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Another 2A win #7305531
07/13/21 11:46 PM
07/13/21 11:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,692
nm
A
adam m Offline OP
trapper
adam m  Offline OP
trapper
A

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,692
nm
https://www.theblaze.com/news/court...oYJaWAuewpLp39d3Qn9jmcBop_6ikx9Cs4GgNgDM

A federal appeals court in Richmond, Virginia, on Tuesday ruled that a decades-old law preventing licensed firearm dealers from selling handguns to anyone below the age of 21 years old is unconstitutional.

The 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals' 2-1 ruling from a three-judge panel overturned a lower court's decision upholding the law, according to the Associated Press.

The outlet — which noted that the 5th Circuit in the past has ruled in a contrary manner regarding the same topic — said that it is not evident if the decision will have an immediate effect. The AP noted that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms could pursue an appeal before the full 4th Circuit panel.

The Wall Street Journal reported in 2012 that 5th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the law.

"Despite the weighty interest in reducing crime and violence, we refuse to relegate either the Second Amendment or 18- to 20-year-olds to a second-class status," Judge Julius Richardson wrote in the 4th Circuit opinion.

Richardson, who was appointed by Republican President Donald Trump, was joined in the opinion by Judge G. Stephen Agee, who was appointed by GOP President George W. Bush, according to Roll Call.

The ruling pertains to a law that has been on the books for over 50 years that blocks licensed dealers from selling any firearms other than rifles and shotguns to people ages 18- to 20-years-old. While all firearm sales to those under 18 are deemed unlawful, sales of rifles and shotguns to those 18 and up are not prohibited.

The majority opinion stated, "The irony does not escape us that, under the government's reasoning, the same 18- to 20-year-old men and women we depend on to protect us in the armed forces and who have since our Founding been trusted with the most sophisticated weaponry should nonetheless be prevented from purchasing a handgun from a federally licensed dealer for their own protection at home. We refuse to accept this conclusion. These men and women who, historically, have served either voluntarily or by conscription may not be read out of 'the people' in the Second Amendment."

Obama-appointed Judge James Wynn Jr. dissented, writing that "the majority's decision to grant the gun lobby a victory in a fight it lost on Capitol Hill more than fifty years ago is not compelled by law. Nor is it consistent with the proper role of the federal judiciary in our democratic system."

Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305548
07/14/21 04:29 AM
07/14/21 04:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
shall not be infringed is the only gun law we need


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Another 2A win [Re: danny clifton] #7305564
07/14/21 06:13 AM
07/14/21 06:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,147
Fontana KS
A
Andrew Eastwood Offline
trapper
Andrew Eastwood  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,147
Fontana KS
Originally Posted by danny clifton
shall not be infringed is the only gun law we need

Yes it is.

Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305571
07/14/21 06:41 AM
07/14/21 06:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
The Obama appointee couldn't help but smear the motive behind the decision. It's what they always do.

Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305576
07/14/21 06:50 AM
07/14/21 06:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,497
Southern NJ
maintenanceguy Offline
trapper
maintenanceguy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,497
Southern NJ
Sounds like the two good judges ruled with the constitution. The dissenting judge (Obama appointee) wrote that we've been violating the constitution for 50 years so it's not the court's job to fix it. So, the bad judge didn't even have a legal argument for his position.


-Ryan
Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305577
07/14/21 06:50 AM
07/14/21 06:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,852
meadowview, Virginia
I have no doubt this will be appealed to the full 4th circuit, and will likely be overturned. If upheld by the full 4th circuit it will end up with the SCOTUS since the 5th circuit HAS upheld it. That might get very interesting.

Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305594
07/14/21 07:06 AM
07/14/21 07:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
Constitution says “shall not be infringed “. Nothing about age. We have more gun crimes now than before all of the gun laws . The supremes are not doing their job. Protecting our rights


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305597
07/14/21 07:13 AM
07/14/21 07:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
Reasonable gun control is not a real thing. Its an oxymoron . Doesn’t matter if its from Joe Biden or the NRA. All gun control should be opposed


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305660
07/14/21 09:07 AM
07/14/21 09:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
"The militia of the United States shall consist of all able bodied men of at least 17 years of age"


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305671
07/14/21 09:24 AM
07/14/21 09:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,759
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,759
Central, SD
The packing of the Court would be the end of the Constitution as we know it.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Another 2A win [Re: maintenanceguy] #7305673
07/14/21 09:28 AM
07/14/21 09:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 864
Alaska/Washington
D
Dragger Offline
trapper
Dragger  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 864
Alaska/Washington
Originally Posted by maintenanceguy
Sounds like the two good judges ruled with the constitution. The dissenting judge (Obama appointee) wrote that we've been violating the constitution for 50 years so it's not the court's job to fix it. So, the bad judge didn't even have a legal argument for his position.



That is why you don't give them an inch. Getting your rights back is always tougher than defending them.


