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Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7243764
04/14/21 11:59 PM
04/14/21 11:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 247
Southern Ohio
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Ohiowoodchuck Offline
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 247
Southern Ohio
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ďIf there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.Ē
ó Thomas Paine
Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: claycreech] #7243913
04/15/21 10:11 AM
04/15/21 10:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 753
mo.
N
nate Offline
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mo.
Originally Posted by claycreech
Declining turkey populations are occurring nearly everywhere. Missouriís turkey numbers are a fraction of what it was 15 years ago. In the heyday turkey could be found in marginal habitat. Not anymore. Only the best has a few birds, and even then they arenít in any numbers.
In our county we used to kill around 800 turkey during a spring season. Now we check less than 300. Conservation Department acts like they could care less. We still have a fall shotgun season during which you can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Fall archery deer hunters can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Why they wonít stop all harvest of hens is beyond stupid. Cutting edge wildlife management. You donít need a PHD, just common sense to protect hens when the population is so low. This certainly isnít the only answer, but itís a regulation change that makes sense and would give the appearance that the Conservation Department gives a crap about our turkey populations and not just about selling permits.


MDC concluded years ago that the fall hunt doesn't hurt the turkey population. Some of us enjoy the fall hunt. What does hurt is wet springs, predators and pesticides. We can't do anything about the wet springs, but the trapping season should be open first week of Nov. It would help eliminate a ton of skunks and coons. Blame monsanto and farmers on the other no till is a joke, there's no ponds now before no till we had wildlife now we have poison food/feed.

Last edited by nate; 04/15/21 10:35 AM.
Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244125
04/15/21 03:05 PM
04/15/21 03:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 163
Georgia
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Wiz Offline
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Georgia
I've been told by some wildlife biologists that the wetter springs we have been having has been contributing to excessive poult mortality.

Another wildlife researcher at Auburn has been putting up some interesting stuff on social media over the past few weeks. His students have been putting out artificial turkey nests with trail cameras over them. So far based on their findings, he said that cage traps and dog proof traps will only get about 37% of the predators affecting the nests and you would need to use footholds of other traps to get the other 67% affecting the nest which were mainly coyotes and gray fox. Definitely some food for thought regarding trapping to help turkeys. Habitat was the ultimate factor though.

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244164
04/15/21 03:56 PM
04/15/21 03:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 277
Pottsboro TX Grayson county
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Jiggamitch Offline OP
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Jiggamitch  Offline OP
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Pottsboro TX Grayson county
Well 37% is better than nothing. Hopefully it will help. I'll keep trapping what I can.

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: nate] #7244191
04/15/21 04:35 PM
04/15/21 04:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 829
Sumner, Mo.
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claycreech Offline
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Sumner, Mo.
Originally Posted by nate
Originally Posted by claycreech
Declining turkey populations are occurring nearly everywhere. Missouriís turkey numbers are a fraction of what it was 15 years ago. In the heyday turkey could be found in marginal habitat. Not anymore. Only the best has a few birds, and even then they arenít in any numbers.
In our county we used to kill around 800 turkey during a spring season. Now we check less than 300. Conservation Department acts like they could care less. We still have a fall shotgun season during which you can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Fall archery deer hunters can potentially and legally kill 2 hens. Why they wonít stop all harvest of hens is beyond stupid. Cutting edge wildlife management. You donít need a PHD, just common sense to protect hens when the population is so low. This certainly isnít the only answer, but itís a regulation change that makes sense and would give the appearance that the Conservation Department gives a crap about our turkey populations and not just about selling permits.


MDC concluded years ago that the fall hunt doesn't hurt the turkey population. Some of us enjoy the fall hunt. What does hurt is wet springs, predators and pesticides. We can't do anything about the wet springs, but the trapping season should be open first week of Nov. It would help eliminate a ton of skunks and coons. Blame monsanto and farmers on the other no till is a joke, there's no ponds now before no till we had wildlife now we have poison food/feed.


