|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: James]
#7355762
09/14/21 07:35 PM
09/14/21 07:35 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,882
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
|
"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,882
williamsburg ks
|
There is nothing all laid out in revelation. 100 people will read it and come away with 100 different interpretations. Just like every good prophecy. Get explicit and prophecy falls apart.
I was taught the trinity, father son and holy ghost, are like water ice and steam. Different manifestations of the same creator
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: James]
#7355781
09/14/21 07:57 PM
09/14/21 07:57 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497
PA
PAskinner
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497
PA
|
The majority of believers in Christian history didn't believe in a rapture. ( I'm ducking because I assume somebody's going to throw something at me)
I know it's a very common belief now, but it actually has very little biblical support.
Catholics don't officially believe in the rapture, neither do lutherans and Angelicans, and some Calvinists.
I'm not saying either way, just clarifying that one doesn't have to accept rapture theology to be a Christian.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: amspoker]
#7355813
09/14/21 08:26 PM
09/14/21 08:26 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
amspoker
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
|
There is nothing all laid out in revelation. 100 people will read it and come away with 100 different interpretations. Just like every good prophecy. Get explicit and prophecy falls apart.
I was taught the trinity, father son and holy ghost, are like water ice and steam. Different manifestations of the same creator 10And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11He answered and said to them, “ Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I [b]should heal them.’ 16But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. [And also keep in mind..] 1My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Levi
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: James]
#7355824
09/14/21 08:41 PM
09/14/21 08:41 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
amspoker
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,650
Southeast Ohio
|
There are over two-hundred references to the old testament in Revelation.
You have to let the Bible interpret the Bible.
I don't have it figured out yet.
Working on it.
Levi
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: James]
#7355925
09/14/21 10:10 PM
09/14/21 10:10 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
OP
"Minka"
|
OP
"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
|
I think God would more likely be fair, impartial, and just. I've seen human judges make decisions out of their feelings, bias, or dislike of a particular lawyer or party.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#7356349
09/15/21 01:55 PM
09/15/21 01:55 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,718
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,718
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
|
Yotetrapper, your interpretation is plausible, but not inevitable. Other interpretations are possible. I'd like to hear what Mark thinks of yours.
I never knew that most people, even most Christians, believe the Rapture has already happened. My Christian parents, son, and daughter-in-law don't believe that.
What does surviving "tribulation" mean? Is tribulation the same as the Rapture? Have I survived tribulation, and if so, how, since I'm not a Christian?
Jim No, Jim, I mean by "this point (Chapter 20) in Revelation", not right now. Many if not most Bible scholars believe the Rapture occurs before the 7 year tribulation period begins. All believers will be raptured to Heaven. Just before or after that, a peace treaty will be signed with Israel. That marks the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation. The purpose of the Tribulation period is to turn as many of the unbelievers that are left on earth into believers before the end of the world. During the tribulation, there will be 21 judgments sent from God, each worse than the one before. The 7 seal judgments, the 7 Trumpet judgments, and the 7 bowl judgments. During this time, 144,000 Jews and more other people than can be counted will turn to Christ. It's a second chance for those left behind after the rapture. During those 7 years, 3/4 of the earth's population will die... some will die in Christ, and some without. At the end of the 7 years, 1/4 of the population will remain. Those are the people being judged in Rev. 20. There are some variations of course to what people believe regarding the Rapture and Tribulation (and I think that would be a great thread in and of itself) and I'm no Bible scholar, but I think this is a general idea for you of what happens. I would suggest reading ALL of Revelation, as it's all laid out there plain as day. There are two thoughts on the Rapture and tribulation. Some scholars believe the Rapture will be prior to the tribulation. Others believe the opposite, there will be the tribulation, then the Rapture. I happen to believe in the first interpretation which makes more sense. The tribulation is like a second chance for those left behind.
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: PAskinner]
#7356350
09/15/21 01:57 PM
09/15/21 01:57 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,718
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,718
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
|
The majority of believers in Christian history didn't believe in a rapture. ( I'm ducking because I assume somebody's going to throw something at me)
I know it's a very common belief now, but it actually has very little biblical support.
Catholics don't officially believe in the rapture, neither do lutherans and Angelicans, and some Calvinists.
I'm not saying either way, just clarifying that one doesn't have to accept rapture theology to be a Christian. And yet in the Catholic mass, they say: "Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again".
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: James]
#7356370
09/15/21 02:52 PM
09/15/21 02:52 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
OP
"Minka"
|
OP
"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
|
In the Catholic Church I was raised in, we were taught that Christ shall return for a Judgment Day. I never knew the details, and found it impossible to suspend disbelief in Revelations.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: James]
#7356405
09/15/21 03:47 PM
09/15/21 03:47 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497
PA
PAskinner
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497
PA
|
In the Catholic Church I was raised in, we were taught that Christ shall return for a Judgment Day. I never knew the details, and found it impossible to suspend disbelief in Revelations.
Jim It is obviously symbolism. I read a book that explained that a lot of it happened in the immediate history after John wrote it. The symbols made sense to me when used that way. Often when we use them apply to future events we are just guessing. Which is why you have people thinking that Kissinger or Gorbachev was going to be the Antichrist.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: James]
#7357500
09/17/21 02:17 AM
09/17/21 02:17 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
OP
"Minka"
|
OP
"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
|
Interesting explanation, PA, and the most plausible I've heard, maybe even more plausible than my drug/fever delirium theory.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: James]
#7357534
09/17/21 06:26 AM
09/17/21 06:26 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,882
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
|
"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,882
williamsburg ks
|
Jehovah witnesses had a date when they first started out, the date came and nothing happened though. A good prophecy is never a simple direct statement. It sounds like hallucination so the believers can just keep waiting. Except for prophecies that have already occurred. Since they are written after the fact there is always detail and not just a description of what sounds like hallucination. A few years ago some Indians in the Dakotas were pretty excited. A white buffalo was born on a ranch. That buffalo wasn't the harbinger of what they are waiting on though either.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: bowhunter27295]
#7357635
09/17/21 08:53 AM
09/17/21 08:53 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,286
Maine, Aroostook
Posco
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,286
Maine, Aroostook
|
When I stand before GOD I will lay flat on my face in remorse and apology for all I have done wrong. I don't think so. There is that one verse about being saved "yet so as by fire" that has me wondering.
|
|
|
Re: Interpretation of Matthew 19: 28-29
[Re: danny clifton]
#7357728
09/17/21 10:35 AM
09/17/21 10:35 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,718
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,718
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
|
[quote=danny clifton] Jehovah witnesses had a date when they first started out, the date came and nothing happened though. A good prophecy is never a simple direct statement. It sounds like hallucination so the believers can just keep waiting. Except for prophecies that have already occurred. Since they are written after the fact there is always detail and not just a description of what sounds like hallucination. A few years ago some Indians in the Dakotas were pretty excited. A white buffalo was born on a ranch. That buffalo wasn't the harbinger of what they are waiting on though either. [/quot
Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the Watchtower Society concluded that the 144,000 referred to them. When that number of members of WS had been reached, the end would come; the world would end. When that never happened, they had to come up with a more believable excuse. They have predicted the end of the world several times. The last one was in the 1970s.
I knew a man who was a lifetime member of the WS. When they predicted the end of the world in the 1970s, he sold his business in anticipation of the end. Of course, when it never happened, he left the society.
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
|
|
|
|
|
