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Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311475
07/22/21 02:28 PM
07/22/21 02:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,961
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,961
Indiana
My Setters were field champs heck my best male was A4x champ in NSTRA and #1 in the state of Indiana several years in a roll. Great trial dog but I preferred my German Shorthairs for wild birds, less shearing, family dog, and I just like the way they are built.

If I had time and we had more than a few birds I would have short hairs again.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311491
07/22/21 02:58 PM
07/22/21 02:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,274
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Posco  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,274
Maine, Aroostook
Bird dogs are so much fun, and on occasion, so much frustration. I hunted grouse, woodcock and pen-raised pheasant. Pheasant tend to be runners and our northern grouse have been known to strap on sneakers and beat feet too. Woodcock hold so tight it's not uncommon to find one two feet from the dogs nose, that's if the dog hasn't learned not to crowd a bird. The dog leaning to relocate on a moving bird without bumping it takes time and experience. Some are better than others. The dog's bird sense increases over the course of its life as its stamina goes the other way.

Like most everyone has already stated, the important thing is to have the dog gods smile on you when you grab your pick of the litter. There will be duds no matter how good the breeding program. Worse than that is a good dog with a bad handler. Training dogs is a lot like training kids...you get out of them what you expect and what you put into them.

The instinct is there or it ain't, your job is to watch it unfold as the dog learns to handle whatever it's after.

My favorite dog was an English Pointer. Those dogs were traditionally bred to run big on quail with the hunter on horseback. Mine was pretty dependable at forty yards or so in the grouse covers. The best dog I ever personally hunted grouse over was a Brit. It never seemed to bump a bird. It wasn't my dog.

Brings back some great memories.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311564
07/22/21 04:22 PM
07/22/21 04:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 343
Va
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rattrapper1234 Offline OP
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rattrapper1234  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 343
Va
Thanks guys, I'll keep posting her progress as we go

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311565
07/22/21 04:25 PM
07/22/21 04:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,183
Wisconsin
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Moosetrot Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,183
Wisconsin
Another vote for the Wolters methods. I have had the pleasure (and work) of turning out some very fine Labradors through my years. Wolters is commens sense and effective if you follow what he says. In the early months obedience is key as is socialization.

Moosetrot

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311570
07/22/21 04:34 PM
07/22/21 04:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 114
IA
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Kong Offline
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Kong  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 114
IA
[Linked Image]

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311571
07/22/21 04:38 PM
07/22/21 04:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 114
IA
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Kong Offline
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Posts: 114
IA
I just got a Drahthaar pup. This book is what a lot of Drahthaar breeders recommend. I have used Wolters books in the past. Drahthaars are not for everyone but I sure love them.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311605
07/22/21 05:36 PM
07/22/21 05:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,042
St. Louis Co, Mo
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BigBob Offline
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St. Louis Co, Mo
Not sure what breed you got, but this advice is universal. I keep and raise Beagles, and you can't TEACH them to hunt, you can only take them out and LET them! It's in their blood (genetics), and they either will or won't. That said, I train mine to come and down EVERYTIME! The very smartest thing I ever did was to train them to come to a Ref's whistle, that sound carry's a LOOOOONG way, much farther that your voice can, and on public areas you can have road noise or 3-5 party's making noise and yelling to confuse them.
I bought a plastic toy cap gun at a toy store for gun training. A puppy will naturally want to play and that's fine. get them involved in a good game of fetch, and at some point you throw the ball or ? and while they're running after it, shoot off a cap. Sometimes they will look back, and maybe come to see (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman). Let them smell it and scruff their ears. Once or twice and they will ignore it. I move up to a .22 blank, then progress to a .32 blank, make sure to not make the mistake of shooting too close to them at first.


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311609
07/22/21 05:41 PM
07/22/21 05:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,077
Wyoming
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cmcf Offline
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Posts: 3,077
Wyoming
Some good stuff in hear. One thing the OP said needs a little adjustment IMHO. The first two or three weeks will be for obedience and the basics”. In a word “no” to get the average pup to be rock solid on obedience and the basics takes months not weeks. Two to three hrs per week administered in short intense sessions of 1/4–1/2 hours/ day / week of FUN FUN AMD MORE with lots of praise and very little scolding. And the lessons slid in the mix as game.When pup starts to lag or loose interest end the lesson with a little play then stop. No distractions at first such as kids or other animals. Just you and her. As time goes by the bond grows and displeasing you would be the last thing on her mind. Kind & consistent and hundreds of repetitions.
No dog was ever bred to gather eggs but Granddad had one that he taught to do just that.
Surely you can teach a dog that was bred to hunt birds, to hunt birds.
And nix on the chasing rabbits, because rabbits run as do dogs, dogs keep the hope that they can catch the rabbit. But birds fly and the dog knows they can’t catch them even though it’s fun try.
Some European breeds can be trained for fur and feathers but the pointers not as much, as chase and point are
diametrically opposed.

Last edited by cmcf; 07/22/21 06:08 PM.

“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311618
07/22/21 05:51 PM
07/22/21 05:51 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,522
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Joined: May 2016
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Southern Illinois
I used to get a jump start on the pointing and holding thing using something like an old glove on a fishing line and reel. My biggest problem was getting them to retrieve live quail without turning them into hamburger.

Had an old friend that trained a dog to point on vanilla wafers. When he had a buyer come to look at him, he just threw a vanilla wafer out in the weeds and the dog found and pointed it flawlessly. The guy bought the dog and after bird season came in he brought the dog back and wanted his money back. He said he wouldn't point nothing but vanilla wafers.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311620
07/22/21 05:53 PM
07/22/21 05:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,629
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Georgia
The gun training is best done during fun time so that they are somewhat distracted and not nervous or fearful and eventually learn to associate it with good stuff. Eventually you get to the point of association with game bagged.
Had one walker that knew bang meant coon thumping the ground. She would give me dirty looks if it didn't. Worse than a wife that one.


