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Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: WIMarshRAT] #7321512
08/04/21 11:30 AM
08/04/21 11:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,022
East Central Wi.
coyote addict Offline
trapper
coyote addict  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,022
East Central Wi.
Originally Posted by WIMarshRAT
Originally Posted by bblwi
I feel we should proceed with caution as there could be a change in the "planned or original goal" of 350 wolves. That was done with bears when the research indicated there were about 10K more than the original 15K that was thought to be out there, now we deal with the over 20K of bear as the norm. Yes there probably will be law suits coming from both ends which means the science will not be a major impact factor as the legal arguments are made.

Bryce


Did the state ever try to shut down the bear harvest until they could get a higher population goal? Or did they just let hunters lead the effort to drive acceptance for a higher population? Hunters will lead if you give them the chance, but you have to show them you are willing to fight for them.


I believe in 1985 the DNR closed the season on bear due to low numbers.


Member -W.T.A. N.T.A. - N.R. A.
A Shotgun. A Rifle and a 4 Wheel Drive.. A Country Boy. Will Survive
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: coyote addict] #7321560
08/04/21 01:04 PM
08/04/21 01:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,293
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,293
East-Central Wisconsin
Not all female wolves have a litter every year. The pack model determines that with the alpha males and females. However there could be increased repro as they sense lower numbers or very good habitat to support more animals. We just need to find ways to minimize the wolves into our southern farmland and more populated areas. There is way more biological carrying capacity in southern WI then northern WI and we have enough marshes and protected areas that would make control difficult at best.
With roughly 50-70K of deer hit and or killed by autos how many wolves could exist on road kill alone? In WI we used to pay crews to clean up the road kill but we decided to save the money and I don't know about you but the vulture numbers in our area have tripled or more since that time, let alone the other species. Some times we make political decisions that can really change the biological components.
Bryce

Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7321634
08/04/21 02:45 PM
08/04/21 02:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
Originally Posted by coyote addict

I believe in 1985 the DNR closed the season on bear due to low numbers.


I wonder who was asking the department to limit harvest? Any idea on if we were we under or over goal? Any thing we can learn from this example?


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7321666
08/04/21 03:30 PM
08/04/21 03:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
Bryce, I tend to agree so let's look back at the last conservative harvest and how it impacted the number of wolves in southern farmland. Folks are probably sick of this example, but here it is again.

After a significant harvest in 2013(257), the department decided to go conservative with their wolf harvest in 2014-5 season. With a off reservation midpoint winter count of 648, the state recommended a quota of 156. 150 of that quota was given to state license holders. The state also decided to pressure zone 6 and put a quota of 35 which was over 100% of the midpoint winter count (28). So what happened?

Well we harvested 36 wolves or nearly 129% of midpoint winter count, yet the population grew from 7 packs to 11. The very opposite of what we wanted to have happen.

So since we had population growth in zone 6, we didn't harvest 20% of actual population since science says 20-29% give us stable, but we had growth. Since we harvested 36 wolves, I can divide by .2 to get a more realistic population estimate. 36/.2=180. Published science says I need 40% to start to decrease population. So if I take 180X.4=72. Assuming no growth in zone 6 since 2014, we would need to harvest 72 wolves to start to see the population go down.

Now here is a fun little tidbit about this zone. What is the last actual population estimate for zone 6? 56. If we harvest 129% of this number like we did in 2014, that also gives us a quota of 72.

If we started with 156 like they did in 2014 and only swap out my increase for zone 6, that gets us to 192. So unless we go higher in quota for the other zones, we will continue to see population growth in zone 6.







Last edited by WIMarshRAT; 08/04/21 03:42 PM.

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: bblwi] #7321698
08/04/21 04:15 PM
08/04/21 04:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 388
wisconsin, manitowoc
mutt Offline
trapper
mutt  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 388
wisconsin, manitowoc
Originally Posted by bblwi
From my perspective I would have hoped the committee would have asked for more than 130 but not as high as 300. Asking for a 140% increase over what the Department is asking for to me does not seem to be a sincere or serious attempt at gaining more permits being offered. Sure we want to reduce the population and that can be done, but it does not have to be done in one year. We have had over a half a decade with no harvest so being willing to get seasons over time to measure the result of harvests will help to better solidify what the numbers should be in the future. Also asking for that many after 200 plus wolves were harvested in the same year to me actually lowers the value of a permit for a trophy. We now are looking at wanting to harvest more wolves then bobcats in a season and we have spent a lot of money and time trying to increase the bobcat population as with fisher, marten and even bear we are not looking to decrease the numbers from a goal that was readjusted up by almost 70% a few years ago. As a trapper I can see the rationale but I don't feel we should be treating one predator with such contempt while we have actually paid money to do research to increase other predator species. I don't feel we should make the antis job any easier than it is already.

