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America - pluralism is our roots #7359898
09/20/21 09:59 AM
09/20/21 09:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,785
Texas
Mark June Offline OP
trapper
Mark June  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,785
Texas
This post may help some better understand the trajectory our culture is on;

Pluralism: "the holding of two or more offices or positions as benefits at the same time.

As our culture has become more secular, pluralism has been viewed by some as a threat, by some as a defense against others, and by some as a positive outcome of a diverse culture.
With such a vague definition, pluralism has none-the-less become a strong topic with emotions on all sides.

D.A. Carson, from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Chicago, has researched and written extensively on this topic. He suggests there are three (3) distinct views of pluralism and they are;

A first pluralism definition is, empirical pluralism, which Carson defines as "the growing diversity in our culture," as we all consider the amazing diversity of America. Carson writes; "America is the largest nation of Jewish, Irish, and Swedish in the world. It is the 2nd largest black nation and soon it will be the 3rd largest Hispanic nation," and these facts don't even speak to the multitudes of small diversities within America. Ethnic and racial diversity is everywhere. Vast numbers of the world's diverse philosophical, religious, and cultural diverse people have come to America and "current immigration patterns are bringing in more and more people with little heritage in the Judea-Christian tradition, and this doubles the impact of the people within the country who for various reasons have lost or abandoned the tradition. None of this was foreseen by the founding Fathers, little of it foreseen forty years ago"

A second definition Carson calls, cherished pluralism, "the belief that diversity and variety in our culture is a good thing and it is to be desired." Empirical pluralism says that we live in a society which is plural in the sense of various peoples and various religions and lifestyles and cherished pluralism goes beyond that to "affirm the integrity of that diversity. In other words, the reality, empirical pluralism, has become a value in itself, even a priority: it is cherished."

Historically Americans have prided themselves as being a "melting pot," so pluralism is nothing new to any of us. Where else in the world have so many diverse people come together as "one" and accomplished so much? Our motto is E plumbs unum, meaning "out of the many, one." So there's nothing new about cherished pluralism. Our founding Fathers forged upon it.

The third understanding of pluralism however is proving to be a problem. Carson refers to it as philosophical pluralism. "Philosophical pluralism holds that there can be no opinion or religion that claims to possess the absolute truth." Carson puts it this way;

"This is, by far, the most serious development. Philosophical pluralism has generated many approaches in support of one stance: namely, that any notion that a particular ideological or religious claim is intrinsically superior to another is necessarily wrong. The absolute creed is the creed of pluralism. No religion has the right to pronounce itself right or true, and the others false, or even (in the majority view) relatively inferior... pluralism is seen to be the truth. It's a ideal philosophy for those who believe nothing and insist the others share their ignorance. Philosophical pluralism is the new darling or America, and it is vastly different from where we have come."

So here we are in 2021. In the name of tolerance, there will be increasing intolerance.

John Piper warns of this progression form tolerance for people's culture and people's religion; "Beware of replacing real truth-based tolerance with spurious professional tolerance. Once upon a time tolerance was the power that kept lovers of competing faiths from killing each other. It was the principle that put freedom above forced conversion. It was rooted in the truth that coerced conversion is no conviction. That is true tolerance. But now the new professional tolerance denies that there are any competing faiths; they only complement each other. It denounces not only the effort to force conversions but also the idea that any conversion may be necessary. It holds the conviction that no religious conviction should claim superiority over another. In this way, peaceful parity among professionals can remain intact, and none need be persecuted for the stumbling block of the cross.... this way the professional tolerators can kill others in the name of tolerance once more.

The battle will be fought even more by those we call our children.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360297
09/20/21 06:40 PM
09/20/21 06:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 67
Wy
G
Giant Sage Offline
trapper
Giant Sage  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 67
Wy
Wow no replies, maybe your speaking in strange tongs. Lol, maybe better to prophesie. Rich.
God bless.

Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360311
09/20/21 06:52 PM
09/20/21 06:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,834
PA
P
PAskinner Offline
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trapper
P

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,834
PA
Originally Posted by Mark June
This post may help some better understand the trajectory our culture is on;



"This is, by far, the most serious development. Philosophical pluralism has generated many approaches in support of one stance: namely, that any notion that a particular ideological or religious claim is intrinsically superior to another is necessarily wrong. The absolute creed is the creed of pluralism. No religion has the right to pronounce itself right or true, and the others false, or even (in the majority view) relatively inferior... pluralism is seen to be the truth. It's a ideal philosophy for those who believe nothing and insist the others share their ignorance. Philosophical pluralism is the new darling or America, and it is vastly different from where we have come."