Nate,
I agreed with MDC years ago, however years ago we had tons of turkey. I love to fall hunt. Targeting adult gobblers in the fall was one of my favorite hunts. I havenít fall hunted since 2010. I killed a gobbler and a hen that season and felt bad that I did. Population bounces back Iíll go again, but I donít look for it to happen.
Iím speaking for North Missouri.
Biologists have completely quit using common sense when making regulation decisions. Iím all for wildlife research, however common sense and public perception need to come into play. Since the beginning of time it has been illegal to harvest hen pheasants. Guarantee there wasnít a research study used to justify that regulation. It just makes sense. The turkey harvest in my county has declined nearly 70 percent from our peak. Large blocks have none or next to zero turkey.
Iím not saying that stopping the harvest of hens will cure the decline. Iím saying itís logical not to kill hens when the population is steadily declining.
MDC refuses to acknowledge predation as a cause of decline as well.
Then they want to double the length of the season by going to all day hunting when the population is in serious long term decline.
We need hook and bullet biologists and administrators again.

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244204
04/15/21 04:43 PM
04/15/21 04:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 25,943
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Law Dog  Offline
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Central, SD
Not sure what happed here but seeing larger flocks this year then in the past years, if the summer goes well for them they will explode if the winter is mild, fat cats this fall for sure.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244473
04/15/21 10:25 PM
04/15/21 10:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 753
mo.
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nate Offline
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mo.
Claycreech
I think you mean well but fall hunting nor spring hunting is not the problem. When they first opened season for turkey hunting there were not a ton of birds and there was a lot of pressure and the birds continued expanding. Partly/ maybe the predator were not proficient at killing them. (Animals eat what there used to eating and what's easy to catch) the hunting pressure is way down compared to the hay days yet the pop. Has declined. Wet springs and habitat destruction(not loss) Is a big problem.

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244491
04/15/21 10:57 PM
04/15/21 10:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 25,943
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Central, SD
Cooperate farming is the use every acre that can be possible to use with no regard for wildlife, I was shocked to see so much slash and burning the last trip I headed South through NE.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244493
04/15/21 11:03 PM
04/15/21 11:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 753
mo.
N
nate Offline
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mo.
2003 =130.021 permits. 58,421 birds
2019= 93,471 permits . 38776 birds
2019 fall1952 birds
Missouri

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244511
04/16/21 12:26 AM
04/16/21 12:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 277
Pottsboro TX Grayson county
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Jiggamitch Offline OP
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Pottsboro TX Grayson county
A lot of counties don't have fall seasons though.

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244518
04/16/21 03:48 AM
04/16/21 03:48 AM
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Posts: 1,675
centrel PA
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centrel PA
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Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244519
04/16/21 03:49 AM
04/16/21 03:49 AM
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Posts: 1,675
centrel PA
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Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244520
04/16/21 03:50 AM
04/16/21 03:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,675
centrel PA
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Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244521
04/16/21 03:51 AM
04/16/21 03:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,675
centrel PA
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Kevin Colpetzer Offline
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centrel PA
Lots of yard birds here

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244597
04/16/21 07:56 AM
04/16/21 07:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 753
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nate Offline
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Originally Posted by Jiggamitch
A lot of counties don't have fall seasons though.


Yes, 7 out of the 114 counties don't have a fall season. So that = ,17.5 birds per county that are open in missouri. That seems very unlikely to be the problem.

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: nate] #7244728
04/16/21 11:12 AM
04/16/21 11:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 277
Pottsboro TX Grayson county
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Jiggamitch Offline OP
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Pottsboro TX Grayson county
Originally Posted by nate
Originally Posted by Jiggamitch
A lot of counties don't have fall seasons though.


Yes, 7 out of the 114 counties don't have a fall season. So that = ,17.5 birds per county that are open in missouri. That seems very unlikely to be the problem.


I must have missed the part where I said Missouri. 178 of 254 counties in Texas have wild turkey seasons.

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244774
04/16/21 12:35 PM
04/16/21 12:35 PM
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Posts: 753
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Didn't see any Texas comments about fall hunting.but must of ruffled some feathers. SORRY

Re: Less fur fewer turkey? [Re: Jiggamitch] #7244783
04/16/21 12:50 PM
04/16/21 12:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 753
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nate Offline
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Originally Posted by Jiggamitch
I saw a video on falling turkey populations in southern states. Someone commented that the low prices for fur means less raccoons are being trapped. More raccoons means fewer nests make it to hatching. 80% of nesting sites fail. I have been trying to clear my property of hogs and coons. Trapped 3 coons and 4 hogs this week. Your thoughts?



Dr./biologist lovett e. williams claims in one of his books, that in(florida) if it came down to wild hogs and turkeys, the turkeys would starve the hogs out. Not sure bout TX.

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