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Pebble Creek mine..? #7360671
09/21/21 05:18 AM
09/21/21 05:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,652
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline OP
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,652
Sandhills Nebraska
How's that fight going? Has the money won yet? And the lawyers, of course.


I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360734
09/21/21 06:56 AM
09/21/21 06:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,738
Williamsport, Pa.
J
jk Offline
trapper
jk  Offline
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J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,738
Williamsport, Pa.
????


Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free. Whats supposed to be ain't always is.
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360748
09/21/21 07:10 AM
09/21/21 07:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,201
alaska
3
3 Fingers Offline
trapper
3 Fingers  Offline
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3

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,201
alaska
Latest I’ve heard is that the EPA is fixing to write up protections for the BB watershed

Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360806
09/21/21 09:07 AM
09/21/21 09:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,652
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline OP
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,652
Sandhills Nebraska
Looks like there is some native owned land in the area that would be affected. They're putting up a good fight so far.


I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360827
09/21/21 09:38 AM
09/21/21 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,438
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,438
Alaska and Washington State
I wish the environmentalist would make up their mind. I have never seen a mine that the environmentalists have not been opposed to. However, if they want to even get close to there non-fossil fuel agenda becoming a reality, we are going to have to mine nearly every known copper deposit on the planet, including the pebble.

The pebble mine will eventually be mined, I don't know if In our lifetime, but it is just too big of a deposit to be ignored. I am a commercial fisherman in the Bristol Bay. I am convinced that this mine will not arep irreparably harm the Bristol Bay salmon runs.

All that being said, I am unsure whether the pebble deposit can be economically mined at the present time. I know a little bit about economic geology. Also, I am not happy with where the pebble deposit is, I just simply don't want to see more development in places like that from a selfish perspective. But that is no reason to stop a mine being developed.


"I'm not skilled to understand"
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360857
09/21/21 10:38 AM
09/21/21 10:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,652
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline OP
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Gary Benson  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,652
Sandhills Nebraska
I think the fishery is more valuable that the minerals. Just my opinion. It's sickening what the gold diggers do to the landscape up there. From the way they show it on TV. Which may not be accurate.


I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360862
09/21/21 10:46 AM
09/21/21 10:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,438
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
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waggler  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,438
Alaska and Washington State
^^^^^^
What you are seeing on those Reality TV shows is nothing like what the Pebble Mine would be like; not even remotely. Almost all of what you are seeing on the TV shows is placer gold mining that takes place in Canada, you would never find that type of activity taking place on salmon spawning rivers in Alaska or anywhere else in the USA for that matter.

The fishery is important and the minerals are important. It is not a zero-sum game; we need both and we can have both. The Anti mine people are in large part not much different than anti trappers in how they twist "facts" in order to persuade people to believe their half truths or outright lies.

I think the Pebble deposit can be mined in a safe way. If it can be demonstrated that it can be, it should be allowed to proceed.


"I'm not skilled to understand"
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360868
09/21/21 10:52 AM
09/21/21 10:52 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,937
Alaska
D
drasselt Offline
trapper
drasselt  Offline
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,937
Alaska
I don[t think it's necessarily an either/or thing Gary. The reason I say that is I am at the headwaters of the 'pristine' upper Kenai River. It is really amazing the scale of placer gold mining that happened here beginning at the turn of the 20th century pretty much on through. Can't even tell it now unless you know what you're looking at everything is so overgrown. And the salmon still run strong after 120 years.
And if you think about it, the scale of mining is a drop in the bucket compared to when the glaciers move through or even a volcano pops off. Can and do mines mess thing up? No doubt about it. But it is not a given that's all I'm saying and things revert back from what I've seen.

Last edited by drasselt; 09/21/21 10:54 AM.

you can vote your way into socialism, but you will have to shoot your way out.
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360873
09/21/21 11:08 AM
09/21/21 11:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 503
Alaska
O
Oh Snap Offline
trapper
Oh Snap  Offline
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O

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 503
Alaska
I think the damage that the Biden administration is doing to our country if far worst than any gold mine can do to our land. The scars from mining will disappear as Tom said but the things going on in Washington are much more serious and longer lasting!


I love the smell of burning spruce---I love the sound of a spring time goose---I love the feel of 40 below---from my trapline I will never go!
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360876
09/21/21 11:20 AM
09/21/21 11:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,624
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
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D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,624
Armpit, ak
"Saying Goodbye to Bob Gillam, Pebble Mine's Worst Nightmare"

"Bob Gillam was a master strategist, and he loved to talk about his battle plans, which we did every few months—by phone, over dinner at Club Paris in Anchorage, or once, when he was in Los Angeles to see his Wharton School classmate Donald Trump, over breakfast at the Polo Lounge in Beverly Hills. He devised and then implemented complex, multi-layered battle plans that sometimes took years to roll out, ranging from litigation to electoral politics and initiatives to “shock and awe” communications to grinding community-to-community, door-to-door political organizing. He directed each plan of attack with a military precision and focus that a five-star general might envy, commanding his team of consultants, advisors, and allies with a conviction that left no room for doubt. He didn’t always win, but he never gave up, and he made sure that, with lessons learned and enough funding, he would eventually prevail."

