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Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: PSB1011] #7345878
09/02/21 08:12 AM
09/02/21 08:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,561
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,561
Wheaton Ks
Originally Posted by PSB1011
There should be no exceptions ,none,--if I can not trap, than their should be no government trappers, home owner trapping problem animals should be strictly forbidden.If I am excluded from trapping than everybody else should be also.Period.

Exactly Phil. I've been saying that forever. Look at Co. All the trappers out there have been turned into ADC trappers. While I agree the stupids that make such laws should pay....I say, let them choke on their precious critters! Pass stupid laws, pay for your actions!


Now officially an old fart
http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Anything can happen when your trappin!
Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: wy.wolfer] #7345919
09/02/21 09:06 AM
09/02/21 09:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 565
minnesota
G
gman Offline
trapper
gman  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 565
minnesota
So what happens if you get caught trapping on public lands in NM? Are you taken into custody for a DNA test? Would " I identify as a native american" work? I think it takes a court order for a DNA test.

Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: lee steinmeyer] #7345953
09/02/21 09:54 AM
09/02/21 09:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Hiawatha Forrest, U.P. Michiga...
Spade Offline
trapper
Spade  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Hiawatha Forrest, U.P. Michiga...
Originally Posted by lee steinmeyer
Originally Posted by PSB1011
There should be no exceptions ,none,--if I can not trap, than their should be no government trappers, home owner trapping problem animals should be strictly forbidden.If I am excluded from trapping than everybody else should be also.Period.

Exactly Phil. I've been saying that forever. Look at Co. All the trappers out there have been turned into ADC trappers. While I agree the stupids that make such laws should pay....I say, let them choke on their precious critters! Pass stupid laws, pay for your actions!


I'll agree 100% with both, only problem is the individuals who pass the laws, will just pass laws that make the taxpayers, pay for it, whether your a trapper or not.


24 years Army Medical Corps

I only want to be known as:

A great husband, a good trapper, and a great steward of the land.
Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: wy.wolfer] #7345994
09/02/21 10:56 AM
09/02/21 10:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,601
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,601
Armpit, ak
If fur trappers were actually regulating animal populations, their would be little need for adc.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: Boco] #7346003
09/02/21 11:10 AM
09/02/21 11:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,295
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
trapper
Trapper7  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,295
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted by Boco
You guys dont get it.
Indians are sovereign Nations,they make their own laws they do not recognize laws imposed by the colonizers.
They couldnt give a crap what your government allows you to do or doesnt allow you to do.
They have their own government and their own laws and those laws allow them to hunt fish and trap.It is all written in treatys which are nation to nation agreements.These treatys in a lot of cases are ratified by the supreme court.They have been tested and passed the legal tests,and in fact are now case law.
If you want to have the same hunting rights as the indians have-get your government to grant them to you.

Everything you've said is true about Indians.
What I have problem with is if they're a sovereign nation, why are they allowed to vote in our elections? I can't vote in theirs.


Some mornings I wake up grouchy. Some mornings I let her sleep.
Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: Trapper7] #7346026
09/02/21 11:32 AM
09/02/21 11:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Hiawatha Forrest, U.P. Michiga...
Spade Offline
trapper
Spade  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Hiawatha Forrest, U.P. Michiga...
Originally Posted by Trapper7
Originally Posted by Boco
You guys dont get it.
Indians are sovereign Nations,they make their own laws they do not recognize laws imposed by the colonizers.
They couldnt give a crap what your government allows you to do or doesnt allow you to do.
They have their own government and their own laws and those laws allow them to hunt fish and trap.It is all written in treatys which are nation to nation agreements.These treatys in a lot of cases are ratified by the supreme court.They have been tested and passed the legal tests,and in fact are now case law.
If you want to have the same hunting rights as the indians have-get your government to grant them to you.


Everything you've said is true about Indians.
What I have problem with is if they're a sovereign nation, why are they allowed to vote in our elections? I can't vote in theirs.


What you say is true, but since their a sovereign nation, why do they get the same benefits, as people who are say "non-native".

Example: If they have a job opening on the res, they will post that native Americans get priority, over non native. If I was a non native and posted something like that I would be sued so fast my head would be spinning.

I can't live or own property on the res, but they can live off the res. and own property, and still have all the benefits of a Native-American.

The native americans have their own gaming laws, and their gathering permits are free, but if they want to go over the limits set by their tribes, they can go out and buy a state trapping license, to increase their catch beyond what they are allowed under their gaming laws.

Somethings are not just right, whether is has been tested in the courts or not..


24 years Army Medical Corps

I only want to be known as:

A great husband, a good trapper, and a great steward of the land.
Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: wy.wolfer] #7346033
09/02/21 11:47 AM
09/02/21 11:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,295
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
trapper
Trapper7  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,295
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Spade,

You are right. A casino near our lake home once advertised that very thing: Help Wanted. Natives Preferred. Try that if you're a white person.

