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Dog training advice please #7311330
07/22/21 10:21 AM
07/22/21 10:21 AM
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Posts: 190
Va
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rattrapper1234 Offline OP
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As you all know I got my first gun dog yesterday and I want to start her off right so we will spend the next two or three weeks learning basic obedience like, sit, stay, come, and kennel. But after that point I am clueless how to train her to hunt. Since we dont have a ton of upland gamebirds here, my goal is for her to flush rabbits, as well as flush and retrieve doves. Are dogs able to learn that many skills? What age do you begin training them to hunt? And how do you teach them to do those things? Sorry for how wordy this post was but I have a lot of questions. If you are knowledgeable on this subject, could you pm me to answer some more questions. I'm not new to dog ownership, just new to hunting dogs. Thanks in advance

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311334
07/22/21 10:33 AM
07/22/21 10:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 6,864
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content
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Posco  Online Content
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Maine, Aroostook
If you want a gun dog, be very careful when you introduce them to gunfire. Have someone touch off a round at a distance and work their way in over time. Associate gunfire with fun.

As far as the dog goes, they have the instinct to hunt or they don't. A pointing dog points because the instinct has been bred into them. What you want to do is give the instinct the opportunity to come out. Don't expect much of anything out of them until they are at least six months old. No pressure and make it fun.

Basic obedience is easy and important. There's nothing worse than hunting over a dog that self-hunts and ignores its handler.

Lots of other things to address but those are some basics.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311341
07/22/21 10:53 AM
07/22/21 10:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,172
southern oregon cascades
dirtydogtrapping Offline
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I have always started my pups. Using a toy cap gun in the house. Every time you play with the pup throw his toy and fire the cap gun. They will associate the sound to there toy.
Other than that I use the gun dog books to train them to understand hand signals [Linked Image]


Violator 7 smells like Heaven!
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311343
07/22/21 10:54 AM
07/22/21 10:54 AM
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Posts: 64
Michigan
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GWGjr Offline
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You might look into the training methods endorsed by NAVHDA (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association) - those dogs are worked to provide "fur and feather" ranging from grouse to deer. They put out a training book some years ago that you might find helpful. I ran pointers, setters, and shorthairs back in the day and one of the books I always liked was "Training Bird Dogs the Delmar Smith Way" - just preferred his style of training dogs.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: GWGjr] #7311345
07/22/21 11:08 AM
07/22/21 11:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 6,864
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content
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Posco  Online Content
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Originally Posted by GWGjr
You might look into the training methods endorsed by NAVHDA (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association) - those dogs are worked to provide "fur and feather" ranging from grouse to deer. They put out a training book some years ago that you might find helpful. I ran pointers, setters, and shorthairs back in the day and one of the books I always liked was "Training Bird Dogs the Delmar Smith Way" - just preferred his style of training dogs.


This might seem silly, but get the right breed for the species you intend to hunt. Back in the days of my complete ignorance of bird dogs, I bought a Springer Spaniel with the intention of training it to point grouse. What I didn't know (which was about everything bird dog) was a springer is bred to be a flushing dog. What I wanted was a pointing dog. I would have had to have fought every instinct bred into a flushing dog to get it to point, if it were even possible. I've never been a fan of the versatile breeds but I've hunted over some good ones.

I considered Delmar Smith's (Bill Tarrant) book the bible on pointing dogs. He knew dogs.

Last edited by Posco; 07/22/21 11:10 AM.
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311351
07/22/21 11:17 AM
07/22/21 11:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,234
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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If you got the correct breed breed for your purpose much will come naturally. Socialization at a young age is important. I used to run English Setters and German Shorthairs. All the trial dogs were force broken to retrieve for consistent results when a trial is on the line. Others, one German Shorthairs mission in life was to retrieve naturally to hand but he was not a trial dog. There are lots of books, videos, heck these days I tube. Lots of methods and twist to those.

Play with it while young watch basic training videos and starting bird work methods. Work with it's natural talent and on it's weak spots. Not everyone wants the same thing in their dog. Some like close working others want horse back range running dogs. Some want flushers other pointers. Being new it's hard to know what your preferred style of dog is because you have not developed your style yet.

Personally I like a close to mid range dog because I enjoy watching them work. One that worked that area well. I want a retrieve to hand solid classy point and back. Broke so on command it will stop locking up at a dead run. Very useful when your dog is 300 yards out running towards a road with a car coming towards it. One that will heal is nice when your walking across the farmers yard with chickens loose, shotgun in one hand and coffee in the other.

It's a journey you won't learn in a few years or one dog can be frustrating at times but very much worth it.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311359
07/22/21 11:31 AM
07/22/21 11:31 AM
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Idaho, Lemhi County
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Gulo Offline
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Over the past 50 years, I've had some of the finest bird dogs imaginable. Several different breeds, and they've all been phenomenal. I'm of the old-school I guess, and I would wholeheartedly endorse the training methods of Wolters (see images of books above posted by dirtydogtrapping). Make it fun for the dog, and it'll be fun for you.

