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.308 loads #7286561
06/14/21 08:16 PM
06/14/21 08:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 537
Webster County W.V
matt Offline OP
trapper
matt  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 537
Webster County W.V
Anyone ever try a 170 gr flat nose in a .308? It would be a for woods whitetail and normal ranges. Will be out of a 760 carbine. Sierra says they can be pushed up to 2600. I doubt I could get much more than that if I wanted too out of an 18Ē barrel. I have lots of bullet choices, but itís a combination I would like to try. They have load data for the .307 Winchester that would be a good starting point. Any thoughts on this?


Live each day as if it were your last. We know not at which hour it will come. Life is too short.Tell your loved ones each day how much you love them
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286570
06/14/21 08:22 PM
06/14/21 08:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,993
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
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charles  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,993
Asheville, NC
My .308 is a Mod 7 Remington stainless. Probably 15 years old. Couldnít ask for better performance than 150 grain cup and core have delivered. Love it for shooting out of enclosed deer huts.

Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286579
06/14/21 08:32 PM
06/14/21 08:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,085
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
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williamsburg ks
you never know when you might want to shoot a bit further. a bullet with a better ballistic coefficient than a flat nose can be had that will do the same job


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286581
06/14/21 08:34 PM
06/14/21 08:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,085
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
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williamsburg ks
P.S. with components hard to find dont be scared to load that bullet. It likely was designed for 30-30 velocities. i would not push the velocity


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286584
06/14/21 08:36 PM
06/14/21 08:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Finally run aground in TN
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Finally run aground in TN
Why would you use an inferior bullet shape ?? I mean those stubbies are meant to be used in tube magazine as pointy bullets would get very noisy real quick in them. But that is why that bullet shape exists. If you want a bullet that holds together, Load partitions or similar. I have loaded Sierra classic hunters in a 30-06 just for squirts and giggles and they work okish but for hunting a use either partitions or TSX Barnes. Those Barnes TSX are pretty barrier blind if it comes to that.


I do all my own stunts ..... but never intentionally .................. Let's go Brandon
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286604
06/14/21 09:01 PM
06/14/21 09:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 231
SD
T
TC1 Offline
trapper
TC1  Offline
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T

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 231
SD
No need to listen to all the nay sayers. If it is a bullet that you have available, go for it. Iím sure once you find an acceptable load that your gun shoots well the deer will not care what shape the lead projectile that hits it in the boiler room is. With practice, should be a hammer out to 300 maybe. Realistically, I can say a vast majority of whitetails taken are under 200 yards. I know, I know, ďmy cousins ex college roommate shot his deer at 950 yardsĒ is coming. In reality, keep your shots to distances youíve become comfortable with, and you will be happy Iím sure. I am not disparaging long distance shooters, just most donít have the money or time needed to master that skill. Remember, countless thousands are harvested with a bow every year. Getting in close enough for a rifle isnít all that hard as long as effort is put in prior to the hunt.

Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286610
06/14/21 09:10 PM
06/14/21 09:10 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,331
Mn
N
nightlife Offline
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nightlife  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,331
Mn
I havenít used the 170 but have used the 150 and they worked just fine and I have no doubt the 170 would as well, yes there better bullets out there but I wouldnít hesitate to use them if I had them and wanted to do so, why would I choose the 150 RN when there are so many better ones out there, well where I hunt the longest I can shoot is maybe 75/80 yards and at that range the 150RN will do anything a high performance high tec bullet will just fine, I know from experience and have a dozen deer, none of which went more the 50/60 feet. And most of which dropped on the spot to show for it





ÔŅĹEverything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks.ÔŅĹ
‚Äē Robert A. Heinlein
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286618
06/14/21 09:21 PM
06/14/21 09:21 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,679
SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
trapper
Wanna Be  Offline
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,679
SW Georgia
What are normal ranges? Any bullet under 100 will work provided to hit the spot. Not sure about flat nose as Iíve never shot any. As long as they hit where youíre aiming they would be fine if thatís all you got.

Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286631
06/14/21 09:34 PM
06/14/21 09:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,534
Pa
C
coalminer Offline
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coalminer  Offline
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C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,534
Pa
I shoot 165 Hornady behind Varget powder, same gun great combo, very accurate. I think that combo would be great.


My heart belongs to my family.
My body belongs to my work.
My soul belongs to the woods.
Re: .308 loads [Re: coalminer] #7286702
06/14/21 10:34 PM
06/14/21 10:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 537
Webster County W.V
matt Offline OP
trapper
matt  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 537
Webster County W.V
Normal ranges in this area can be measured in feet to a 100 yards. This rifle wears a red dot, so itís not a long range rig in any form. One of my favorite loads is a 150 gr round nose, not fancy. But they work very well. Just an idea that these might do just as well.


Live each day as if it were your last. We know not at which hour it will come. Life is too short.Tell your loved ones each day how much you love them
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286796
06/15/21 05:36 AM
06/15/21 05:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,085
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,085
williamsburg ks

When you substitute stuff like bullets designed for low velocity 30-30 rifles into higher velocity 7.62 N.A.T.O. round rifles, you need to watch velocity. The bullet instead of expanding may just come apart if you do not. I feel pretty confident that on that box of flat nose bullets is 30-30 someplace.

Savage model 99 is a lever action chambered for the N.A.T.O. round but it has a rotary magazine so flat nose bullets are not required.

If you shoot a bullet designed for a 2200FPS muzzle velocity at 2800 FPS it may not hold together when it hits.

Ballistic coefficient is just another word for aerodynamic. A flat nose bullet loses velocity faster than a pointed bullet and so it drops more. Especially when loaded at a lower velocity to begin with.

You can make it work as a meat getter no question . No question it wont harm your rifle. Just be aware of what the bullet your using is designed to do and dont exceed that. You will also need to shoot a few to see where they are going to hit.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286831
06/15/21 06:39 AM
06/15/21 06:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,906
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,906
meadowview, Virginia
There is no shortage of .308 bullets available. Lots of vendors have 150 gr Sierra Gamekings and also Nosler 165 gr Accubonds. I would pick one of those instead of a flat nose bullet. The flat nose is a performance compromise to allow for tubular magizines. You have no reason to compromise in your rifle. You can probably make it work, but what's the point? (pun intended)

Re: .308 loads [Re: danny clifton] #7286841
06/15/21 06:58 AM
06/15/21 06:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 212
Central Maryland
E
E.Shell Offline
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Posts: 212
Central Maryland
Originally Posted by matt
Anyone ever try a 170 gr flat nose in a .308? It would be a for woods whitetail and normal ranges. Will be out of a 760 carbine. Sierra says they can be pushed up to 2600. I doubt I could get much more than that if I wanted too out of an 18Ē barrel. I have lots of bullet choices, but itís a combination I would like to try. They have load data for the .307 Winchester that would be a good starting point. Any thoughts on this?
I have used a LOT of Varget in 18" to 24" .308 barrels and it is a very stable powder that provides good accuracy. It will easily get you close to 2,600 with a 170, if not a little past that. I'd suggest starting with Varget data for a 168 or 175 grain bullet. RE-15 is another great .308 powder, as are IMR-4895, IMR-4064 and several others.

You might find this helpful: http://www.shell-central.com/Powder1.html
Originally Posted by danny clifton
you never know when you might want to shoot a bit further. a bullet with a better ballistic coefficient than a flat nose can be had that will do the same job
You are absolutely right, and at 500 yards-plus the Spitzer shape is very important and as you get that far and further, a boattail also helps cut drag. In the woods, at typical woods ranges, even out to 200-250 yards, no one is going to notice.
Quote
P.S. with components hard to find dont be scared to load that bullet. It likely was designed for 30-30 velocities. i would not push the velocity
The OP said in his first post that the bullet manufacturer says this bullet is fine to 2,600, which is about what he will be getting AT THE MUZZLE. At 100 yards, velocity will be even less (about 1,900 fps).

