Rifle technique
#7313174
07/24/21 11:53 PM
07/24/21 11:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 811 Interior Alaska
30/06
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 811
Interior Alaska
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My 15yo daughter has been shooting our Bergara .308 once or twice weekly since early spring, practicing for next month's hunt. I mounted a Magpul bipod, and that has tightened her groups. Today we graduated to 200yds, and a confusing problem arose. The rifle shoots about 3" high at 100 yds from the bench, centered horizontally. Prone, with bipod supports, it shot slightly high but 3-5" left for her, low and 1-2 right for me. I am baffled. Barrel temp was warm from start to finish at 200 yds, so I don't think barrel heating was an issue, nor wind, loads, weather. Perhaps we squeeze the trigger differently? Is one of us, likely me, is twisting the rifle as the trigger breaks? We are both right handed, shooting a right handed Bergara with 22" barrel, and 7.62x51 ammo with 147gr bullets. FWIW, I'm an NRA certified basic rifle instructor, but not tons of experience at it and I haven't taught in several years. Any ideas? Thanks
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313181
07/25/21 12:08 AM
07/25/21 12:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Parallax. You and she may be centering the target differently in the eyepiece?
Just speculating.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313189
07/25/21 12:44 AM
07/25/21 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914 North East Kansas
Marty
trapper
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trapper
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Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
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I would check the cheek welds being different from bench to prone. Take a photo of both and review them. Wrist and hand angle on the trigger hand would be the next thing to look at.
E 'Honey Badger Militia' Sleep, the anti woke adote.
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313191
07/25/21 12:53 AM
07/25/21 12:53 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,870 Mn
nightlife
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,870
Mn
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Slight differences in how you and her hold it can have big differences in point of impact which is why a person should sight in their own gun
�Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks.� ― Robert A. Heinlein
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: Bruiser1]
#7313222
07/25/21 06:19 AM
07/25/21 06:19 AM
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 888 SD
TC1
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 888
SD
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Very little, if any, at standard ranges. Long range yes, but not the case here. Save your cash and look at the above mentioned issues. Possibly try shooting from bags, just for grins also? Cant can certainly cause issues at much longer ranges though. Also make sure rails/bases and rings are all good to go. Good luck
Long live the MAGA King
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313226
07/25/21 06:41 AM
07/25/21 06:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,751
williamsburg ks
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Bruiser1
Buy a bubble level that attaches to the scope. If the rifle is canted one way or another it really gets magnified with distance yep. or just consciously straighten up the vertical crosshair.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: danny clifton]
#7313239
07/25/21 07:17 AM
07/25/21 07:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,892 eastern WV
Ridge Runner1960
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,892
eastern WV
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Bruiser1
Buy a bubble level that attaches to the scope. If the rifle is canted one way or another it really gets magnified with distance yep. or just consciously straighten up the vertical crosshair. You cannot do this, there is no way you can straighten up the crosshair, put a level on your rifle and try if you don't believe me. what appears plumb through the scope in different terrain is not plumb. been shooting deer at ungodly ranges for years and I can't do it!
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313258
07/25/21 08:20 AM
07/25/21 08:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,836 Pa
Wright Brothers
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trapper
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Posts: 3,836
Pa
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A plumb bob string in the line of sight will be easy to tell if your angle changes with different holds. Where or how the pod is mounted may be considered. Shoot a group, take it off and repeat.
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313302
07/25/21 09:33 AM
07/25/21 09:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059 Ky
jbyrd63
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,059
Ky
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LEAD SLED Line it up and shoot. THEN you shoot it at same range. Then let her shoot it. Sand bagged or bi-pod for you and her. IF shes hunting with it why bother how it shoots for you ? Some around here worry how the rifle shoots for the grown up because if the Parents target deer steps out the kid is moved out of the way and parent does the shooting.... .
Last edited by jbyrd63; 07/25/21 09:35 AM.
