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Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 #7355205
09/14/21 01:49 AM
09/14/21 01:49 AM
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James Offline OP
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King James version:

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.


[/[b]New International version:


28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Can someone help me understand these verses? In verse 28, "Son of Man" means Jesus himself, right? The "regeneration" (KJV) or "renewal of all things" (NIV) refers to the second coming of Jesus to the earth? I think I get that much.

But Jesus goes on to promise each of his twelve disciples a throne from which to judge a tribe of Israel. Am I interpreting this part of verse 28 correctly? I've always been told only God (the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) can judge. And who will judge all of us Gentiles? Jesus himself, or will we be divided up among the twelve disciples? I know earthly judges, and each has their own preferences and biases. I always thought I'd be judged, if at all, by God himself. God, I've always thought, would be fair, one way or the other. But a human judge makes me nervous.

I think I understand verse 29, but I can't accept my interpretation because it violates my moral upbringing. Promoting wife and child abandonment for the selfish motive of attaining great wealth and immortality? What about the lives and afterlives of the wives and children left behind?

In contrast to well-known verse 30 ("But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first"), I've never heard a priest or minister discuss Verses 28-29 from the pulpit. I don't know what to make of them.

Jim


Last edited by James; 09/14/21 01:50 AM.

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Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355218
09/14/21 04:13 AM
09/14/21 04:13 AM
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Matthew 22:37

Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355225
09/14/21 04:26 AM
09/14/21 04:26 AM
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Quote
Revelation 20:4-6

4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years
.

I think the judgement given go them was more if the sense of a ruling, though kings were to decide judgements of the law. They will be spirit beings. And Satan will be removed. The world will be a very different place.

Those who don't come up in the first resurrection, are addressed in verses 11-15

Quote
11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


I don't interpret the bible as saying that people will be tortured in a lake a fire.

God would have to give you eternal life to to that. I believe that for those that are thrown into the lake, it will be as it says here, A second death.

I don't think when it says leave family here that it exactly means total abandonment, though it may come to that at times. But more of making the Kingdom of God a priority above all else.

And to try to understand the mark on the head and the hand you will need to go read in Deuteronomy.

Just my 2 cents

Last edited by amspoker; 09/14/21 04:29 AM.

Levi
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355226
09/14/21 04:36 AM
09/14/21 04:36 AM
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James Offline OP
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"...and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds."

Doesn't this passage refute the idea that salvation lies in faith alone in Jesus Christ? This verse seems to be saying that you will be judged according to your faith and your deeds (good works). This verse is good support for the Catholic position.

Your interpretation, amspoker, strikes me as entirely plausible.

Jim

Last edited by James; 09/14/21 04:38 AM.

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Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355229
09/14/21 04:46 AM
09/14/21 04:46 AM
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Satan himself quoted Scripture in an effort to ensnare.

just sayin'.


"necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt the Younger
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355232
09/14/21 04:49 AM
09/14/21 04:49 AM
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btw...you're going to be on danny's Shiite list for posting another Bible thread.

Last edited by white marlin; 09/14/21 05:29 AM.

"necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt the Younger
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355237
09/14/21 05:13 AM
09/14/21 05:13 AM
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Bible threads dont bother me. What bothers me is I am expected to ignore them. When I start a thread on my beliefs I still get chastised.



I realize a BIG part of church and religion is patting self and others on the back for being so faithful but it does get old.

Last edited by danny clifton; 09/14/21 05:14 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: danny clifton] #7355244
09/14/21 05:30 AM
09/14/21 05:30 AM
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white marlin Offline
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
Bible threads dont bother me. What bothers me is I am expected to ignore them. When I start a thread on my beliefs I still get chastised.


that must be so hurtful...


"necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt the Younger
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355263
09/14/21 06:09 AM
09/14/21 06:09 AM
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Well, the earth (not so much heaven) in all its glory, has revolved to a place where people who don't place faith in the Bible debate people who do. Why do they care? Well, welcome y'all to the post-modern thinking age where subjective truth (whatever an individual thinks) has emerged as the faith of our times. And it's here to stay until the next round of human wonder emerges. Maybe space travel?

From the Renaissance Christians who sparked great movements in astronomy, physics, and science on into the Enlightenment Era of wonderful art, and music, and renouncing of the Renaissance folk as outdated, and into he modern era where great nations were formed like America and Darwin and Freund solved the human body and soul puzzles insisting that certain species were destined to survive over others, which led to Marx saying no, man can be more if he is not tethered to a production machine for himself alone, but rather is part of the collective of humanity or Hitler who said no, Darwin is correct, Aryans are the master race but things to cull the human herd have not taken place and the Rhineland will get right on that, to all of humanity just saying in about 1960-80... the post-modern era... that you know what, every time people tried to sort it out, it turned out a mess......

so watcha gonna do.... gonna do my own thing,
who ya gonna call.... ghost busters.
watcha wanna say...... (well I can't say the F word that has become a theme of post-moderns) followed by the word "you" or "off.

Welcome to our times, where things are what has been handed to us from our forefathers (see above).
Where looking for love in all the wrong places has made some of us look inward more than outward.
Not all. Not most. But some.
Cause some things we're not doing a real good job of fixing.
But I do like AC, modern medicine and MB 550s!!

Blessings and hug your kids.
In fact, skin critters together with 'em.

Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355321
09/14/21 07:42 AM
09/14/21 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by James
"...and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds."

Doesn't this passage refute the idea that salvation lies in faith alone in Jesus Christ? This verse seems to be saying that you will be judged according to your faith and your deeds (good works). This verse is good support for the Catholic position.

