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Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: henpecked1] #7269376
05/21/21 03:48 PM
05/21/21 03:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,653
Texas
Mark June Offline OP
trapper
Mark June  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,653
Texas
Originally Posted by henpecked1


One thing most people in third world nations do have over us and that is time to think. How many attorneys do you know, need a village to send him to seminary school.


You know henpecked1, you have good points here. He's not from a culture that monetarily rewards attorneys but still requires much formal education of them. He attended law school in England. D'Jaba has an uncanny way of getting this US of A'er dude to think deeper. His questions and his mannerisms are hard to explain but he's a treat to chat with because his linguistic heritage is to put the main theme in the 1st part of your first sentence. No prepping the paragraph to get to what you want to say. Say it!

Some of his first sentences have been;
"Why do Americans put their old people in other people's homes?"
"Why are Americans not more inviting to others who have less than they do?"
"When do Americans honor their ancestors?"
"What are boys trained in to assist women?"

You see? Deep thinking culture. That's why I only allow him one question per week! He's good at in-depth and I tell him my culture raised me to think inch deep, mile wide.
We teach each other.
He has hunted lions often. I need to take him on the coyote trap line.

Blessings,
Mark



Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269383
05/21/21 04:00 PM
05/21/21 04:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 32,565
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 32,565
james bay frontierOnt.
Sounds like he doesnt know much about America or has a lot of misconceptions about her.

Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269387
05/21/21 04:08 PM
05/21/21 04:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,899
Central, SD
Law Dog Online content
trapper
Law Dog  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,899
Central, SD
Retirement is still work without the weekend to look forward to, the good and bad part is you have time to do those jobs without work getting in the way. Like said many people just want to get paid today I had some youngins pretty much think after 4 years of partying at collage the work part of life was over for them.

Trying to find someone to work overtime is tough now but they want the 4 day work week for more time off, the job is not any priority today for many. With a smaller crew on the 4 day work week you have less fill in people to fill overtime slots then.

The one thing that always true about work if your willing to keep doing more they will let you.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Law Dog] #7269471
05/21/21 06:26 PM
05/21/21 06:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 96
Pennsylvania
B
BW55 Offline
trapper
BW55  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 96
Pennsylvania
Had a good friend tell me shortly after his retirement-"I have lost my identity",another asked after I retired-"Do you find enough to do"
The poem, The Man In The Glass, describes the man that looks forward to retirement because he has an identity and more than enough to do,
because he is his own friend,not controlled,defined, or limited by a job. I set a retirement goal of catching a PA fisher-not a lofty goal for some,but was my
goal. I caught a fisher two years ago as a result of hours of scouting and trail cameras-something that I could not do when working because of other
obligations taking that time. I'm very thankful to be retired-my goal was to set my own schedule-which I do every day.

Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269478
05/21/21 06:30 PM
05/21/21 06:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,754
Finally run aground in TN
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,754
Finally run aground in TN
Is it because a lot of folks work for the paycheck in a job they don't necessarily enjoy and are glad when that part of their life is done instead of choosing a line of work they enjoy.


I do all my own stunts ..... but never intentionally
Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Scuba1] #7269523
05/21/21 07:29 PM
05/21/21 07:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,229
Maine
M
Mac Offline
trapper
Mac  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,229
Maine
"Why do people want to get there (retired)?"

Part of it may be that the old American dream. It is not a good or realistic or plausible dream any more but I think a lot of folks have clung to it.

Back in the 70s I read a book written by a well known author that had interviewed a number of folks in various professions. It was an interesting read for anyone interested in human behavior, or sociology. As I recall, it seems most of the folks interviewed were satisfied with their work and found their work fullfilling.

In the last twenty to thirty years, actually more, I honestly believe the majority of Americans' attitudes have greatly changed towards work. I would not care to guess at the percentage of people that are simply unhappy in their work, and a majority hate what they do.