I remember when when I took his son and grandson fishing, they both had their anti Pebble caps on. smile

" Why does Gillam care about Pebble? He has a huge house -- it's not a lodge, his flack says -- in the Lake Clark National Park and Preserve, 25 beautiful miles from Pebble. I call it the Fish Palace. It's far enough away that Sarah Palin cannot see it from her house -- or Gillam's.

The anti-Pebble fray seems focused on ensuring Gillam's fishing pals are not pestered by indications of economic growth in one of the state's poorest regions. The Pebble prospect is rich with gold, copper and molybdenum -- and maybe 1,000 jobs. Backers wonder: What's not to like? But Gillam's new ordinance gives the borough final say on any large project in its jurisdiction -- read Pebble -- that does anything to a salmon stream."


"NIMBY!"

Last edited by Dirt; 09/21/21 11:54 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360890
09/21/21 12:06 PM
09/21/21 12:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,624
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,624
Armpit, ak
"Anelon agrees fish are more important than gold, but notes few residents in his area can make ends meet solely through commercial fishing. The 2010 census counted 299 residents in both Iliamna and Newhalen. Out of those, only 26 had commercial fishing permits, and only 22 fished those permits, according to the Alaska's Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission. The estimated gross earnings for both villages from commercial salmon fishing in Bristol Bay was about $1 million. For the Lake and Peninsula Borough, estimated gross earnings were about $4 million in 2010. More than 86 percent of seafood processing jobs in Bristol Bay go to non-Alaskan residents.

The state of Alaska shares taxes paid by commercial fishermen and seafood processors with local communities. The entire Bristol Bay region gets about $2 million dollars a year, according to Kevin O'Sullivan from Alaska's Division of Economic Development.

Washington state's U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell recently wrote a letter to the Environmental Protection Agency's administrator urging the agency to block permitting if the EPA finds that harm might be done to the salmon. She called the salmon runs "economic lynchpins" for commercial fishermen not just in Alaska but also in Washington. In 2010, 538 Washington residents held drift gillnet and set gillnet commercial salmon fishing licenses in Bristol Bay, off of which they made a total gross estimated earnings of about $60 million.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: waggler] #7360892
09/21/21 12:14 PM
09/21/21 12:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,378
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,378
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by waggler
^^^^^^
What you are seeing on those Reality TV shows is nothing like what the Pebble Mine would be like; not even remotely. Almost all of what you are seeing on the TV shows is placer gold mining that takes place in Canada, you would never find that type of activity taking place on salmon spawning rivers in Alaska or anywhere else in the USA for that matter.

The fishery is important and the minerals are important. It is not a zero-sum game; we need both and we can have both. The Anti mine people are in large part not much different than anti trappers in how they twist "facts" in order to persuade people to believe their half truths or outright lies.

I think the Pebble deposit can be mined in a safe way. If it can be demonstrated that it can be, it should be allowed to proceed.



I can put you in a plane and in 30 minutes have you looking down on EXACTLY that kind of devastation about 60 miles west of here. It is still in operation. If we fly north east, we can see it again and a river that has been a biological desert since the 1920's due to mine tailings and toxic chemicals. Salmon are just now trying to re-establish a run in one of the forks of that drainage. That same river comes into my river right here at McGrath.

There is also a strangely high incidence of stomach cancers here in MCG but not in the villages upstream from the confluence of the Kusko and the toxic drainage. I don't know if it's related but it certainly is quite the coincidence, IMO.

I am not opposed to mining and mining practices have changed a lot in the last hundred years. But, I am opposed to Pebble because of its location. Most of Alaska is seismically quite active and I do not believe that this particular project can be engineered and operated in a manner that can preclude a catastrophic event at the head of drainages that support the BB fishery.

Recall that there are several active volcanoes just east of Pebble. Seismic activity is commonly associated with volcanism. Most of us on here have seen several eruptions of those volcanoes over the years and experienced quakes in the same region. Some of them pretty darn big.

For me, it is the containment of tailings and toxins in the plan that I do not trust. I believe that the fishery is far more valuable over time than the minerals


Mean As Nails
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360914
09/21/21 12:49 PM
09/21/21 12:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,624
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,624
Armpit, ak
The ole Comfish national disasters



List of Natural disasters and money given


Who is John Galt?
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360936
09/21/21 01:19 PM
09/21/21 01:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,438
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,438
Alaska and Washington State
^^^^^^^
White17
I won't dispute what you say you are seeing on the ground.
But I can hardly believe it happens in Alaska at the same apparently unregulated degree as it does in the Yukon Territory.