Your interpretation, amspoker, strikes me as entirely plausible.

Jim

Ok, last things first: No, because this judgment isn't about gaining eternal life, it's about rewards. If one has forsaken much for Christ he receives more rewards on the new earth, such are ruling over others.
There is the concept of being first or last in the kingdom in much of scripture.
He who has given much will be rewarded with much.


Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355323
09/14/21 07:49 AM
09/14/21 07:49 AM
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Pottawatamie co. IA
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More pearl being cast to the swine. Such a waste. Nothing will be gained for the Kingdom. Just perversion of truth by a couple apostate minds. LLL


Isaiah 51:6 But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355332
09/14/21 08:15 AM
09/14/21 08:15 AM
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Referring to the verses first mentioned, taken out of context, Jesus answered a question from Peter about wealth and reward, sacrifice and station. If those with him daily for years did not get the picture yet, he exaggerated to try and let them see it is not about this life but a future, and had just told them that impossible for a man was possible for God.


Born twice, die once
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355334
09/14/21 08:18 AM
09/14/21 08:18 AM
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OP,
The idea of leaving family, fields, etc, simply means those believers who have given up more than other believers, such as martyrs, etc.. We will all be rewarded, some more than others. But, scripture says that out of gratitude we will all lay our rewards at the feet of Jesus; in other words we all eventually will be on the same level.

James,
The judgment you are referring to isn't about eternal life versus eternal death.


"I'm not skilled to understand"
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: PAskinner] #7355380
09/14/21 09:24 AM
09/14/21 09:24 AM
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Oakland, MS
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Originally Posted by PAskinner
Originally Posted by James
"...and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds."

Doesn't this passage refute the idea that salvation lies in faith alone in Jesus Christ? This verse seems to be saying that you will be judged according to your faith and your deeds (good works). This verse is good support for the Catholic position.

Your interpretation, amspoker, strikes me as entirely plausible.

Jim

Ok, last things first: No, because this judgment isn't about gaining eternal life, it's about rewards. If one has forsaken much for Christ he receives more rewards on the new earth, such are ruling over others.
There is the concept of being first or last in the kingdom in much of scripture.
He who has given much will be rewarded with much.


This. I think there is a misconception that all will be equal in new Millennium. Someone that sins much in life, for example James, maybe your remarried couple, will not have the same ranking in heaven as someone like Billy Graham. Those who go above and beyond in this life for Christ will reap more rewards in the next than those who just squeak by with a D average.

Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355395
09/14/21 09:44 AM
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I prefer Genesis 3:16 myself.


I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355414
09/14/21 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by James
I think I understand verse 29, but I can't accept my interpretation because it violates my moral upbringing. Promoting wife and child abandonment for the selfish motive of attaining great wealth and immortality? What about the lives and afterlives of the wives and children left behind?


As I wrote in the concurrent theological thread...let the dead bury their dead. I thought I might be called upon to do the very thing you mention when I first became a believer. I was totally prepared to do so. Leave my wife behind. She wasn't a believer at the time and I wasn't going to let any earthly relationship get in the way of following Christ.

The Bible tells us if an unbelieving spouse chooses to stay and remain married, so be it. If they they choose to depart, so be it.

It had nothing to do with selfishness or attaining wealth, it had to do with separation from sin.

Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: Posco] #7355428
09/14/21 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Posco
Originally Posted by James
I think I understand verse 29, but I can't accept my interpretation because it violates my moral upbringing. Promoting wife and child abandonment for the selfish motive of attaining great wealth and immortality? What about the lives and afterlives of the wives and children left behind?


As I wrote in the concurrent theological thread...let the dead bury their dead. I thought I might be called upon to do the very thing you mention when I first became a believer. I was totally prepared to do so. Leave my wife behind. She wasn't a believer at the time and I wasn't going to let any earthly relationship get in the way of following Christ.

The Bible tells us if an unbelieving spouse chooses to stay and remain married, so be it. If they they choose to depart, so be it.

It had nothing to do with selfishness or attaining wealth, it had to do with separation from sin.



1 Corinthians7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: James] #7355434
09/14/21 11:06 AM
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Why do people have to make things so hard. It says what it says . Can you see why people like Danny have trouble with the faith? You all can't agree on anything. It's not what I think or what you think but what it says do you really think God would make it so hard to understand? Would your father set you up to fail?

Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: waggler] #7355461
09/14/21 12:03 PM
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James Offline OP
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Originally Posted by waggler
OP,
The idea of leaving family, fields, etc, simply means those believers who have given up more than other believers, such as martyrs, etc.. We will all be rewarded, some more than others. But, scripture says that out of gratitude we will all lay our rewards at the feet of Jesus; in other words we all eventually will be on the same level.

James,
The judgment you are referring to isn't about eternal life versus eternal death.


So we will all be rewarded according to our faith and deeds? That's what Catholics believe.

Your second statement is a plausible statement. What is the purpose of the apostles' judging? Is that revealed elsewhere in the Bible.


Jim


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Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29 [Re: rex123] #7355463
09/14/21 12:04 PM
09/14/21 12:04 PM
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James Offline OP
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Originally Posted by rex123
Why do people have to make things so hard. It says what it says . Can you see why people like Danny have trouble with the faith? You all can't agree on anything. It's not what I think or what you think but what it says do you really think God would make it so hard to understand? Would your father set you up to fail?


But a straightforward interpretation appears to be inconsistent with passages elsewhere and/or modern beliefs.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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