A little background:

Last spring in Iowa people were gathering up wild Canadian Geese as they felt they were ill from eating shad. All geese were captured by "good citezens" and later turned over to a wildlife rehabilitator. I called the Iowa DNR and said declared its a violation of the The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 to collect any migratory bird without a license or in a season. The Iowa DNR would not touch it as they said the animal was being rehabilitated by a state licensed wild animal rehabilitator. I said state law does not regulate Federally Protected species...they still refused to handle it.

I called a Federal Agent then and asked him to investigate, stating an example that if I was a hunter and had a license in season but in my freezer I had waterfowl that were not tagged I would be cited. Thus how can somebody take Federally protected waterfowl from the wild which is protected from by a treaty? He answered he would look into it asap. I also said its not right that its springtime when most predatory animals are pregnant and man is depriving them of food. He said he agrees there should not be any interference with the "circle of life" but when it comes to animal rehabilitators his hands are also tied.

Then the light came on regarding what was really wrong with the gathering of the ill geese and it was bigger then a Treaty! You see it was total interference with Mother Natures CIRCLE OF LIFE.

Trappers we learned from our predecessors and now we have become the best conservationist this country has ever had. . Why? we see Mother Natures ways it everyday for the most part. For me on my yote line I am intimately involved with it from Oct through when the fur goes sour in March. I see, hear and smell what any biologist would dream of. I see life and death and I am intimately aware of the Circle-of-Life the Federal Agent speaks of.

That brings me to this point. As trappers we need to get our legislature to ban wild animal rehabilitation. Man has no right taking food, nutrients and nesting material from Mother Nature or what is commonly called the Eco System in our modern times. That is unless we have studied it effects and have determined it indeed can transpose without interference. We as trappers agree that Death in Mother Nature is as important as Life itself! Sure life substantiation may seem cruel to humans, but as we trappers know Mother Nature herself is no angel, but in her cruelty she maintains life for all! .

We have a great opportunity to fire back at the Animal Rights groups by banning Wild Animal Rescues unless its an endangered species to the World, the USA or one of the 50 states. Animal Rights groups have no argument as they are always speaking how they want a strong ECO System (their name for Mother Nature). If they indeed argue, how can they say they are protecting animals when they are denying them of food. nutrients from bones or nesting materials. Not to mention they are taking away from the insect growth on carcuses which many animals need to exist.

After they are always stating WE ARE THE CRUEL ONES? But to them I say what's more cruel than starvation, depriving an animal of nutrients or not allowing young a warm place to mature ?

Animal rights people anthropomorphize wild animals.That is why they want to save the individual.They have no concept of the big picture,in other words the health of the resource as opposed to the well being of an individual animal.

Does Mother Natures CIRCLE OF LIFE include trapping and hunting by man? Some how to me, man setting seasons and limits has nothing to do with Mother Natures Circle of Life.

Larry have you figured out how to convert BTUs yet? Been to the Lair lately? LLL

I get your not happy with the double standards on everything today and you have a point on these geese. But dose it really affect you if some folks pick up a few geese and try to save them? I'm guessing directly it dose not. Making that much noise offer a non issues reminder me of how the antis behave just a little.

I personally think there is to many laws and regulations and your wanting more. Wanting to make other people's lively hoods and hobbies illegal? I guess I'm to libertarian for that.

Not to mention the incredibly bad PR it would be for trappers.

What's wrong with using the Antis tactics against them for a change. Instead of sitting back and waiting for them to attack us then padding the lawyers pockets with legal fees while we defend our heritage? Yes it does matter when a few people pick up geese. As I said they are robbing from other animals right to survival. I am not asking for more laws I am suggesting a change to existing laws on wildlife rehabilitation. Example \: why in Iowa would anyone want to rescue you coons when the population is so large? Why would anyone rescue a fawn in Iowa when our deer population has been out of control? To my point from above, why would anyone want to rescue geese in Iowa when the City of Cedar Rapids Iowa is pouring oil on eggs to limit the population. Would it not be better if all of these were left alone to nurture other creatures! All why showing the USA we as trappers and hunters care about the health of wildlife?



To answer "Does Mother Natures CIRCLE OF LIFE include trapping and hunting by man? Some how to me, man setting seasons and limits has nothing to do with Mother Natures Circle of Life."

I could not respectively disagree with you more. Here's my reasoning, Its a given and we all know that as human population increases open land is diminished. But lets look at a micro aspect. Example take public grounds. and what NM (New Mexico) is doing with trapping. You cannot trap any longer on NM public grounds because its been deemed cruel as a dog got caught! Yet its not cruel to let populations expand and death to occur from overpopulation. You see I am of the notion our public grounds have become pen free zoos. Nothing more nothing less. Every Zoo Keeper knows at some time he will have to cull the population or risk losing animals do to a shortage fo food. As trappers, hunters and fisherman we have learned from our past practices and now pay experts to monitor the populations of which they permit us to cull them all for the betterment of Mother Nature. Why because of an exponential human growth mostly!