None of my opinions are based on “scientific data” that I have researched. It is based on empirical evidence of observations, and reading a lot.

A great number of people that I have talked to in my work life have not been happy with their work. When I worked as a carpenter which I did for many years, most carpenters and concrete folks that I talked to were not all that happy with their work. Most wished they could do something else.

When I worked in the field of education, which I did for a good many years, it was the same thing, and I admit I was surprised. But teaching certainly has its difficult aspects, and it is much more difficult work than all the armchair expert quarterbacks think.

Now I work part time in the code enforcement and plumbing inspection field. It is slightly better but the majority of workers are overwhelmed by having to deal with the public and the political aspects of the job. It is difficult work, not real physical but tiring. And the majority feel undervalued and underpaid.

I think many feel that they are stuck doing what they are doing. I think most are afraid to change to something they might enjoy. Look at the millions and millions made by the motivational gurus and business gurus promising that if you buy whatever magic they are selling, be it a new business opportunity, a new outlook on life etc. you can become rich and happy. How many ads have you seen of folks making outlandish claims and promises?

Why are so many of these motivational or business sales people so successful? Because they are selling the idea of success and happiness to a very large and never ending and growing population of people that are not happy in their work.

Maybe what I have described as my theory of why folks look forward to retiring, but it basically boils down to them not liking what they do, and thinking they will be happy when they no longer have to do it.

What is the old saw? Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water, after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. I think folks mistakenly think that when they no longer have to work, they will be set. With the ever increasing cost of living, and the fact that a large majority cannot save money, many are in for a sad and rude awakening.

In a way, this type of living reminds me of some religions that feel that individuals can put up with a lot of suffering because they will the reward in the afterlife.

I like the Toltec wisdom that suggests that we create heaven or (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) right here, and the choice is ours.

I am retired from carpentry and teaching but I choose to work. I like to work and I like to make money. I grew up in a very very poor family. I never suffered from the silver spoon syndrome. I could probably retire-retire but I do not. This new work requires a lot of continuing education, and I like learning. I like a challenged and nearly every day finds a challenge of some sort. While my body is pretty beat up I am blessed with pretty good health. I do not trap as hard as I thought I might when I retired but it is what it is.

In some ways I wish I had chosen to live a life that Newt described, but being married was a large reason I did not follow the wilder path. My hat is off to Newt, JT and others that dared to live the life they dreamed of.

Got a bit off track, but these are my thoughts.

Some of his first sentences have been;
"Why do Americans put their old people in other people's homes?"
Sounds rather judgemental of something he really does not understand

"Why are Americans not more inviting to others who have less than they do?"
Sounds like a Democrat. Probably had his undergraduate and law school paid for by others too.

"When do Americans honor their ancestors?"
How does he know that they do not?

"What are boys trained in to assist women?"
Have you ever studied how the majority of Africans treat their women? I would guess not.

“You see? Deep thinking culture. “
Maybe

“That's why I only allow him one question per week! He's good at in-depth and I tell him my culture raised me to think inch deep, mile wide.”

You are probably one of the one percenters from what I have read about your pharmaceutical career in sales, so I know you think a lot deeper than that. Plus you are smart enough to figure out how to make money in the trapper game when the market is horrible. Come on Bud.



Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269527
05/21/21 07:33 PM
05/21/21 07:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 165
Utah
J
Jasper69 Offline
trapper
Jasper69  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 165
Utah
THE FREEDOM TO USE YOUR TIME AS YOU WISH. This is the answer. I retired 2 years ago. I wanted to work another year and a half. I just couldn't put up with the corporate bureaucratic b.s. any longer. I liked my job. It just wasn't worth it anymore for me to trade my time at that time to put up with the bureaucracy anymore. And that is happening in a lot of corporations nowadays. I don't have a bucket list. Just wanted my own time and schedule. People ask me all of the time what I am doing in my retirement. I tell them I do two things mainly: 1. Nothing. 2. Whatever I want whenever I want. Don't need cruises, don't need to travel all over Europe, etc. But if I want to spend November and December calling coyotes, I can and will. Nuff said.

Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Jasper69] #7269600
05/21/21 08:53 PM
05/21/21 08:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,661
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,661
East-Central Wisconsin
Retirement is a relatively short cultural issue for US citizens. Up until and after WW11 most workers did not live long enough to retire or by being self employed etc. they slowed down but did not retire. Even post WW11 most worked until 65 as they needed the income and many only lived to the early to mid 70s. That is one aspect it is a relatively new desire in a 250 year old nation.
Also I feel or believe we in the US (more so) but also many western wealthier nations have now funds to live while not working so retirement is an attractive goal. Here in the USA we also tend to segment our life ling probably more than many societies do. We have many starting and stopping phases in our life lines, that are quite short term goal oriented and many of those may not align well with later life or long term goals. It is very hard for many to live for today exactly the way they want too and plan for a long term goals or out comes. Many don't realize they have made decisions now and in the past that severely limit the long term outcomes. Also it is much easier and less burdensome to find yourself in a bad place and blame others for your plight then to make those decisions and live with those consequences. Affluence and wealth do allow for a much larger margin of error when making decisions, where as in lower income regions or families one does not get many chances if any. Americans probably more so then any culture enjoy having others do every day chores and tasks for them, thus house cleaning staff, room cleaning staff, lawn mowing firms, restaurants serving meals and doing dishes etc. Many look at these as rewards for working and some look at is as status issues, some both.

Bryce

Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269614
05/21/21 09:11 PM
05/21/21 09:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,332
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,332
williamsburg ks
Why are folks making something so simple out to be so complicated??????????????????? FREEDOM. No matter how much you love what you do your time is not your own. You have an OBLIGATION to be there.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269616
05/21/21 09:13 PM
05/21/21 09:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,653
Texas
Mark June Offline OP
trapper
Mark June  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,653
Texas
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Diverse input. Appreciate it.
I'd push back on those of you on this forum who seem to suggest my brother is not "enlightened" in ways you think he should be.
Some even go so far as judge who the man is and why he thinks the way he does, or his culture that I would guess you have no experience with. That's interesting.

I respect a man from another country who sincerely seeks to understand someone different than they are.
I wish a heck of a lot more people would try it.
I sense most of you would enjoy the types of conversations D'Jaba and I have.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269639
05/21/21 09:33 PM
05/21/21 09:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,661
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,661
East-Central Wisconsin
I have never looked at putting in a good days work as something that was threatening my freedom, maybe that is why so many people dislike their jobs and those that do work as they look at the job and workers as persons willing to sacrifice personal freedom due to working. Starting from where I came from working and education moved me toward freedom, not away from freedom.

Bryce

Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269662
05/21/21 10:00 PM
05/21/21 10:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,764
N. Carolina
S
Scout1 Offline
trapper
Scout1  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,764
N. Carolina
I haven't read all the posts here yet, but you know what the next step after retirement is don't you?


-------------------------------------
America First!!
Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269719
05/21/21 11:11 PM
05/21/21 11:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,263
MN >>>
T-Rex Online content
trapper
T-Rex  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,263
MN >>>
Very interesting read.

Clearly, even Americans don't understand the origins of retirement. Yeah, they do want to quit their job, and live some soft life that will probably kill them.

Tell your Third World friend that retirement is the American way. Accept it as our culture. The first rule of sociality, the science of studying cultures is not to judge!!!

