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Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7332485
08/17/21 04:00 PM
08/17/21 04:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
Redknot Offline
trapper
Redknot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
Great Lakes water can only be used within the Great Lakes watershed...I agree with those questioning why some live in the desert, yet want to water their gardens...


~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~
Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7332499
08/17/21 04:25 PM
08/17/21 04:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,425
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,425
Georgia
It's not just commiefornia and the desert southwest. Longterm water is going to be problems everywhere.

Apalachicola Bay on the Florida Panhandle has closed indefinitely the harvest of oysters, arguably among if not the finest tasting oysters in North America. This is just the latest in a generation long saga of how water is managed up stream. Specifically the Chattahoochee River which rises in the southern appalachians and drains the western half of Georgia and is the easternmost drainage of the Gulf of Mexico.
The core issue is Atlanta, a metropolitan area of over five million souls. Atlanta sits on a low ridge east of the river and the vast bulk of it's water is either pumped directly from the Chattahoochee or from Lake Lanier, a flood control impoundment of the Chattahoochee. But instead of returning that water to the Chattahoochee after treatment instead the bulk of that goes over the ridge into the South River, historically the most polluted river in Georgia, which drains into the Altamaha system and on into the Atlantic.

Florida, Alabama and Georgia spent decades and millions of dollars in litigation over the Chattahoochee and water rights. During the last major drought Lake Lanier was drawn down to half capacity just to supply Atlanta. It almost led to war with Tennessee as Atlanta leadership looked into an old border dispute that would've given Georgia access to a half mile stretch of the Tennessee River. Tennessee was ready to send the National Guard to prevent Atlanta from tapping the river for water.

And that's just north Georgia. Pull up a Google earth satellite photo of south Georgia and it's a photo of wall to wall crop circles from pivot irrigation all drawn from the deep underground Florida aquifer which is the origin of the river of grass we know as the Lake Okeechobee/Everglades system. Already we have seen and are seeing historic springs throughout south Georgia with reduced or non existent flows.


[Linked Image]
Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7332508
08/17/21 04:40 PM
08/17/21 04:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,892
new york
M
mike mason Offline
trapper
mike mason  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,892
new york
15 to 20 years ago, plans were there to build a water pipeline from Alaska, I believe estimated cost was 10-20 billion. Drop in the bucket to the money the dems are throwing away on unicorn projects.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: Turtledale] #7332517
08/17/21 04:57 PM
08/17/21 04:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,459
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
W
walleyed Offline
trapper
walleyed  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,459
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
Originally Posted by Turtledale
If they tap into the great lakes the lakes are doomed. People need to leave the desert. Don't deplete and abuse our natural resources, live in harmony with them.


Turtle,

With all due respect, how was that harmony with nature in
2017 and 2019 when the high water from Lake Ontario,
and maybe Lake Erie was flooding people out ?

w


"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association
Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters

I Support Non-Resident Trapping



Re: Water restrictions [Re: J.Morse] #7332524
08/17/21 05:12 PM
08/17/21 05:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,459
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
W
walleyed Offline
trapper
walleyed  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,459
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
Originally Posted by Turtledale
If they tap into the great lakes the lakes are doomed. People need to leave the desert. Don't deplete and abuse our natural resources, live in harmony with them.


Turtle,

With all due respect, how was that harmony with nature in
2017 and 2019 when the high water from Lake Ontario,
and maybe Lake Erie was flooding people out ?

w
Originally Posted by J.Morse
All the states and Ontario have a pact betwixt themselves....NO water leaves the Great Lakes Basin without they all ok it. What are the chances of that? Slim-to-none. The day will come when a shooting war will be fought over the freshwater in the Great Lakes. It is likely in the not too distant future. We are lucky as heck in this area, we have water galore. It wouldn't take much to change all that. A few years with drought and it could all go away. About 20 years ago we had a spell of drouthy weather.......lakes dropped to lows like none of us had ever seen. The rivers and streams were trickles in places.......that was just through a dry spell, what if those spells turn into 3-4 years, or a decade or two? Our aquafers and water tables will drop in a big wownay. Maybe it won't happen, but it wasn't that long ago that the southern Great Plains dried up to the point that a huge population shift happened. Nothing stays the same for ever.......ask the folks that used to be commercial fishermen on the Aral Sea!


If the states with more electoral votes decide they want Great lakes water,
The Great Lakes Water Compact will be summarily shredded by the federal Gubmint.

If we are already "wasting" water by dumping it down the St. Lawrence River
in high water cycles, why not get ahead of the curve by diverting surplus to
arid regions and leaving enough to keep Montreal afloat.

You think if the Federal government wants our Great Lakes water they wouldn't seize it ?

