Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: charles]
#7284014
06/11/21 06:48 PM
06/11/21 06:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,420 New York border
Cragar
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The problem with plastic bags in our beach community was with tourist who left the supermarket, dumped the groceries and beer in their cooler, and tossed the plastic bag on the ground. Winds blew these bags everywhere and liter became expensive and unsightly. For some reason, once the plastic was banned, the problem vanished. Property near shopping areas were the worst. Bags. We’re in the sound and ocean as well as private property. The paper decomposed in the landfills. You would be surprised to what happens in a landfill. I used to work for a major paper manufacturer. They did several archeological digs in landfills as they were catching flak for their products and the environmental costs. They found meat that was 20 years old that was still technically edible. Newspapers that were still readable after 30 years. Landfills take away water , oxygen and UV. It preserves things nicely. Chuck a paper bag out of the window , it will break down when exposed to the elements in months. A soy-based plastic bag will do the same in a slightly longer time frame. Of note , on these digs they found about 23% of landfill space was composed of leaves , they didn't break down too.
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: Law Dog]
#7284044
06/11/21 07:44 PM
06/11/21 07:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,038 SEPA
Lugnut
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I still remember the old BS that paper bags hurt the planet somehow but plastic was OK then, it was ban the paper bags to save the planet. LOL You can bet the politicians had their fingers in the plastic mfg back then. X 2!
Eh...wot?
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: Law Dog]
#7284062
06/11/21 08:02 PM
06/11/21 08:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,337 The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane
"HOSS"
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"HOSS"
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Posts: 20,337
The Hill Country of Texas
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I still remember the old BS that paper bags hurt the planet somehow but plastic was OK then, it was ban the paper bags to save the planet. LOL You can bet the politicians had their fingers in the plastic mfg back then. x2
“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.” Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: charles]
#7284129
06/11/21 09:06 PM
06/11/21 09:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,467 MN
walleye101
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The problem with plastic bags in our beach community was with tourist who left the supermarket, dumped the groceries and beer in their cooler, and tossed the plastic bag on the ground. Winds blew these bags everywhere and liter became expensive and unsightly. For some reason, once the plastic was banned, the problem vanished. Property near shopping areas were the worst. Bags. We’re in the sound and ocean as well as private property. The paper decomposed in the landfills. Sounds more like a people problem than a plastic bag problem.
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: adam m]
#7284252
06/12/21 02:03 AM
06/12/21 02:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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Its about prevention,not about reacting after the fact. Also about fiscal responsibility-cost of one over the other. Makes more sense to eliminate plastic bags than spending a bunch of money to prosecute people throwing away a bag.
Last edited by Boco; 06/12/21 02:05 AM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: Boco]
#7284254
06/12/21 02:11 AM
06/12/21 02:11 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,631 Champaign County, Ohio.
KeithC
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Its about prevention,not about reacting after the fact. Also about fiscal responsibility-cost of one over the other. Makes more sense to eliminate plastic bags than spending a bunch of money to prosecute people throwing away a bag. The cost is not higher if you heavily fine litterers and force them to pickup litter. We should always punish the guilty, not restrict and thereby punish the innocent. Keith
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: adam m]
#7284255
06/12/21 02:15 AM
06/12/21 02:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,492 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
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There are already fines for littering-you would have to spend millions on bag police to catch half of them.No amount of fine is a deterrent if you cant get caught. A better option for the greater society is to eliminate the plastic bags.In a democratic society change is inevitable when demanded by the majority of the people.
Last edited by Boco; 06/12/21 02:17 AM.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: Boco]
#7284256
06/12/21 02:42 AM
06/12/21 02:42 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,631 Champaign County, Ohio.
KeithC
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There are already fines for littering-you would have to spend millions on bag police to catch half of them.No amount of fine is a deterrent if you cant get caught. A better option for the greater society is to eliminate the plastic bags.In a democratic society change is inevitable when demanded by the majority of the people. You only have to punish a small percentage of litterers to make most stop. People don't want to pay fines or pick up trash. A community could make a huge amount of revenue targeting litterers until littering is no longer a problem. A normal $500.00 fine for littering would pay more than a law enforcement officers whole salary and benefits for a day. In a target rich environmetrasfor instance like the one Charles talked about with vacationers, a law enforcement could easily catch several litterers an hour by just observing in a store's parking lot. Keith
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: Boco]
#7284259
06/12/21 02:59 AM
06/12/21 02:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 867 MS—Okinawa
InTheDitch
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There are already fines for littering-you would have to spend millions on bag police to catch half of them.No amount of fine is a deterrent if you cant get caught. A better option for the greater society is to eliminate the plastic bags.In a democratic society change is inevitable when demanded by the majority of the people. Honestly hard to believe plastic bags aren’t banned yet. It’s really not a inconvenience to just carry in some reusable bags.
USMC
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: swift4me]
#7284342
06/12/21 08:39 AM
06/12/21 08:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,038 SEPA
Lugnut
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For many years here in France they have done a few things differently at grocery stores that make sense to me.
You bring your own shopping bags to the store. They sell them for about a buck and they last for years. Most stores will give you a free one if you wear out the old one, and I've got some that are 6 or 7 years old. They're also great for carrying other stuff for fishing, etc.
All the bags for produce or meat are non-plastic.
You bag your own groceries at the checkout. No big deal and you pack them the right way.
Everything has a cost, and these things make groceries cheaper here.
Pete My daughter recently returned from Austria and said that is the same way it is done there. She also said that, in Vienna at least, they rush you through checkout. If you don't have your stuff bagged quickly the cashier will just start sliding the stuff belonging to the customer behind you into your stuff. She said it took some getting used to since her groceries had been bagged for her most if her life her in the US. Once she mastered it she now becomes annoyed with the slower customers. LOL
Eh...wot?
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: adam m]
#7284353
06/12/21 08:58 AM
06/12/21 08:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,872 Central, SD
Law Dog
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With all of the end of the earth predictions it seems plastics get a pass for the most part today. If you follow the money it will end up in DC they are not avoiding such a easy target by mistake.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Plastic bag ban again
[Re: adam m]
#7284359
06/12/21 09:07 AM
06/12/21 09:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,564 La Crosse, WI
Macthediver
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It's nothing new.. Humans have always been drop and go.. With younger ones being more and more event trained it's just gotten worse. Go look at some of the old pictures from after Wood Stock.. People came there by the 100s then just drop things and left them for others to clean up. Is like that now with everything. Go to a movie drop your drink cup popcorn bag on floor and leave, same at ball game or big concert. So why would any one think people going to beach for day aren't going do the same thing. Carry in items use them once drop and go. Fishing, Hunting, Camping, Concert, Ballgame, Balloon release for a rally..Probably some leave junk in church pews even if simple Kleenex. Just human nature it seems.Drop and go..It just my one little cigarette butt how bad can it be. Mac
"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"
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