"I'm not skilled to understand"
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7360951
09/21/21 01:34 PM
09/21/21 01:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,378
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,378
McGrath, AK
Mark, most of these operations have been working for decades. I am also sure that there is a lot of litigation involved over the years but nothing seems to change. Pretty disconcerting to fly over and see a D9 right in the creek pushing material around. What's worse is that the entire drainage for several miles up & down stream is nothing but piles of gravel.

Interesting place though. 4000 foot runway and an entire ghost town. The stores still have items on the shelves. Used to be 10,000 people there in the early 20th century. Now there is just one operator still mining.


Mean As Nails
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7361005
09/21/21 03:01 PM
09/21/21 03:01 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,724
Montana
B
beartooth trapr Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,724
Montana
What to do huh, stillwater mine here in Montana produces lot's of minerals.

Like platinum , pladium , gold copper list go's on to.

WE DIG CLEAN AIR, and gives thousands of good paying jobs

I sure like a good paying job. cool


Let me sugar coat this
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7361011
09/21/21 03:10 PM
09/21/21 03:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,624
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,624
Armpit, ak
"A mine developed at the world-class Pebble project is expected to support as many as 1,000 full-time, direct jobs during mine operations, with average annual wages and benefits topping $100,000. In addition, a Pebble mine would generate more than $400 million in in-state expenditures and support up to 2,000 indirect jobs in the broader Alaska economy. Because it is located on Alaska mining claims, an operating Pebble mine is also expected to contribute some $66 million annually to state government coffers – including contributions to Alaska's Permanent Fund.

During mine operations, Pebble would also contribute an estimated $21 million each year in tax revenues to the Lake & Peninsula Borough, the regional jurisdiction in which the project resides. These funds, totaling some $420 million over 20 years of mining, would increase the borough's existing tax base and budget by up to 300% and provide an opportunity for local government to vastly expand the health, education and other public services it provides in 17 rural villages in southwest Alaska."


Who is John Galt?
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: beartooth trapr] #7361012
09/21/21 03:12 PM
09/21/21 03:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,848
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Online content
"American Honey"
Sharon  Online Content
"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,848
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Originally Posted by beartooth trapr
What to do huh, stillwater mine here in Montana produces lot's of minerals.

Like platinum , pladium , gold copper list go's on to.

WE DIG CLEAN AIR, and gives thousands of good paying jobs

I sure like a good paying job. cool



Same up here in the Cabinets.

There's been two mining outfits who have tried hard to access this area for years. The older one finally sold out to a Canadian Co. called Rivet .....think the spelling is right...they have been trying hard to breach all the lawsuits inherited , but so far , nothing. They did manage to build a couple office buildings at the FS road beginning, where they bought private land, but that was just to show their investors they were making some progress. That was at least five years ago. I haven't heard anything from them in years.

One big kelly hump is the Grizzly habitat that surrounds the Cabinet wilderness lands , like a sun dog, has pushed hard to keep the mining from beginning .

These mountains hold massive deposits of valued various products....time will tell.

Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7361028
09/21/21 03:31 PM
09/21/21 03:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,624
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
"The Donlin Gold Mine would be a massive open pit, hard-rock gold mine ten miles north of the village of Crooked Creek – one of the largest undeveloped gold resources in the world. If developed, it would have extensive and permanent effects on the environment and communities along the Kuskokwim River. In its current form, it involves:"

I• Significant releases of mercury into the Kuskokwim River watershed, contamination of streams and rivers, as well as destruction of wetlands;
• A threat to subsistence food sources, commercial salmon fisheries, wildlife, and public health;
• A 2-square-mile pit that would eventually fill with water and require water treatment in perpetuity;
• A 2,240-acre waste rock pile and 2,351-acre tailings impoundment;
• 122 barge trips on the Kuskokwim River every summer during the mine’s operations;
• A 315-mile-long natural gas pipeline requiring nine new air strips and numerous roads during construction.

Furthermore, the proposed natural gas pipeline would lie in the vicinity of the iconic Iditarod National Historic Trail for about 60 miles, crossing the trail 13 times. A new rule introduced by the Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race organizers limits mushers’ ability to express their viewpoints on the Donlin Gold Project, which was a primary sponsor of the 2016 race.

Haven't put that gas line down the trapline trail yet. smile


Who is John Galt?
Re: Pebble Creek mine..? [Re: Gary Benson] #7361044
09/21/21 03:56 PM
09/21/21 03:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,054
PA
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marathonman Offline
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PA
interesting read/thread I wish you all the best..no dog in this discussion I detect no liars just honest opinions..good luck to all you Alaskans

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