They can net, spear, fish walleyes in the lake with no size limitations unlimited number. They do have an annual weight limit quota which I doubt they really keep very good track of.
Non-natives could take one walleye between 21-23 inches from opening day for about 3 weeks after that. Then, you could fish walleyes, but not keep any until July and August at which time you couldn't fish them at all. In September I believe you can fish them again, but not keep any until the winter season at which time you might be able to take one. That's yet to be determined I was told from what I understand.


Some mornings I wake up grouchy. Some mornings I let her sleep.
Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: wy.wolfer] #7346034
09/02/21 11:49 AM
09/02/21 11:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 686
western Oklahoma
D
Davisfur Offline
trapper
Davisfur  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 686
western Oklahoma
This reminds me of a story my dad used to tell. I can't remember whether it was the 60s or 70s but there had been a big Indian uprising against the government I think in the Dakotas and a couple of them got shot. Anyhow a bunch of them came down here and hold up on tribal land down on the river. They had armed guards at all points of entry and walking the perimeter. At that time there were very few deer in this area and a lot of people had spent thier entire life not seeing one but they were making a big effort to reintroduce deer here. My dad saw his first one at the age of 17 and had been in the woods since he could walk. One of the very few places that had a decent population of deer was on the river and he said the Indians that were hold up down there killed deer and piled them in big piles like firewood out by the county road where the law and passersby could see them and then let them rot just to show everyone that they could and to thumb thier noses at the government. He said even after they calmed down and packed up and went home there were still big piles of rotting deer down there. He estimated that they probably killed and piled between 75 and 100 deer that wasted to make a point.

Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: wy.wolfer] #7346058
09/02/21 12:29 PM
09/02/21 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,032
Aliceville, Kansas
Yukon John Offline
trapper
Yukon John  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,032
Aliceville, Kansas
Originally Posted by wy.wolfer
Native Americans are the only public allowed to trap on public land in New Mexico. So your ancestry and parentage dictate if you are allowed to trap now? Sounds really racist to me, we should take another look at race based hunting and trapping issues now.

But that's different!


Act like a blank, get treated like a blank. Insert your own blank!
Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: adam m] #7346068
09/02/21 12:45 PM
09/02/21 12:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,300
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
W
wy.wolfer Offline OP
trapper
wy.wolfer  Offline OP
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,300
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
Originally Posted by adam m
Originally Posted by wy.wolfer
Native Americans are the only public allowed to trap on public land in New Mexico. So your ancestry and parentage dictate if you are allowed to trap now? Sounds really racist to me, we should take another look at race based hunting and trapping issues now.

There was a thread on this during the legislative session.
Do you use fur for religious ceremonies, practices and other religious activities? We use animals in many ways not just for a profit.
Do you not see that at your view of it's racist that only natives can trap fails to see if there's a trapping issue the natives will be blamed?
I don't want me and other Natives to be blamed when a non native sets an illegal set and gets a dog caught in it? Natives always get blamed even if they aren't the cause.

Hunting, trapping, and fishing are a pretty religious experience for me, and I guarantee my ancient relatives all hunted, fished and trapped as much as yours.

Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: Boco] #7346071
09/02/21 12:48 PM
09/02/21 12:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,300
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
W
wy.wolfer Offline OP
trapper
wy.wolfer  Offline OP
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,300
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
Originally Posted by Boco
You guys dont get it.
Indians are sovereign Nations,they make their own laws they do not recognize laws imposed by the colonizers.
They couldnt give a crap what your government allows you to do or doesnt allow you to do.
They have their own government and their own laws and those laws allow them to hunt fish and trap.It is all written in treatys which are nation to nation agreements.These treatys in a lot of cases are ratified by the supreme court.They have been tested and passed the legal tests,and in fact are now case law.
If you want to have the same hunting rights as the indians have-get your government to grant them to you.

That sounds like a true subject of the crown.

Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: Davisfur] #7346103
09/02/21 01:47 PM
09/02/21 01:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,295
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
trapper
Trapper7  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,295
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted by Davisfur
This reminds me of a story my dad used to tell. I can't remember whether it was the 60s or 70s but there had been a big Indian uprising against the government I think in the Dakotas and a couple of them got shot. Anyhow a bunch of them came down here and hold up on tribal land down on the river. They had armed guards at all points of entry and walking the perimeter. At that time there were very few deer in this area and a lot of people had spent thier entire life not seeing one but they were making a big effort to reintroduce deer here. My dad saw his first one at the age of 17 and had been in the woods since he could walk. One of the very few places that had a decent population of deer was on the river and he said the Indians that were hold up down there killed deer and piled them in big piles like firewood out by the county road where the law and passersby could see them and then let them rot just to show everyone that they could and to thumb thier noses at the government. He said even after they calmed down and packed up and went home there were still big piles of rotting deer down there. He estimated that they probably killed and piled between 75 and 100 deer that wasted to make a point.

