’s a regulation change that makes sense and would give the appearance that the Conservation Department gives a crap about our turkey populations and not just about selling permits. MDC concluded years ago that the fall hunt doesn't hurt the turkey population. Some of us enjoy the fall hunt. What does hurt is wet springs, predators and pesticides. We can't do anything about the wet springs, but the trapping season should be open first week of Nov. It would help eliminate a ton of skunks and coons. Blame monsanto and farmers on the other no till is a joke, there's no ponds now before no till we had wildlife now we have poison food/feed.
Last edited by nate; 04/15/21 10:35 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: nate]
#7244191
04/15/21 04:35 PM
04/15/21 04:35 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,686 Sumner, Mo.
claycreech
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,686
Sumner, Mo.
|
Declining turkey populations are occurring nearly everywhere. Missouri’s turkey numbers are a fraction of what it was 15 years ago. In the heyday turkey could be found in marginal habitat. Not anymore. Only the best has a few birds, and even then they aren’t in any numbers. In our county we used to kill around 800 turkey during a spring season. Now we check less than 300. Conservation Department acts like they could care less. We still have a fall shotgun season during which you can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Fall archery deer hunters can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Why they won’t stop all harvest of hens is beyond stupid. Cutting edge wildlife management. You don’t need a PHD, just common sense to protect hens when the population is so low. This certainly isn’t the only answer, but it’s a regulation change that makes sense and would give the appearance that the Conservation Department gives a crap about our turkey populations and not just about selling permits. MDC concluded years ago that the fall hunt doesn't hurt the turkey population. Some of us enjoy the fall hunt. What does hurt is wet springs, predators and pesticides. We can't do anything about the wet springs, but the trapping season should be open first week of Nov. It would help eliminate a ton of skunks and coons. Blame monsanto and farmers on the other no till is a joke, there's no ponds now before no till we had wildlife now we have poison food/feed. Nate, I agreed with MDC years ago, however years ago we had tons of turkey. I love to fall hunt. Targeting adult gobblers in the fall was one of my favorite hunts. I haven’t fall hunted since 2010. I killed a gobbler and a hen that season and felt bad that I did. Population bounces back I’ll go again, but I don’t look for it to happen. I’m speaking for North Missouri. Biologists have completely quit using common sense when making regulation decisions. I’m all for wildlife research, however common sense and public perception need to come into play. Since the beginning of time it has been illegal to harvest hen pheasants. Guarantee there wasn’t a research study used to justify that regulation. It just makes sense. The turkey harvest in my county has declined nearly 70 percent from our peak. Large blocks have none or next to zero turkey. I’m not saying that stopping the harvest of hens will cure the decline. I’m saying it’s logical not to kill hens when the population is steadily declining. MDC refuses to acknowledge predation as a cause of decline as well. Then they want to double the length of the season by going to all day hunting when the population is in serious long term decline. We need hook and bullet biologists and administrators again.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7244204
04/15/21 04:43 PM
04/15/21 04:43 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
|
Not sure what happed here but seeing larger flocks this year then in the past years, if the summer goes well for them they will explode if the winter is mild, fat cats this fall for sure.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7244491
04/15/21 10:57 PM
04/15/21 10:57 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,761
Central, SD
|
Cooperate farming is the use every acre that can be possible to use with no regard for wildlife, I was shocked to see so much slash and burning the last trip I headed South through NE.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7244597
04/16/21 07:56 AM
04/16/21 07:56 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,108 mo.
nate
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,108
mo.
|
A lot of counties don't have fall seasons though. Yes, 7 out of the 114 counties don't have a fall season. So that = ,17.5 birds per county that are open in missouri. That seems very unlikely to be the problem.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: nate]
#7244728
04/16/21 11:12 AM
04/16/21 11:12 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 439 Pottsboro TX Grayson county
Jiggamitch
OP
trapper
|
OP
trapper
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 439
Pottsboro TX Grayson county
|
A lot of counties don't have fall seasons though. Yes, 7 out of the 114 counties don't have a fall season. So that = ,17.5 birds per county that are open in missouri. That seems very unlikely to be the problem. I must have missed the part where I said Missouri. 178 of 254 counties in Texas have wild turkey seasons.
|
|
|
Re: Less fur fewer turkey?
[Re: Jiggamitch]
#7244783
04/16/21 12:50 PM
04/16/21 12:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,108 mo.
nate
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,108
mo.
|
I saw a video on falling turkey populations in southern states. Someone commented that the low prices for fur means less raccoons are being trapped. More raccoons means fewer nests make it to hatching. 80% of nesting sites fail. I have been trying to clear my property of hogs and coons. Trapped 3 coons and 4 hogs this week. Your thoughts? Dr./biologist lovett e. williams claims in one of his books, that in(florida) if it came down to wild hogs and turkeys, the turkeys would starve the hogs out. Not sure bout TX.
|
|
|
|
|