If you can earn your salvation by your good works, then God owes you something.....your salvation. God owes nobody anything. Further, if you could earn your salvation by your good works, there was no need for Jesus to die on the cross.

Sorry, but after 4 pages of this I have to throw in.

For me, after 18 years being raised as a Catholic, but never really adhering, I kept the big message of doing the right things all of my life. 40 years later, with my brother who had turned deep baptist because of his wife... who was born lutheran but chose to be baptist, I learned that my mother, my father and every person I respected that we knew in common would burn in He!! because we hadn't fully accepted the body of Christ.

I told my brother that I would rather take my chances with the people I respected in the fires below than spend a promised eternity with them, who had traded a life with the unworthy on earth for an eternal promise..

There are thousands of religions on the planet, each one which thinks they have the right idea, yet nobody talks about that... only that their's is the ONE. My brother lives in a town with 6 baptist churches and he goes to the one that is the furthest away because the message is stronger.

I respect people based upon how they treat others, regardless of money, race or religion, and I have great respect for people who do the right things every day. I grew up surrounded by self proclaimed Christians who flew the bird at somebody in the parking lot getting out of church.

Just my take on it. I live my life every day on earth as if it was my last and always try to do right by others, and I'll take my chances after that.

Pete

Pete nailed it.

Keith

Some of the biggest crooks I know or have come across are semi-influential Southern Baptists and Nazarenes. They might be "saved" but they lied and cheated their way through life. I have no use for them. I also have no use for anyone that peddles the "prosperity gospel" nonsense. The God I learned about growing up Catholic doesn't bless only his truest believers with money and new dishwashers.

Many Christians are good people, but some are just sorry human beings. It is difficult for me to believe the sorry ones, saved or not, have a place in Heaven.

I too think Pete nailed it..

Not all Baptist are created equal.

One group believes anything goes and nothing you do can get you kicked out. But on their wall they have some kind of pledge saying you will never touch any form of alcohol. They teach Jesus made grape juice and not wine. Yet if you are chosen you can not fall. Seems to me that the ones that wrote up their handbook may have been a little tipsy when they wrote it.

And, I am not disparaging all Baptists and Nazarenes. I am disparaging all prosperity gospel kooks.

Basically, if you are a bad person, think that Jesus will make you rich or have a Christian fish or bible verse on your business card, website or other marketing materials, we are not doing business or becoming friends.

I prefer Christians that live like Christ would approve.

Don't you think if God created us, he will take us back unless we choose not to go?

Can't go wrong with faster horses, younger women, and more money. May not get you into heaven but you will have a really fun trip to Saint Peters gate.

If you truly except Jesus Christ as your savior. You will change the way you talk, think, and treat people. Yes we will sin til the day we die. You also have to ask for forgiveness to Jesus when you do sin. Your old self is gone. You have to die of your old ways to truly live. The Bible is the word, the word is the truth. It’s your choice whether you expect Jesus Christ or not.

Yes.

I have numerous times over the years and my conclusion is some are genuinely interested but for whatever reason they are skeptical. I've known a few agnostics who became Christians

I think it is fair for James to ask these questions. Isn't answering those questions part of spreading the word?

You aren't the first "lawyer" to ask that question James. Here ya go..

25And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

26He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”

27So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

28And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

29But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30Then Jesus answered and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among [i]thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. 33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion. 34So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’ 36So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”

37And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”

That wasn't the vibe I got.

I'm a lapsed Catholic that enjoys reading Mark's posts (although we never learned most of that ). I like reading those of others too (I liked AM's above). I struggle with the "lapsed" part and it's probably just a matter of priorities, by the way.

I think his question was sincere. And, it's been a good mostly civil discussion.

once again, James sneaks in, drops a turd and then vacates the discussion he started.

The Catholic church does mix faith and works. That's what the reformation was resisting against. The CC had people buying indulgences to get their kinfolk out of purgatory. Totally unbiblical. Of course faith will produce works, but works do not save anyone.

I noticed that and expected he would but as someone mentioned above, it's something many of us like to discuss anyway.

Yes.