Better to get ahead of the curve and dictate the surplus water distribution
on our Great Lakes State (and Canadian) terms.

walleyed

Last edited by walleyed; 08/17/21 05:12 PM.

"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association
Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters

I Support Non-Resident Trapping



Re: Water restrictions [Re: walleyed] #7332531
08/17/21 05:20 PM
08/17/21 05:20 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
S
Steven 49er Offline
trapper
Steven 49er  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,421
mn north of blakely
Originally Posted by walleyed
Originally Posted by Turtledale
If they tap into the great lakes the lakes are doomed. People need to leave the desert. Don't deplete and abuse our natural resources, live in harmony with them.


Turtle,

With all due respect, how was that harmony with nature in
2017 and 2019 when the high water from Lake Ontario,
and maybe Lake Erie was flooding people out ?

w


I would say the harmony was working pretty good, it's not a good idea to build where there isn't too much water and maybe not so good to build in areas that can flood


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: Water restrictions [Re: walleyed] #7332538
08/17/21 05:25 PM
08/17/21 05:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 7,212
W NY
Turtledale Offline
trapper
Turtledale  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 7,212
W NY
Originally Posted by walleyed
Originally Posted by Turtledale
If they tap into the great lakes the lakes are doomed. People need to leave the desert. Don't deplete and abuse our natural resources, live in harmony with them.


Turtle,

With all due respect, how was that harmony with nature in
2017 and 2019 when the high water from Lake Ontario,
and maybe Lake Erie was flooding people out ?

w

Don't build in deserts
Don't build in floodplains

Same thing


NYSTA, NTA, FTA, life member Erie county trappers assn.,life member Catt.county trappers
Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7332681
08/17/21 08:12 PM
08/17/21 08:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,035
wyoming southeast
D
danvee Offline OP
trapper
danvee  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,035
wyoming southeast
Shifting water around caused the problem in the desert areas and will just create more problems and is like putting a band aid on a severed limb. The only benefit of watering the desert is you can produce food year around. They need to conserve water, stop flood irrigating and conserve water. Oglala aquifer will be the next problem area and no fix there until the next ice age. Problem is to many people to feed and everyone Al gore types that have to have multiple houses and waste resources. Another problem that comes with reservoirs like Lake Mead, Powell, Grand Coulee and Ft Peck is when they go dry there will be a grand loss of hydro electric power production the death of a lot of fisheries. Tapping the great lakes is not conceivable because of environmental issues. water loss for users there and would not last long those reservoirs are big. If you have never seen the amount of water coming down the grand canyon, headwaters of the Missouri and the Columbia river you know what I mean.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: KeithC] #7332688
08/17/21 08:18 PM
08/17/21 08:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by KeithC
Originally Posted by warrior
Well live in a desert and I guess you do without.


Sam Kinnison has a great bit on this, that due to some foul language, I can't post here. Here is a transcript cleaned up.

"You want to help world hunger? Stop sending them food. Don’t send them another bite, send them U-Hauls. Send them a guy that says, “You know, we’ve been coming here giving you food for about 35 years now and we were driving through the desert, and we realized there wouldn’t BE world hunger if you people would live where the FOOD IS! YOU LIVE IN A DESERT!! UNDERSTAND THAT? YOU LIVE IN A DESERT!! NOTHING GROWS HERE! NOTHING’S GONNA GROW HERE! Come here, you see this? This is sand. You know what it’s gonna be 100 years from now? IT’S GONNA BE SAND!! YOU LIVE IN A DESERT! We have deserts in America, we just don’t LIVE in them, morons!”

Keith


One of his best and he had a good point.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: mike mason] #7332691
08/17/21 08:21 PM
08/17/21 08:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
B
Bob_Iowa Offline
trapper
Bob_Iowa  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
Originally Posted by mike mason
15 to 20 years ago, plans were there to build a water pipeline from Alaska, I believe estimated cost was 10-20 billion. Drop in the bucket to the money the dems are throwing away on unicorn projects.


At least it would put the welders to work that aren’t on the keystone pipeline, here we’re really dry the Iowa river could be crossed with knee boots I’m pretty sure we’ve lost quite a few beaver and muskrats, the beavers don’t bother me but it’s a shame.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7332758
08/17/21 09:56 PM
08/17/21 09:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,035
wyoming southeast
D
danvee Offline OP
trapper
danvee  Offline OP
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,035
wyoming southeast
Pipe line as big as the Grand Canyon dream on.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7332829
08/17/21 11:30 PM
08/17/21 11:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,293
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,293
East-Central Wisconsin
The Great Lakes have well over 60 million people in the USA and Canada living in the watershed. Yes they are the largest supply of fresh water in a concentrated region in the world but the watershed that feeds those 5 large water bodies is very small when one considers the cubic feet of water in those lakes and the amount of water used. The Great Lakes watershed in general has not received the moisture over the last year or so that many areas have. The west needs to find a long term dependable water source or the landscape will change dramatically. Ag is a huge consumer of water and is low on the totem pole when it comes to wealth to buy out the water rights or keep them Probably going to be some huge and consequential court decisions in the future if moisture does not come soon and in large amounts. As long as we are spending trillions maybe spending some on water infrastructure and new methods that could be practical. Maybe people would not pollute the oceans as much as they do if they knew the water was coming back to their water tap or shower.