I'd be surprised if not judging is not somewhere in that God culture of yours, too.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269748
05/21/21 11:54 PM
05/21/21 11:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,000
Anchorage, Alaska
J
James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,000
Anchorage, Alaska
For me, retiring from my long-time profession gave me freedom to pursue a second career doing something I liked better.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269751
05/21/21 11:55 PM
05/21/21 11:55 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,559
SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
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Wanna Be  Offline
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Posts: 4,559
SW Georgia
I can read from this that many haven’t put away for the future and therefore must work to survive. I personally haven’t met a person yet that could make more money retired and still keep working. I guess if your goal is to leave a legacy for your children you might. I wasn’t raised that way and didn’t raise my kids that way. Financial advisors are actually pretty decent folks and can let you know when it’s time. Had a buddy recently retire that is now drawing more than he was working, lol.
My dad retired from the military and then turned around and retired from the DOD. He and my mother are never home, lol. They’re traveling with no timeline. No one to answer to. No one that is dependent on them, except their outside cat, which I feed when they’re gone. They are retired and do what they want when they want.
Is there anyone on this site that’s still working and can take a month long vacation then come back home for a couple weeks and head out someplace new for another month and repeat as you desire? If so, please tell me your occupation. I get about 6 weeks of vacation but after that I’m working the rest of the year. But, when I retire, I’ll be able to do just that.

Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Boco] #7269756
05/22/21 12:11 AM
05/22/21 12:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 884
South Central Wisconsin
N
Nelly Offline
trapper
Nelly  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 884
South Central Wisconsin
Or perhaps he comes from a culture where value doesn't have to be reduced to a number.
Sometimes the worth of a good or service doesn't have to be assigned a numerical value.


I'm just a soul whose intentions are good. O Lord please don't let me be misunderstood.
Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Boco] #7269763
05/22/21 12:17 AM
05/22/21 12:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 884
South Central Wisconsin
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Nelly Offline
trapper
Nelly  Offline
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N

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 884
South Central Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Boco
Sounds like he doesnt know much about America or has a lot of misconceptions about her.

Or perhaps he comes from a culture where value doesn't have to be reduced to a number. Sometimes the worth of a good or service doesn't have to be assigned a numerical value.


I'm just a soul whose intentions are good. O Lord please don't let me be misunderstood.
Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269765
05/22/21 12:18 AM
05/22/21 12:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 173
Virginia - SW
V
Vatrapper63 Offline
trapper
Vatrapper63  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 173
Virginia - SW
After driving to work 4 hours, one way, twice a week for 38 years, because I work but do not want to live in a big city. You want to provide for the family as best you can and for the insurance. Retirement is looking forward to the day to be able to trap or hunt for more than during a week of vacation and to be with your family for more than 2 or 3 days a week.

Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269795
05/22/21 03:35 AM
05/22/21 03:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,500
Kenai AK
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KenaiKid Offline
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KenaiKid  Offline
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K

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,500
Kenai AK
Mark, this is what I would tell him: Because Americans mostly worship themselves. We are not really a Christian culture in any sense except as a disappearing formality. In every practical sense, our culture is utterly humanist and self-serving. When a man worships himself, he worships his desire and preference. The human body is inherently lazy, especially when paired with a corrupt mind. For a lazy man, "not working" is the illusion of paradise. Ancient cultures like the Greeks indulged their laziness through slaves, servants, caste systems etc. We do it through the social safety net, regulated labor and retirement. Our prosperity has made it possible to normalize things that hardly exist in the 3rd world, or for most of history. I'm very grateful for the economic blessings that enable this expectation, but I hope I don't let modern convenience too strongly inform my worldview.

The Lord created men to tend the garden, til the ground, dominate the earth and species, multiply and build, sow, reap, and steward. For me work is a gift, role, and duty from the Lord, and I hope that financial stability never leads me to forget it.


Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Boco couldn't catch a cold.

But if he did, it would be Top Lot.
Re: A question I can't answer. Can you? [Re: Mark June] #7269810
05/22/21 06:06 AM
05/22/21 06:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,598
PA
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lumberjack391 Offline
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,598
PA
Im self-employed and to be honest, never even think much about retirement. I love what I do and figure on working til the day I drop dead or cant do it anymore, then I will be someone elses problem. If I am in good enough health I wont take SS early and keep on working as long as I can.

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