Give an illegal alien a fish and he eats for a day. Deport him and you never have to feed him ever again!
Re: Another 2A win [Re: Law Dog] #7305674
07/14/21 09:31 AM
07/14/21 09:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,238
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,238
The Hill Country of Texas
Originally Posted by Law Dog
The packing of the Court would be the end of the Constitution as we know it.



Yes that is their plan. If an 18 year old is responsible enough to defend his country with a M-4 I cannot think of a good reason why he cannot defend his home with a Glock


“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.”
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305676
07/14/21 09:33 AM
07/14/21 09:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
H
hippie Offline
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hippie  Offline
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Reaping the benefits of Trumps work at filling judicial openings with good judges.

Even the once dreaded 9th circuit shot down a magazine ban since Trump filled the openings.

Re: Another 2A win [Re: danny clifton] #7305677
07/14/21 09:34 AM
07/14/21 09:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,140
Texas Hill Country
C
Cedar Hacker Offline
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Cedar Hacker  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,140
Texas Hill Country
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Constitution says “shall not be infringed “. Nothing about age. We have more gun crimes now than before all of the gun laws . The supremes are not doing their job. Protecting our rights




Spot on.

[Linked Image]


Sit on your horse on top of a ridge, look out across the country and tell me there is no God.

Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305679
07/14/21 09:36 AM
07/14/21 09:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
The Dumborats are very well aware that gun control does NOT prevent crime.They know what their doing.They want us un-armed.Un-armed,,we are sublects,,not citizens.

Last edited by upstateNY; 07/14/21 09:36 AM.

the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Another 2A win [Re: adam m] #7305688
07/14/21 09:43 AM
07/14/21 09:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
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Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
The dissent is disappointing--and demonstrates a lack of judicial competence.

Re: Another 2A win [Re: Blaine County] #7305704
07/14/21 10:02 AM
07/14/21 10:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,129
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Blaine County
The dissent is disappointing--and demonstrates a lack of judicial competence.



Blaine and James : Critique my thinking please.

I suspect that if the full 4th circuit hears the case it will find that the law IS constitutional since it does not prohibit possession or use. ( Keep & bear)

But since an 18 year old is a full voting citizen, and since Wickard v Filburn so specifically claims that individuals are subject to the commerce clause, might there not also be a commerce clause violation here since the gun an 18 year old wants to buy has likely traveled between or among states ?

I suppose one could say that alcohol also is part of interstate commerce and age restrictions are placed on it. But alcohol is not in the Bill of Rights.

Should there be age restrictions on writing a blog or owning a printing press ? Certainly a press has shown itself to be at least as dangerous as a firearm.


Mean As Nails
Re: Another 2A win [Re: white17] #7305707
07/14/21 10:06 AM
07/14/21 10:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
U
upstateNY Offline
trapper
upstateNY  Offline
trapper
U

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,170
ny
Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by Blaine County
The dissent is disappointing--and demonstrates a lack of judicial competence.



Blaine and James : Critique my thinking please.

I suspect that if the full 4th circuit hears the case it will find that the law IS constitutional since it does not prohibit possession or use. ( Keep & bear)

But since an 18 year old is a full voting citizen, and since Wickard v Filburn so specifically claims that individuals are subject to the commerce clause, might there not also be a commerce clause violation here since the gun an 18 year old wants to buy has likely traveled between or among states ?

I suppose one could say that alcohol also is part of interstate commerce and age restrictions are placed on it. But alcohol is not in the Bill of Rights.

Should there be age restrictions on writing a blog or owning a printing press ? Certainly a press has shown itself to be at least as dangerous as a firearm.

" The pen is mightier than the sword" comes to mind.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Another 2A win [Re: hippie] #7305728
07/14/21 10:39 AM
07/14/21 10:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,425
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,425
Georgia
Originally Posted by hippie
Reaping the benefits of Trumps work at filling judicial openings with good judges.

Even the once dreaded 9th circuit shot down a magazine ban since Trump filled the openings.


That will probably be his greatest accomplishment. Hopefully it won't be when he gets a second shot at draining the swamp.


[Linked Image]
Re: Another 2A win [Re: warrior] #7305800
07/14/21 12:28 PM
07/14/21 12:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
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hippie Offline
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hippie  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
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Originally Posted by warrior
Originally Posted by hippie
Reaping the benefits of Trumps work at filling judicial openings with good judges.

Even the once dreaded 9th circuit shot down a magazine ban since Trump filled the openings.


That will probably be his greatest accomplishment. Hopefully it won't be when he gets a second shot at draining the swamp.


I'm hoping he gets another shot and with 4 years now to see how fast the ones he thought were with him are now back stabbing him even more. Bring in people from outside D.C. no matter their experience.

DeSantis would be good too I think, but would make the same mistakes in hiring from the swamp. imo

Last edited by hippie; 07/14/21 12:31 PM.
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