A notion that any notion that any religion is superior is wrong, is in itself a notion that one would have to believe is superior in order to embrace.
It's a self contradiction.


Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360331
09/20/21 07:10 PM
09/20/21 07:10 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 10,452
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 10,452
Oakland, MS
Quote
Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.

Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360337
09/20/21 07:22 PM
09/20/21 07:22 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 10,163
Champaign County, Ohio.
K
KeithC Offline
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KeithC  Offline
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K

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 10,163
Champaign County, Ohio.
Diversity is making the US weak. We need to identify as Americans first before putting in all the hyphens. We need a cohesive culture or we will fall into warring parts.

Keith

Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360347
09/20/21 07:32 PM
09/20/21 07:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,786
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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East-Central Wisconsin
A higher level of acceptance and tolerance can allow for a vibrant diversity and a very strong unified American or national focus, it just takes a lot of maturity and removing fear for that to take place. As long as diversity is raised up while we still have our lack of willingness to become less fearful and parochial within ourselves and our groups we will continue to divide as we have been. A lot of discussion today is about race, creed, gender, age, etc. and those may be less then what we currently have now is a nation of close to 50-50 secular versus some religious base and neither of the two seem willing and or capable at this time to lower the tension or maybe don't want to or have a clue how to.

Bryce

Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360352
09/20/21 07:34 PM
09/20/21 07:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 123
MA
F
Flicker Shad Offline
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MA
All I know is this country has gotten worse in my lifetime. I can make it till my end. I'm worried for my children though.

Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360366
09/20/21 07:54 PM
09/20/21 07:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,785
Texas
Mark June Offline OP
trapper
Mark June  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,785
Texas
The first two categories Don Carson argues convincingly are historically "American" but the 3rd category, philosophical pluralism, is the "new normal."


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360368
09/20/21 07:56 PM
09/20/21 07:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 32,905
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
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B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 32,905
james bay frontierOnt.
Originally Posted by Mark June
This post may help some better understand the trajectory our culture is on;

Pluralism: "the holding of two or more offices or positions as benefits at the same time.

As our culture has become more secular, pluralism has been viewed by some as a threat, by some as a defense against others, and by some as a positive outcome of a diverse culture.
With such a vague definition, pluralism has none-the-less become a strong topic with emotions on all sides.

D.A. Carson, from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Chicago, has researched and written extensively on this topic. He suggests there are three (3) distinct views of pluralism and they are;

A first pluralism definition is, empirical pluralism, which Carson defines as "the growing diversity in our culture," as we all consider the amazing diversity of America. Carson writes; "America is the largest nation of Jewish, Irish, and Swedish in the world. It is the 2nd largest black nation and soon it will be the 3rd largest Hispanic nation," and these facts don't even speak to the multitudes of small diversities within America. Ethnic and racial diversity is everywhere. Vast numbers of the world's diverse philosophical, religious, and cultural diverse people have come to America and "current immigration patterns are bringing in more and more people with little heritage in the Judea-Christian tradition, and this doubles the impact of the people within the country who for various reasons have lost or abandoned the tradition. None of this was foreseen by the founding Fathers, little of it foreseen forty years ago"

A second definition Carson calls, cherished pluralism, "the belief that diversity and variety in our culture is a good thing and it is to be desired." Empirical pluralism says that we live in a society which is plural in the sense of various peoples and various religions and lifestyles and cherished pluralism goes beyond that to "affirm the integrity of that diversity. In other words, the reality, empirical pluralism, has become a value in itself, even a priority: it is cherished."

Historically Americans have prided themselves as being a "melting pot," so pluralism is nothing new to any of us. Where else in the world have so many diverse people come together as "one" and accomplished so much? Our motto is E plumbs unum, meaning "out of the many, one." So there's nothing new about cherished pluralism. Our founding Fathers forged upon it.

The third understanding of pluralism however is proving to be a problem. Carson refers to it as philosophical pluralism. "Philosophical pluralism holds that there can be no opinion or religion that claims to possess the absolute truth." Carson puts it this way;

"This is, by far, the most serious development. Philosophical pluralism has generated many approaches in support of one stance: namely, that any notion that a particular ideological or religious claim is intrinsically superior to another is necessarily wrong. The absolute creed is the creed of pluralism. No religion has the right to pronounce itself right or true, and the others false, or even (in the majority view) relatively inferior... pluralism is seen to be the truth. It's a ideal philosophy for those who believe nothing and insist the others share their ignorance. Philosophical pluralism is the new darling or America, and it is vastly different from where we have come."

So here we are in 2021. In the name of tolerance, there will be increasing intolerance.