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313303
07/25/21 09:37 AM
07/25/21 09:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,473 West Central MN
20scout
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,473
West Central MN
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Could be any one of the things others have mentioned. I would also check finger placement on the trigger. One of you could be pushing or pulling the trigger to one side or the other. This usually doesn't show too much with a rifle but really shows when shooting a pistol. Little things like this are amplified by distance and the difference between two shooters and the same rifle. Just my .02 worth.
Common sense is a not a vegetable that does well in everyone's garden.
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313305
07/25/21 09:45 AM
07/25/21 09:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,767 Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,767
Central, SD
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Give her a empty chamber and see what happens, I’d film it to be able to review it and go over it later.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313335
07/25/21 10:49 AM
07/25/21 10:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,780 St. Cloud, MN
trapperkeck
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,780
St. Cloud, MN
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Take a level to the range and draw a perfectly plumb vertical line on your target. Now, each of you line up, naturally, on the target and see how the line on target lines up with your windage crosshair. Should tell you something.
"The voice of reason!"
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Re: Rifle technique
[Re: 30/06]
#7313364
07/25/21 11:30 AM
07/25/21 11:30 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,392 Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,392
Green County Wisconsin
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1 sight alignment with a scope this means your eye is behind it and you don't see shadows at the edge of the optic crisp clear image edge to edge , build up cheek riser as needed so her eye is in the same place with a solid cheek well also vertical sights or cross hair
2 sight picture with a scope , this is placing the cross hair on the target , sounds simple , but you need to use your body position to the rifle and not your fine motor muscles
3 respiratory pause empty your breath watching the sights fall or rise to the target as you let your breath out , let it out till you are empty take a few seconds to adjust your body to get the sight picture then breath again you can only really see what your sight picture will be when you are at the bottom if the breath cycle
4A focus you eye on the front sight crisp sight blurry target with a scope this is a lesser step 4B focus your mind on keeping the front sight on the target your focusing on keeping the cross hair on the target
5 squeeze the trigger , sqweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze lots of E's to emphasize it is not a pull or a jerk it is a building of pressure till the break not just sqeeeze but strait back and not dragging wood with your trigger finger the trigger finger from the point it leaves the palm of the hand doesn't touch anything but the trigger , work on moving your index finger without sqweezing the rest of your hand center of the pad of your finger on the center of the trigger.
6 follow through hold the trigger back , call your shot a mental snapshot of where the cross hair was when you broke the trigger. you can take a breath post recoil when you have gone back and forward
if you are using muscles to hold the rifle on the target , as you get tired you can't hold it , if you position your body to place the rifle on target you are in a relaxed state
people who hold the gun with muscle can relax as the trigger breaks and throw the shot
respiratory pause breath in and out a few times letting the sights fall to the target. empty is empty , some 1/4 or 1/2 let out of breath is slightly different every time
follow through is huge , keep the trigger back , keep the cheek on the stock , you shouldn't be using muscle and should be relaxed. call the shot this is where shooting steel helps , get used to not moving or doing anything until you hear the clank of the bullet hitting the steel then inhale , let of the trigger , if it is a bolt action work the bolt trying not to break position , get back to position run the 6 steps again
NPOA is huge , but not really addressed in the 6 steps Natural Point of Aim when relaxed at the bottom of your breath where is your body pointing the rifle it is sort of a 2B you run breath , exhale , adjust body to get sight picture , breath , exhale test
this all sounds like it takes a long time but once you master it you get fast , as a test we transition to prone , load , find npoa , fire 2 , reload find npoa , fire 8 repeating the process with every shot and have some time left on 65 seconds putting 10 rounds in the target at 300 yards every breath is a shot
Law dog makes a good point about flinch , ball dummy drill to see if she has a flinch then keep it going dummy till the ball surprises her
5 inches at 200 yards from a rest is a lot for just parallax or just the difference in how the gun recoils against you vs her
I like a 200 yard zero on a hunting gun , then there is no guessing on 100 yards , you get zero at 200 and see where that hits at 100 it will be the least difference it can be then if you plan to shoot further you see where you fall and write it down.
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 07/25/21 11:32 AM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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