Danny, I'm not targeting you, but using your posts because you make very clear points.

While the several comments throughout this thread that suggest that a spitzer shape is really important, please know that this is actually a long range consideration and parroting that info that doesn't apply to close ranges isn't helping. People making comments about drop difference are not 'wrong', but the OP simply isn't going see a big enough difference in his situation to matter.

Let's run some actual numbers and see what's REALLY going on. I am using my phone ap "Shooter", proven to work via daily use for 6 years with hundreds of rifles out to 1,200 yards and a sometimes times further than that:

Zero distance:100 yards
Muzzle Velocity: 2,600 FPS
Drop at 200 yards:
Sierra 168 Boattail Spitzer HP MatchKing: -2.0 MOA (4.1")
Sierra 170 FN ProHunter: -2.5 MOA (5.3")

1.2" difference at 200 yards - how close can you hold this rig at 200, anyway?

Now, lets go to 600 yards with the above conditions and the BC comments/points DO become valid:
168 SMK: 17.3 MOA (108.7")
170 FNP: 25.7 MOA ( 161.5")

Here, at 600, the flat nose exhibits 4-1/2 FEET more drop - yes, a definite advantage to the pointy bullet and all the discussion about bullet shape and BC begins to make sense and actually applies.

PLEASE- Don't believe me, go to any online ballistic calculator and PROVE TO YOURSELF that the BC isn't as important at woods hunting distances as people have been conditioned to believe.


The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286885
06/15/21 08:07 AM
06/15/21 08:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,606
Midlands South Carolina
S
SGT. C Offline
trapper
SGT. C  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,606
Midlands South Carolina
Matt,go for it. It will work well for your particular rifle. If the 170 is a nosler partition, then all the better. Bullet placement and modest ranges like you described are fine. Again,go for it. Dead deer is a dead deer. It won't care.Sarge


Getting old is a fatal mistake

Always looking for reloading componets

I know a beaver or two, because I've seen a beaver or two
Re: .308 loads [Re: E.Shell] #7286897
06/15/21 08:26 AM
06/15/21 08:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,622
SE Kansas
K
K52 Offline
trapper
K52  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,622
SE Kansas
Originally Posted by E.Shell
Originally Posted by matt
Anyone ever try a 170 gr flat nose in a .308? It would be a for woods whitetail and normal ranges. Will be out of a 760 carbine. Sierra says they can be pushed up to 2600. I doubt I could get much more than that if I wanted too out of an 18Ē barrel. I have lots of bullet choices, but itís a combination I would like to try. They have load data for the .307 Winchester that would be a good starting point. Any thoughts on this?
I have used a LOT of Varget in 18" to 24" .308 barrels and it is a very stable powder that provides good accuracy. It will easily get you close to 2,600 with a 170, if not a little past that. I'd suggest starting with Varget data for a 168 or 175 grain bullet. RE-15 is another great .308 powder, as are IMR-4895, IMR-4064 and several others.

You might find this helpful: http://www.shell-central.com/Powder1.html
Originally Posted by danny clifton
you never know when you might want to shoot a bit further. a bullet with a better ballistic coefficient than a flat nose can be had that will do the same job
You are absolutely right, and at 500 yards-plus the Spitzer shape is very important and as you get that far and further, a boattail also helps cut drag. In the woods, at typical woods ranges, even out to 200-250 yards, no one is going to notice.
Quote
P.S. with components hard to find dont be scared to load that bullet. It likely was designed for 30-30 velocities. i would not push the velocity
The OP said in his first post that the bullet manufacturer says this bullet is fine to 2,600, which is about what he will be getting AT THE MUZZLE. At 100 yards, velocity will be even less (about 1,900 fps).