John Piper warns of this progression form tolerance for people's culture and people's religion; "Beware of replacing real truth-based tolerance with spurious professional tolerance. Once upon a time tolerance was the power that kept lovers of competing faiths from killing each other. It was the principle that put freedom above forced conversion. It was rooted in the truth that coerced conversion is no conviction. That is true tolerance. But now the new professional tolerance denies that there are any competing faiths; they only complement each other. It denounces not only the effort to force conversions but also the idea that any conversion may be necessary. It holds the conviction that no religious conviction should claim superiority over another. In this way, peaceful parity among professionals can remain intact, and none need be persecuted for the stumbling block of the cross.... this way the professional tolerators can kill others in the name of tolerance once more.

The battle will be fought even more by those we call our children.

Blessings,
Mark








Originally Posted by Mark June
This post may help some better understand the trajectory our culture is on;

Pluralism: "the holding of two or more offices or positions as benefits at the same time.

As our culture has become more secular, pluralism has been viewed by some as a threat, by some as a defense against others, and by some as a positive outcome of a diverse culture.
With such a vague definition, pluralism has none-the-less become a strong topic with emotions on all sides.

D.A. Carson, from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Chicago, has researched and written extensively on this topic. He suggests there are three (3) distinct views of pluralism and they are;

A first pluralism definition is, empirical pluralism, which Carson defines as "the growing diversity in our culture," as we all consider the amazing diversity of America. Carson writes; "America is the largest nation of Jewish, Irish, and Swedish in the world. It is the 2nd largest black nation and soon it will be the 3rd largest Hispanic nation," and these facts don't even speak to the multitudes of small diversities within America. Ethnic and racial diversity is everywhere. Vast numbers of the world's diverse philosophical, religious, and cultural diverse people have come to America and "current immigration patterns are bringing in more and more people with little heritage in the Judea-Christian tradition, and this doubles the impact of the people within the country who for various reasons have lost or abandoned the tradition. None of this was foreseen by the founding Fathers, little of it foreseen forty years ago"

A second definition Carson calls, cherished pluralism, "the belief that diversity and variety in our culture is a good thing and it is to be desired." Empirical pluralism says that we live in a society which is plural in the sense of various peoples and various religions and lifestyles and cherished pluralism goes beyond that to "affirm the integrity of that diversity. In other words, the reality, empirical pluralism, has become a value in itself, even a priority: it is cherished."

Historically Americans have prided themselves as being a "melting pot," so pluralism is nothing new to any of us. Where else in the world have so many diverse people come together as "one" and accomplished so much? Our motto is E plumbs unum, meaning "out of the many, one." So there's nothing new about cherished pluralism. Our founding Fathers forged upon it.

The third understanding of pluralism however is proving to be a problem. Carson refers to it as philosophical pluralism. "Philosophical pluralism holds that there can be no opinion or religion that claims to possess the absolute truth." Carson puts it this way;

"This is, by far, the most serious development. Philosophical pluralism has generated many approaches in support of one stance: namely, that any notion that a particular ideological or religious claim is intrinsically superior to another is necessarily wrong. The absolute creed is the creed of pluralism. No religion has the right to pronounce itself right or true, and the others false, or even (in the majority view) relatively inferior... pluralism is seen to be the truth. It's a ideal philosophy for those who believe nothing and insist the others share their ignorance. Philosophical pluralism is the new darling or America, and it is vastly different from where we have come."

So here we are in 2021. In the name of tolerance, there will be increasing intolerance.

John Piper warns of this progression form tolerance for people's culture and people's religion; "Beware of replacing real truth-based tolerance with spurious professional tolerance. Once upon a time tolerance was the power that kept lovers of competing faiths from killing each other. It was the principle that put freedom above forced conversion. It was rooted in the truth that coerced conversion is no conviction. That is true tolerance. But now the new professional tolerance denies that there are any competing faiths; they only complement each other. It denounces not only the effort to force conversions but also the idea that any conversion may be necessary. It holds the conviction that no religious conviction should claim superiority over another. In this way, peaceful parity among professionals can remain intact, and none need be persecuted for the stumbling block of the cross.... this way the professional tolerators can kill others in the name of tolerance once more.

The battle will be fought even more by those we call our children.

Blessings,
Mark










Aint nobody got time fo dat.

Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360408
09/20/21 08:34 PM
09/20/21 08:34 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,560
ohio
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tomahawker Offline
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ohio
There’s a reason the military all get the same haircuts and wear the same uniform. Diversity does not breed strength. That bunk about diversity is our strength is the biggest piece of propaganda going.

Re: America - pluralism is our roots [Re: Mark June] #7360411
09/20/21 08:37 PM
09/20/21 08:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,861
Asheville, NC
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Not so interested in reading someone's term papers. Just give me that Good Ole Gospel Music, the song says.

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