Bryce

Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7332855
08/17/21 11:57 PM
08/17/21 11:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 605
North Dakota
B
BFP Offline
trapper
BFP  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 605
North Dakota
There was an older gentleman that sat on the state water board the same time l did. He always said someday water will be worth money than oil, he may be right.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: BFP] #7332868
08/18/21 12:33 AM
08/18/21 12:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
trapper
SJA  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
Originally Posted by BFP
There was an older gentleman that sat on the state water board the same time l did. He always said someday water will be worth money than oil, he may be right.


The old man had foreseeable wisdom.


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7332897
08/18/21 05:10 AM
08/18/21 05:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922
east central WI
D
Dirty D Offline
trapper
Dirty D  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922
east central WI
building in a desert is one thing but building in a desert and having swimming pools, water fountains, watering grass lawns, washing cars and thinking that water will never run out is beyond stupid.

I'm always amazed at the stupidity of man, every time I visit the daughter in Vegas I see it better than anywhere else I've been.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: J.Morse] #7332963
08/18/21 07:29 AM
08/18/21 07:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 695
Ontario
S
Saskfly Offline
trapper
Saskfly  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 695
Ontario
Originally Posted by J.Morse
All the states and Ontario have a pact betwixt themselves....NO water leaves the Great Lakes Basin without they all ok it. What are the chances of that? Slim-to-none. The day will come when a shooting war will be fought over the freshwater in the Great Lakes. It is likely in the not too distant future. We are lucky as heck in this area, we have water galore. It wouldn't take much to change all that. A few years with drought and it could all go away. About 20 years ago we had a spell of drouthy weather.......lakes dropped to lows like none of us had ever seen. The rivers and streams were trickles in places.......that was just through a dry spell, what if those spells turn into 3-4 years, or a decade or two? Our aquafers and water tables will drop in a big way. Maybe it won't happen, but it wasn't that long ago that the southern Great Plains dried up to the point that a huge population shift happened. Nothing stays the same for ever.......ask the folks that used to be commercial fishermen on the Aral Sea!


Remember that marinas where high and dry, had to shut down. Ferry's could not run because the docks where not usable.

Anyone remember Cape Town in South Africa running out of water? Not sure what happened there but it was in the news a couple of years ago. The water was basically rationed by the town shutting it off for sections of the town on a rotating basis. Hong Kong had the same thing happen in the 60's I believe, the water was only turned on for parts of the day.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7333105
08/18/21 10:39 AM
08/18/21 10:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,526
MN
D
Donnersurvivor Offline
trapper
Donnersurvivor  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,526
MN
Found this video interesting, 13 Golf courses and a bunch of lawns in the desert. The disregard for natural resources is astounding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWpui1P9cAY

Re: Water restrictions [Re: BFP] #7333114
08/18/21 10:56 AM
08/18/21 10:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 510
Utah
foxhunter52 Offline
trapper
foxhunter52  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 510
Utah
Originally Posted by BFP
There was an older gentleman that sat on the state water board the same time l did. He always said someday water will be worth money than oil, he may be right.

I couldn't agree more. People just keep moving in from out of state and expect the water to be there. And it probably will be for those willing to pay. My son, who works for the Department of Water Quality, always says, Water doesn't flow down hill, it flows toward money.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7333125
08/18/21 11:13 AM
08/18/21 11:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,860
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,860
Indiana
Seriously one of the reasons I was hesitant looking out west when looking for ground . Water rights and laws seemed observed. Some stated you can't collect rain water off your roof becuse some how it belongs to the people down stream.

Just seems odd to a guy that has lived within 45 min or less to the 2nd largest river in the country.

Re: Water restrictions [Re: danvee] #7333533
08/18/21 07:51 PM
08/18/21 07:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
B
Bob_Iowa Offline
trapper
Bob_Iowa  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,554
North central Iowa
This did get me thinking about desalination plants, if they were viable, about cleaning the water and pumping it up into Colorado and Montana to the head waters of the Colorado river and the Missouri and let it flow from there now it probably could never be enough to raise the water levels during a dry year but if it could maintain the levels until there was more rain and snowfall to then raise it, it’s just a thought but maybe one day it could happen.

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