Also what is the difference between man eating a deer or using fur for warmth than a wolf for food or a mouse for a nest? By trapping , hunting and fishing we become part of Mother Natures circle of Life and assist in its welfare not demise!

Please unless you have a contributional comment towards my post leave your personal comments to yourself. Thank you

X2 Be careful what you wish for !!!

I understand your point. I guess if you want to wallow in the mud with the pigs that's your choice. I gravitate to the high road myself. I don't think the government has a right to regulate rehabbers.

It was illegal when I bottle feed baby squirrels to young adults. The nest was in a tree I cut down. Squirrels are not endangered and infact cause problems and make trappers money to get rid of in that subdivision I was working in. Yes I could have left them for the neighborhood cats. But I took them home and my kids got the chance to learn about them. Same with chipmunks, birds with broken wings, and yes even coons thats mother had been hit.

I willingly admit I broke the law doing so and don't care. But should there be a law saying I can't?

Heck I can kill all the snappers I can catch but can't legally keep one in a tank in the house! Makes perfect since.

With what you are advocating picking up road kill would become illegal. Hate to deprive the opossum and buzzard by picking it up. There are always unintended consequence. I'm for less laws and less government control.

There are roughly 10% trappers, 10% antis, and 80% that just don't care either way. But when the news headlines start shouting that trappers made it illegal for anyone to save the lives of that cute little bunny rabbit or baby Bambi, those 80% are going to start caring real quick. And it won't be the way you think.

Why does anyone trap ants anyway?

^^^^^ This ^^^^^

Not so rough now.

Watching the show North Woods Law, it seems every program a CO is called to pick up an injured animal to take to a rehab center. They either rehab them and release them back into the wild or put them down if they're too far gone.

Good insight and a interesting way to put it. I agree that if trappers are associated it would or could be twisted when it comes to reporting. Thank you!

Perhaps an alliance with wildlife expert's would be better. That way trappers would not be inferred 100%. Perhaps we would not approach it as trappers but as concerned conservationist.

With this issue it's not about who gets the ccredit its about doing what's right Again IMHO animal rehab is truly robbing the ecosystem and in a hypocritical the way by certain groups. use it to promote themselves.
Yes , some of it is soft hearted for sure...but its also a way to argue a political advantage against hunting, trapping and fishing, by the unscrupulous antis.

After all there is are some wildlife documentaries on TV these days where the person filming does not interfere with injured or sick animals. .Instead I got the message by not interfering is they are trying to educate that man should not interfere with the the ECOSystem (Mother Natures) "Circle of Life" !

I am from the age group that we never touched a baby anything in the wild nor anything injured or sick. For the babies we were taught Mom left it there on purpose and she will be back. For the sick and injured what happens in Mother Nature may be cruel, but in her cruelty she provides la superb way of life for all of her creatures.

There was a comment by Providence Farm that picking up a road kill would be illegal. It;s like yotetrappers comment and provides good insight .and make a man think. Thank you also. I guess my response in the short time I pondered this comment I refer to my all my observations over 6 decades of roadkill between the Mississippi River and the Colorado Foothills. My observation revealed that there is nothing wrong with roadkill being left on the road or ditch. Crows, buzzards, possums, coons, skunks, fox, mink, yotes. woodpeckers, black-capped chickadees, starlings, shrews mice, and voles to name a frew have all been observed by me on the carcassess. On my line in the west a road kill deer is consumed or carried away within a day by yotes. Also near my line game officials who pick up roadkill and take them to a repository essentially are feeding the wildlife. All day long that place is teaming with animals all looking for a meal, nutrients and shelter materials. I know this and became aware of it because I used to give them my duck carcasses and they were happy to take them and make them available to the wildlife.

Thanks folks!

Larry

Embarrassed I am at the spelling.......Thanks

LOL,,just bustin on ya.My spelling is so bad,,I spent the night in a Warehouse one time.

Ok so you have no problem with road kill on the road. I for one sure like being able to pick up the deer I hit or know we're freshly hit. I also prefer to shoot the ones with a broken legs flopping around after being hit.

Guess you never picked up a road killed coon or other critter and skinned it out keeping the fur?

Antis will love your hands off approach. No management or human involvement at all. No hunting trapping or fishing allowed to inter fear with the circle of life and all.

I like your thoughtful response but am afraid like many you're just a little to focused on Your opinion on it without seeing the much larger effects.

Circle of life and all if that premature baby can't make it without basic feeding and super changes they should just let it die.

Sorry this forum lets me speak. You are on the wrong site to silence me. Your grammar boss could tell you that. Don't worry, his better half taught him about grammar. Two of my favorite jackboots on one thread. lol. I will ask you again have you figured out how to convert BTUs yet? After all you are an engineer right? Also there is no such word as contributional rocket scientist. LLL