Jack

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311361
07/22/21 11:34 AM
07/22/21 11:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,932
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Don't know bird dogs but ran hounds and as others have said it either in them or it's not. Somethings like desire you just can't teach or beat into a dog. That's where breeding comes in. Assuming the parents, grandparents, etc had the genes and more importantly the ability odds are your pup does to.
It's your job to put pup in the positions and situations that those genes are geared to and then to mold it's actions to focus the abilities.
In short you can't make a dog but only guide it into what it potentially could be.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311392
07/22/21 12:18 PM
07/22/21 12:18 PM
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American In the Pyrenees; Fran...
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swift4me Offline
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Great advice on the Wolters books, but Posco was right. What kind of pup did you buy? You will get a lot more good advice if we know that. Beagles are great rabbit dogs, but not so much in a marsh for ducks or hunting grouse. I have owned several dogs that will retrieve doves, but I've never had a dog flushed doves.

Tell us more please.

Pete

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311399
07/22/21 12:25 PM
07/22/21 12:25 PM
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Posts: 15,467
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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Another vote for the Wolters books. They are my training Bibles and I have been using them and referring to them for forty-plus years.

The books are old but the methods Wolters taught were classic and will always work well. The man understood canine behavior.


Eh...wot?

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311400
07/22/21 12:28 PM
07/22/21 12:28 PM
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NW MO
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TurkeyTime Offline
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Larry Mueller, Speed Train Your Own Bird Dog or Retriever (two different books).

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311407
07/22/21 12:38 PM
07/22/21 12:38 PM
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Tug Hill, NY
Redknot Offline
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Obedience and socialization are very important, and as others have suggested are a good place to start. However, it is best to think of hunt training as a combined effort. Your dog is going to train you as much as you believe you are going to train him. Utilize and learn his natural instincts give encouragement where and when needed, but allow him to show you what he instinctively knows...


~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: dirtydogtrapping] #7311412
07/22/21 12:47 PM
07/22/21 12:47 PM
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MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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Originally Posted by dirtydogtrapping
I have always started my pups. Using a toy cap gun in the house. Every time you play with the pup throw his toy and fire the cap gun. They will associate the sound to there toy.
Other than that I use the gun dog books to train them to understand hand signals [Linked Image]



That's what I always liked to use were the Gun Dog books.


To the white people apologizing for the past. Speak for yourself, I myself did nothing to apologize for!
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311420
07/22/21 12:57 PM
07/22/21 12:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
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Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
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Bob Offline
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You donít have to teach a hunting dog to hunt. You teach it obedience extremely well, most importantly ďwhoaĒ. You have to be able to control where the dog goes, make sure it isnít startled by the gun, and after that take the dog hunting. You cannot teach the dog anything about hunting that thousands of years of instinct doesnít already tell it. The only part of hunting that needs to be taught is the retrieve, cause instinct tells them to eat what they catch. Obedience is the what makes or breaks a good hunting dog. If the dog has the instinct and you are always in control of it, thatís all it takes to have a good bird dog. If one of those is lacking, youíre in for a lot of headaches.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311429
07/22/21 01:12 PM
07/22/21 01:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,362
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
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SJA  Offline
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Whatever training theory you decide to subscribe to, remember these 3 words! . . . Time, patience, and Repetition! . . . (TPR). :-)


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311434
07/22/21 01:24 PM
07/22/21 01:24 PM
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West Virginia
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DugK Offline
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I run hounds for rabbits. I like to train my pups. Obedience is no 1. Simple commands come, stay, back and get in. I like to start them at 2 months tracking hot dogs around the yard. They know at the end of the scent is a reward. Then I work them on rabbits with the established hounds. Then I spend lots of time just feeding them tracks alone. They then hone their skill and build confidence.
As others said, it is in there, some have some dont. My hounds are bred for chasing rabbits.
Good Luck

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311443
07/22/21 01:36 PM
07/22/21 01:36 PM
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Kansas
Pawnee Offline
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Dirtydog has it. Nothing better the Gun dog and Water dog. Great books


Everything the left touches it destroys
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311451
07/22/21 01:53 PM
07/22/21 01:53 PM
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Eastern shore of Maryland
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Muddyrat Offline
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Rattrapper1234 Iím kinda in the same boat as you . I will be picking up my new German shorthair pointer next weekend . I have trained retrieves in the past for waterfowl. But new to pointers . I was recommended the perfect start DVDís by several people. Hope this helps

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311456
07/22/21 02:02 PM
07/22/21 02:02 PM
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Posts: 1,362
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
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GSPs make excellent Waterfowl dogs! :-) [Linked Image]

GSP "Point-Retriever" grin [Linked Image]


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311463
07/22/21 02:15 PM
07/22/21 02:15 PM
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Eastern shore of Maryland
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Muddyrat Offline
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Pretty dog sja .

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