I really believe that was the original reason there were unlimited fishing rights given to them, because they couldn't net or spear like everyone else couldn't. But, because of their race, they wanted special privileges given to them.

Since the netting, spearing, etc started things have slowly backfired for the casinos. I'm told they've been struggling. The casino owners aren't smart enough to realize this fact. When they used casino money to fund their lawsuits to get these rights they claimed were given to them, it set the ball in motion on a downward spiral for the casinos. The number of fishermen has dwindled. Resorts are going broke for lack of income. Casino attendance has dropped significantly. The economy in the area has suffered as well. None of this will ever come back unless the netting and spearing is stopped.

They net in the spring of the year, in the spawning beds, while the fish are spawning. Kind of comparable as the big piles of rotting deer, isn't it?


Some mornings I wake up grouchy. Some mornings I let her sleep.
Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: wy.wolfer] #7346120
09/02/21 02:17 PM
09/02/21 02:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 28,436
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 28,436
Central, SD
Move to a Reservation and see what little free will get you.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: Trapper7] #7346126
09/02/21 02:36 PM
09/02/21 02:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 686
western Oklahoma
D
Davisfur Offline
trapper
Davisfur  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 686
western Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Trapper7
Originally Posted by Davisfur
This reminds me of a story my dad used to tell. I can't remember whether it was the 60s or 70s but there had been a big Indian uprising against the government I think in the Dakotas and a couple of them got shot. Anyhow a bunch of them came down here and hold up on tribal land down on the river. They had armed guards at all points of entry and walking the perimeter. At that time there were very few deer in this area and a lot of people had spent thier entire life not seeing one but they were making a big effort to reintroduce deer here. My dad saw his first one at the age of 17 and had been in the woods since he could walk. One of the very few places that had a decent population of deer was on the river and he said the Indians that were hold up down there killed deer and piled them in big piles like firewood out by the county road where the law and passersby could see them and then let them rot just to show everyone that they could and to thumb thier noses at the government. He said even after they calmed down and packed up and went home there were still big piles of rotting deer down there. He estimated that they probably killed and piled between 75 and 100 deer that wasted to make a point.

I really believe that was the original reason there were unlimited fishing rights given to them, because they couldn't net or spear like everyone else couldn't. But, because of their race, they wanted special privileges given to them.

Since the netting, spearing, etc started things have slowly backfired for the casinos. I'm told they've been struggling. The casino owners aren't smart enough to realize this fact. When they used casino money to fund their lawsuits to get these rights they claimed were given to them, it set the ball in motion on a downward spiral for the casinos. The number of fishermen has dwindled. Resorts are going broke for lack of income. Casino attendance has dropped significantly. The economy in the area has suffered as well. None of this will ever come back unless the netting and spearing is stopped.

They net in the spring of the year, in the spawning beds, while the fish are spawning. Kind of comparable as the big piles of rotting deer, isn't it?

Yes it sounds similar if I remember correctly dad said they were killing the deer in spring and summer because I remember him remarking that it was hot enough that they couldn't understand why someone would want to kill a deer for meat because it would spoil in no time flat and he also said none of the deer had thier antlers on and the fawns still had spots. They were basically just killing for the pure meaness of it and I find that to be really sad for a people who sometimes claim to be in tune with nature and respecting of animals.

Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: wy.wolfer] #7346168
09/02/21 03:56 PM
09/02/21 03:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,616
SE Kansas
K
K52 Offline
trapper
K52  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,616
SE Kansas
I kinda doubt that all the buffalo killed at the buffalo jumps were all used.

Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: wy.wolfer] #7346203
09/02/21 05:24 PM
09/02/21 05:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,198
Dunbar, Wisconsin
P
Pike River Offline
trapper
Pike River  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,198
Dunbar, Wisconsin
A man is only good as his word. A nation can only be trusted as far as they uphold /honor their treaties.

Maybe a senator can bring forward a bill and deratify the treaties we dont like?

Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: K52] #7346204
09/02/21 05:25 PM
09/02/21 05:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,198
Dunbar, Wisconsin
P
Pike River Offline
trapper
Pike River  Offline
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P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,198
Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by K52
I kinda doubt that all the buffalo killed at the buffalo jumps were all used.

You're correct. Because of the massive glut of meat they ate the tongues until their hearts delight and other delicacies. Made some jerky and took a few hides.... The rest was left to the crows and coyotes.

Re: Racism at the least for trappers? [Re: wy.wolfer] #7346285
09/02/21 07:47 PM
09/02/21 07:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,052
Va
B
bandy Offline
trapper
bandy  Offline
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B

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,052
Va
[Linked Image]
I get along with those Cherokee people really good as a matter of a fact I'm heading down there tomorrow. Gonna try to get another one of those 5,000.00 tags on a rainbow trout wish me luck.


No matter where you go there you are.
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