Danny, I'm not targeting you, but using your posts because you make very clear points.

While the several comments throughout this thread that suggest that a spitzer shape is really important, please know that this is actually a long range consideration and parroting that info that doesn't apply to close ranges isn't helping. People making comments about drop difference are not 'wrong', but the OP simply isn't going see a big enough difference in his situation to matter.

Let's run some actual numbers and see what's REALLY going on. I am using my phone ap "Shooter", proven to work via daily use for 6 years with hundreds of rifles out to 1,200 yards and a sometimes times further than that:

Zero distance:100 yards
Muzzle Velocity: 2,600 FPS
Drop at 200 yards:
Sierra 168 Boattail Spitzer HP MatchKing: -2.0 MOA (4.1")
Sierra 170 FN ProHunter: -2.5 MOA (5.3")

1.2" difference at 200 yards - how close can you hold this rig at 200, anyway?

Now, lets go to 600 yards with the above conditions and the BC comments/points DO become valid:
168 SMK: 17.3 MOA (108.7")
170 FNP: 25.7 MOA ( 161.5")

Here, at 600, the flat nose exhibits 4-1/2 FEET more drop - yes, a definite advantage to the pointy bullet and all the discussion about bullet shape and BC begins to make sense and actually applies.

PLEASE- Don't believe me, go to any online ballistic calculator and PROVE TO YOURSELF that the BC isn't as important at woods hunting distances as people have been conditioned to believe.


This post is spot on, at the distances Matt said he would be shooting, a spitzer with a boat tail or a flat nose and base bullet, both will work fine. He's more limited in pin point accuracy by the red dot scope than bullet selection at that distance.

Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286932
06/15/21 09:30 AM
06/15/21 09:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Finally run aground in TN
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Finally run aground in TN
I would be more concerned about meat loss using a flat nose bullet at high velocities than accuracy. I like to eat as much as I can from the animal that I shoot.


I do all my own stunts ..... but never intentionally .................. Let's go Brandon
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7286989
06/15/21 11:32 AM
06/15/21 11:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 255
Wellington,Ohio
R
Ric Offline
trapper
Ric  Offline
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R

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Posts: 255
Wellington,Ohio
I think you bullet choice is perfectly suitable for what you doing.

I won't get as complicated as E. Shell. I'm a hunter not a shooter.

I ran these #'s just to see:

Speer 170 gr FN (#2041)

Muzzle Velocity 2500fps

Point blank range of 204 yards with a 4" target . Sighted in at 1" high @ 50 yrds or 2" high@ 100 your choice

What else do you need for a woods rifle? Even at 250 yards a top of the back hold will give a center chest hit




Last edited by Ric; 06/15/21 11:33 AM.
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7287015
06/15/21 12:37 PM
06/15/21 12:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 966
Alaska Northwestern
That Fool Offline
trapper
That Fool  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 966
Alaska Northwestern
170 grains should work fine, it is a great weight for a bullet, I use 170 in my 8x57 mauser and it performs well, I have used 180 grains in my ar 308 and it drops a moose where it stands. I would imagine that the 170 grains bullets would have the same effect on a deer.

Last edited by That Fool; 06/15/21 12:39 PM.
Re: .308 loads [Re: matt] #7287306
06/15/21 09:00 PM
06/15/21 09:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,906
meadowview, Virginia
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EdP Offline
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meadowview, Virginia
I don't agree exactly with Mr Shell's analysis because it appears he is comparing flat base bullets to boat tail spitzers instead of flat nose bullets to spitzers. Regardless, comparison of the Sierra 170 gr flat nose (BC=.248) to the Sierra 165 gr spitzer (BC=.409) at 200 yds when zero'd at 100 and leaving the muzzle at 2600 yields exactly the same result he quoted - a 1.2" difference at 200 yds. It just seems to unnecessarily complicate matters when there are plenty of better choices than the flatnose 30-30 bullet available on the market.

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