Bryce



It's not for the WCC to "ask" for a number of tags to be issued. They recommend a quota based off the information they bring to the table. No one should adjust their calculations because they are afraid to rock the boat. The animal lovers are already fighting for 0. The DNR is twisting their formulas and likely dealing with political pressure to recommend a number that doesn't p... off either side too much. And the WCC is recommending if the carrying population is the goal then they recommend a full force season like in the prior full seasons because the population is still not under control.

Last edited by mutt; 08/04/21 04:19 PM.
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7327684
08/11/21 05:44 PM
08/11/21 05:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
If you would like to see the NRB discussion on wolf quota today, you find at link below.

https://youtu.be/PiNrFT4Dfzw

Board passed a quota of 300 after failing to pass a couple motions for much more liberal quota.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7328484
08/12/21 03:20 PM
08/12/21 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
P
Pike River Offline
trapper
Pike River  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
Just saw that they increased the quota this year back up to 300.

Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7328858
08/12/21 11:41 PM
08/12/21 11:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
Good news. Sure hoping I draw a tag.

The DNR game managers wanted only 130. I don't think they realized how overpopulated we are with wolves.

Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7329046
08/13/21 08:51 AM
08/13/21 08:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
I hope you draw a tag too, AJE!

I was most disappointed in the DNR Secretary throwing a temper tantrum when he and the administration were called out for their deceptive tricks and playing politics with the issue. It only grew worse as it became clear he wouldn't get his way. I am glad I took the time to testify as you can no longer claim they don't know.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7337741
08/23/21 04:47 PM
08/23/21 04:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
Any doubt this administration would do everything in their power to keep from harvesting more wolves was eliminated when Josh Kaul decided he would try to remove a board member. Looks like the legislature is going to use funds to defend Prehn.

https://www.weau.com/2021/08/21/law...suit-over-chair-natural-resources-board/


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7337769
08/23/21 05:38 PM
08/23/21 05:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
HSUS wants to pick his replacement. What a sham.

Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7337770
08/23/21 05:43 PM
08/23/21 05:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,117
Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
Hodagtrapper Offline
Muskrat Master
Hodagtrapper  Offline
Muskrat Master

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,117
Northern Wisconsin,Rhinelander
I bet the odds are better than 50% that the leftist prevail.

Chris


>>In God we trust<<
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7337979
08/23/21 09:48 PM
08/23/21 09:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
Ugly times.

On a brighter note, Biden administration finally got something right....


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-wolf-hunting-protections-criticism-activists/




Last edited by WIMarshRAT; 08/24/21 04:52 PM.

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7338012
08/23/21 10:24 PM
08/23/21 10:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 390
Missouri Ozarks
N
N.Roberts Offline
trapper
N.Roberts  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 390
Missouri Ozarks
On another note, I’m enjoying Missouri.

Enjoy the fall convention, I’ll miss those.

Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7338249
08/24/21 08:59 AM
08/24/21 08:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
Lots of nonresidents still come to the convention. Don't be a stranger.

But I cant talk. I live pretty close and I cant make it work this year.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7338555
08/24/21 04:27 PM
08/24/21 04:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
Looks like HunterNation is stepping back up to the plate again....


https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...gainst-dnr-board-chair-prehn/8242172002/


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7340454
08/26/21 09:51 PM
08/26/21 09:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
The lady trying to replace him would be a disaster.

Last edited by AJE; 08/26/21 09:51 PM.
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: AJE] #7342060
08/28/21 10:32 PM
08/28/21 10:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
Originally Posted by AJE
The lady trying to replace him would be a disaster.


She held a leadership position on the Bayfield CDAC. They ignored very strong public input against their recommendation and refused to adjust their original recommendation for antlerless permits on public land to account for the feedback. Thankfully the current board adjusted the permit levels when it came before them.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7347386
09/04/21 01:23 AM
09/04/21 01:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin
A
AJE Offline
trapper
AJE  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,007
WI - Wisconsin

Re: Wisconsin Wolves [Re: handitrapper] #7356572
09/15/21 07:41 PM
09/15/21 07:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
WIMarshRAT Offline
trapper
WIMarshRAT  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,771
WI
https://www.fws.gov/news/ShowNews.c...ay-wolf-in-the-western-us-&_ID=36998

Not wi, but I bet it makes into the arguments for the cases dealing with WI.


Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
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