Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#7305822
07/14/21 12:51 PM
07/14/21 12:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,248 ny
upstateNY
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Alcohol,Tobacco and Firearms sounds like a one stop shopping store to me.
Last edited by upstateNY; 07/14/21 12:52 PM.
the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#7305830
07/14/21 01:01 PM
07/14/21 01:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,561 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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they serve a purpose in issuing license to dealers including fireworks manufactures , firearm' dealers , manufacturers of firearms and ammunition.
should any one without any regulation be able to make and sell fireworks or explosives to the public with no regulation at all ? I think most of us would say some licensing and regulation of the sale of explosives is reasonable.
does the ATF have any business in telling a US citizen what they can and can not build for small arms for their own personal use? absolutely not
anything that could serve as a useful tool of defense of person , property or community should have a simple your not a prohibited person or you are.
suppressors should be a muffler like any other muffler , you don't need a license to put a muffler on your car you shouldn't need one for your gun.
if we are concerned about 18-20 year old purchasing concealable arms a reasonable option would be short gun and long gun
21 and over may purchase short and long
18-20 may purchase long only
simply set the long at say 27 or 30 inches or greater all under the length of concealability are short and all over are long
when at a glance not even an ATF agent can tell you if a firearm is legal or not then the rules are just stupid and all the stupid rules need to go.
simply are you good to own a gun(s) or have your past actions and convictions stripped you of the right.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#7305845
07/14/21 01:22 PM
07/14/21 01:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,593 Georgia
warrior
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,593
Georgia
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they serve a purpose in issuing license to dealers including fireworks manufactures , firearm' dealers , manufacturers of firearms and ammunition.
should any one without any regulation be able to make and sell fireworks or explosives to the public with no regulation at all ? I think most of us would say some licensing and regulation of the sale of explosives is reasonable.
does the ATF have any business in telling a US citizen what they can and can not build for small arms for their own personal use? absolutely not
anything that could serve as a useful tool of defense of person , property or community should have a simple your not a prohibited person or you are.
suppressors should be a muffler like any other muffler , you don't need a license to put a muffler on your car you shouldn't need one for your gun.
if we are concerned about 18-20 year old purchasing concealable arms a reasonable option would be short gun and long gun
21 and over may purchase short and long
18-20 may purchase long only
simply set the long at say 27 or 30 inches or greater all under the length of concealability are short and all over are long
when at a glance not even an ATF agent can tell you if a firearm is legal or not then the rules are just stupid and all the stupid rules need to go.
simply are you good to own a gun(s) or have your past actions and convictions stripped you of the right.
Please educate yourself. Felon in possession was not a thing until 1968. Almost two centuries prior there were no laws restricting ownership. Heck, those convicted of INSURRECTION in Shay's Rebellion in 1787 had full rights restored upon two years of good behavior. Or you can stay ignorant like a good little sheep.
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#7305848
07/14/21 01:24 PM
07/14/21 01:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,949 Indiana
Providence Farm
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If your past actions are not bad enough to keep you locked up and off the street then you have the same rights to protect yourself as everyone else.. If your not safe enough to have the right to defend yourself you should not be free to walk the street..
Felonies just create a 2nd lower class of citizen. Once they serve their sentence and debt has been paid all rights should be restored.
Last edited by Providence Farm; 07/14/21 06:58 PM. Reason: Fat fingers small key board
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#7305851
07/14/21 01:27 PM
07/14/21 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,593 Georgia
warrior
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,593
Georgia
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AFT: “Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?”
GREENCOUNTRYPETE: “My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…”
AFT: “Would you sleep with me for five pounds?”
GREENCOUNTRYPETE: “Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!”
AFT: “Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.”
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#7305855
07/14/21 01:31 PM
07/14/21 01:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,593 Georgia
warrior
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Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#7305857
07/14/21 01:38 PM
07/14/21 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167 NH
zallen
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Posts: 167
NH
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No.
They were founded to give something for the "Revenuers" to do after the 21st Amendment was passed. And technically the are the ATFE. I always like to add the "E" as I think it irritates them because they're not one of the "cool" three letter agencies.
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”
William Pitt
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: GritGuy]
#7305910
07/14/21 02:42 PM
07/14/21 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,593 Georgia
warrior
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Posts: 25,593
Georgia
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The government cannot enforce anything without willing individuals to do so, seems most forget that fact.
They can or may try to pass what ever they want to, however it's up to whom ever to enforce those laws.
If the enforcers don't abide by the constitution in this country then you have a problem. The oath of service in armed service includes upholding the constitution as does the police servers.
Might want to be looking at those involved as enforcers as well as if you get your firearms or not !! Perhaps you missed Chairman Joints Chiefs General Milley testifying before congress.
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Providence Farm]
#7305913
07/14/21 02:47 PM
07/14/21 02:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,469 Idaho
bearcat2
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Life your past actions are not bad enough to keep you locked up and off the street then you have the samevrights to protect yourself as everyone else.. If your not safe enough to have the right to defend yourself you should not be free to walk the street..
Felonies just create a 2nd lower class of citizen. Once they serve their sentence and debt has been paid all rights should be restored. This. If you are too dangerous to possess a gun you are too dangerous to be loose.
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#7305928
07/14/21 03:00 PM
07/14/21 03:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,636 Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB
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Posts: 17,636
Rodney,Ohio
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My thoughts on all these agencies one they should never have the ability to draft their own regulation. Two, there's no need to have multiples of them. Three, they should be more of a coordination facility between the states different agencies.
Last edited by SNIPERB🦝; 07/14/21 03:01 PM.
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#7305944
07/14/21 03:22 PM
07/14/21 03:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,868
williamsburg ks
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Back when you didnt need permission to buy dynamite nobody I knew ever blew up anything they were not supposed to
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Do we, as a country, need the ATF
[Re: Grandpa Trapper]
#7305948
07/14/21 03:25 PM
07/14/21 03:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,561 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
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well I was thinking a simplification and honesty in the law with some regulation that is actually directed at public safety
I see your point warrior
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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