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Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311622
07/22/21 05:55 PM
07/22/21 05:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,629
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Georgia
Had a beagle that got fired up just at the sight of a gun. He knew gun meant hunting and he was ready to go.


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Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311857
07/22/21 10:36 PM
07/22/21 10:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,137
mo.
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nate Offline
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mo.
Don't expect a boy to do a man's job. Keep them hungry for it. Boy that gets ice cream every day gets bored of it , one that only gets it once awhile wants it. Youngsters get bored easy matured they eat it up. More dogs are ruined by starting them to early than any other way.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311859
07/22/21 10:41 PM
07/22/21 10:41 PM
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Posts: 2,137
mo.
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nate Offline
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mo.
Think if something scares a youngster they are usually done with it. I don't like taking that chance. Even when they get older they don't really like it. Like a little kid that sees a dead dog in a ditch it scars them.

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: warrior] #7311865
07/22/21 10:53 PM
07/22/21 10:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 673
higginsville, mo
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headache73 Offline
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higginsville, mo
Originally Posted by warrior
The gun training is best done during fun time so that they are somewhat distracted and not nervous or fearful and eventually learn to associate it with good stuff. Eventually you get to the point of association with game bagged.
Had one walker that knew bang meant coon thumping the ground. She would give me dirty looks if it didn't. Worse than a wife that one.

My favorite bluetick I ever had would tree hard. Until the light quit moving and the gun came up. He'd ease himself under that light like a pup waiting for a treat and try to catch it

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7311976
07/23/21 08:27 AM
07/23/21 08:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 610
Southaest Kansas
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Coyote Clayton Offline
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 610
Southaest Kansas
Please find a bird dog club or club in your area. Doesn't have to be the same breed as yours. Go to the activities they put on.

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Last edited by Coyote Clayton; 07/23/21 08:33 AM.


Compulsive Coyote Washer
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7312036
07/23/21 10:02 AM
07/23/21 10:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,061
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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SEPA
Good stuff there Coyote Clayton.


Eh...wot?

Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7312045
07/23/21 10:21 AM
07/23/21 10:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,140
NC - Here there and everywhere
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coondagger2 Offline
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NC - Here there and everywhere
I got a lab that came from a great pedigree out of Iowa. Drove from NC to Iowa I wanted her so bad. She's about 6 1/2 months old now and doing great. Don't confine yourself to 2 or 3 weeks to teach all of her obedience. I don't know how old your pup is but when I got mine she was 8 weeks. When they are that young I try to just teach them how to learn. You can go ahead and get them sitting and all of that but you wanna make it really short and really fun. It needs to be a POSITIVE experience.

All the books will tell you a little different time frame, but you will know when your dog is ready for formal obedience training. My dog was moving along very quickly so I started formal obedience at about 5 months. I started with heel, sit, stay and here. Then moved on to remote sit and figure 8 heel training at different walking paces. She had already gotten pretty good at kennel and the other small things when she was young. She is now completely whistle trained and introduced to hand signals. She does great with heeling and has came a long way. I also introduced her to water and gunfire along the way. She has been a natural at all things related to retrieving and being a duck dog which is why I have focused so hard on obedience.

Since I'm done with formal obedience my next step with her is force fetch. IF you want your dog to retrieve, this is a very important step IMO. Don't expect your dog to make clean retrieves if you never taught it how. A dog can learn anything you can teach it. They will absolutely amaze you with how smart they are. You just have to figure out how to get in touch with that. Good luck!


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7312051
07/23/21 10:36 AM
07/23/21 10:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,191
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Online content
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Trap Setter  Online Content
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Posts: 4,191
Eau Claire Wi
All good advice and I will only add that hunting rabbits can ruin a good dog in my opinion. Rabbits have a lot of smell and are easy to track. I had a Springer as a kid and worked really hard to train her to hunt and retrieve birds (pigeon, grouse, phesants,woodcock,ect) she was doing great till I shot a rabbit in front of her when she was about a year and a half old. She was never the same after that still hunted birds but if we hit a rabbit trail she was gone till it holed up or she ran it by me and I could catch her. It was crushing to see as I'd put many hours in and I know she would have been a great bird dog if I hadn't done that. I still enjoyed many memorable hunts with her but I always wondered what if.

Now I am not telling you what to do, just telling you some of my experiences.


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: Dog training advice please [Re: rattrapper1234] #7312164
07/23/21 12:58 PM
07/23/21 12:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,476
Idaho
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bearcat2 Offline
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Idaho
Not a bird dog man, so not a lot of advice on training her for bird hunting. I will say I read Gun Dog years ago and found it good. Work with her on obedience, this is something that will be a lifelong thing, not just a few weeks. I raise hounds and I start them on come here as soon as I start feeding them, calling the puppies as a come out with a bowl of milk or puppy food. Also I like to start with shooting around them when I feed them. I feed my dogs once a day, and most like there food. Start out with someone else (if you have someone, I did it by myself for years when single, but it is easier with someone to help) standing a ways away firing a gun after they start eating and you standing next to them and if they flinch or cower and stop eating, pet them up and get them eating again, continue to pet them and have your helper fire again. Once they ignore the gunshot from a distance you can move closer until you are firing while standing over them and they won't flinch. My dogs are actually trained to come to gunshots, something rarely used anymore in the days of modern tracking collars, but back before tracking collars when you lost your hounds you would drive to different high spots and overlooks and shoot and holler. A gunshot carries farther than practically any other easily made noise.

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