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Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364538
09/26/21 09:27 AM
09/26/21 09:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
Foxkid i dont think its a joke. A member of the clergy harming children is especially despicable. Much like a cop who steals and sells drugs. People need to be aware those people exist and are not exactly rare.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364539
09/26/21 09:28 AM
09/26/21 09:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,673
Illinois
foxkidd44 Offline
trapper
foxkidd44  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,673
Illinois
Originally Posted by danny clifton
B andB you got it wrong. The god you describe, a torture loving sadist, makes no sense to me. I dont think it exists.

I dont desire a god that makes me a slave, I dont think that a creator described in your bible exists. It simply isnt believable.

If there is or was a creator, I dont think that creator is very concerned with the pain that life is full of. That creator is definitely not a loving father



danny,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's the consequences of free will. same as the consequences of a free society. we can never match the wisdom of the creator............although some of us try.


Stand by your principles, Stand by your guns, and victory complete and permanent is sure at last.
Abraham Lincoln
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364554
09/26/21 09:44 AM
09/26/21 09:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
The problem with that theory, Foxkidd, is that the consequences of free will don't fall only on the perpetrator.

Little Suzie goes off to school, and is hit by a car and killed. She made no choice that led to her death, unless it was the choice to go to school.

Let's say the driver was drunk. Ah-hah! Here is the choice, you say. The driver chose to drink and drive.

But your problem, in trying to show the existence of a just, loving god, is that the consequences don't fall on the drunk driver. The worst consequences fall on Suzie and her family.

Events like the above happen all the time. They're happening often enough that some of us think we can and should cross-examine God, if ever given a chance.

Barring that chance, we have to settle for grilling His followers.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364559
09/26/21 09:51 AM
09/26/21 09:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 882
pennsylvania
R
rick brocious Offline
trapper
rick brocious  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 882
pennsylvania
James didn't you ask these same Christians whom you always belittle , to pray for your granddaughter when she was ill ?

Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364565
09/26/21 10:04 AM
09/26/21 10:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,673
Illinois
foxkidd44 Offline
trapper
foxkidd44  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,673
Illinois
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Foxkid i dont think its a joke. A member of the clergy harming children is especially despicable. Much like a cop who steals and sells drugs. People need to be aware those people exist and are not exactly rare.

Danny, my point is this,,, whenever a priest walks by,, it’s automatically assumed he’s a child molester,,, yet we have tons of other professions that are equally guilty,,,, no one points as a teacher walks by and says child molester.


Stand by your principles, Stand by your guns, and victory complete and permanent is sure at last.
Abraham Lincoln
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: BandB] #7364598
09/26/21 10:50 AM
09/26/21 10:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,152
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,152
Alaska and Washington State
Originally Posted by BandB
I can't understand how someone who is constantly on here talking about freedoms that we have lost, and how people are afraid of true freedom, always wants a God that will make them a slave with no choices.

Actually, it is just the opposite of what you are suggesting.
Without God and the forgiveness and freedom offered by Jesus Christ, people are slaves to sin. God grants freedom from being a slave to ourselves.

The only people that seem to run counter to this are psychopaths. They have no conscience, they are a perfect example of what you suggest a person would be that is totally free to do as they please.
You suggest that lack of a moral compass is a desirable thing to have, because then you are free, and do not have to answer for any of your decisions.
How would you like a world where everybody lived like that?


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364607
09/26/21 11:04 AM
09/26/21 11:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 605
Central PA, God's Country
PAlltheway Offline
trapper
PAlltheway  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 605
Central PA, God's Country
Entire books have been devoted to “Why bad things happen to good people.”
No question about it, seeing undeserving people experience an early death or painful disease certainly challenges one’s faith in God. After speaking Friday with the heartbroken wife of a blameless, perfect, kind, generous, hard working, faithful friend who was just then diagnosed with a fatal brain tumor (2-3 weeks to live), I called a mutual friend to talk about the “here I go again” feeling of “Why are you doing this, God?” He said he is grappling with the same thought for the same reason.
Others here have already addressed the responses to why bad things happen to good people, so I won’t repeat them, but I will say I have witnessed so many important miracles and unexpected successes that my belief in God is rewarded every day.
Humans have free will. It is up to each of us to try to control our passions, treat others the way we ourselves want to be treated, be gentle, generous, and kind towards everyone we meet, and to appreciate what we do have. The Bible helps us achieve these goals better than any other thing. It’s not easy, and the alternative is not easy, either.

Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: James] #7364623
09/26/21 11:19 AM
09/26/21 11:19 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
trapper
yotetrapper30  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,511
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by James
The problem with that theory, Foxkidd, is that the consequences of free will don't fall only on the perpetrator.

Little Suzie goes off to school, and is hit by a car and killed. She made no choice that led to her death, unless it was the choice to go to school.

Let's say the driver was drunk. Ah-hah! Here is the choice, you say. The driver chose to drink and drive.

But your problem, in trying to show the existence of a just, loving god, is that the consequences don't fall on the drunk driver. The worst consequences fall on Suzie and her family.

Events like the above happen all the time. They're happening often enough that some of us think we can and should cross-examine God, if ever given a chance.

Barring that chance, we have to settle for grilling His followers.

Jim


Who knows, James? Just because you don't know, doesn't mean there wasn't a reason. Maybe little Suzie got hit by a drunk and killed because if she hadn't the next week she would have been snatched on her way to school and forced to spend the next 10 years as a sex slave. Or maybe little Suzie would have ended up being molested by her pastor, or teacher, and God was sparing her that. Maybe she had an undiagnosed fatal disease and He was sparing her and her family a lengthy death. And then there's the drunk. Maybe her death will end up being the thing he needed to get clean and give himself to the Lord. Most people wouldn't think sacrificing her to save him would be worth it but most people don't think like God, either. Maybe He would be viewing it as bringing two souls to Heaven instead of just one. But again, who knows? We can speculate all we want but no one is meant to know the mind of God.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364630
09/26/21 11:24 AM
09/26/21 11:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
Psychopath is an example of my view. How can a person deserve punishment if they have no conscience? They are more like an animal than a human and if they were created then the creator created them that way.


Locking them up to protect others is a punishment. Locking them up is necessary. Not really done to punish. Just something that must be done if they are not going to be executed.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364634
09/26/21 11:27 AM
09/26/21 11:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
Yep Ang, preachers been telling me that my whole life. The questions are valid. To me its proof that the god of the bible is an invention of humans.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364667
09/26/21 12:24 PM
09/26/21 12:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,424
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,424
Georgia
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Yep Ang, preachers been telling me that my whole life. The questions are valid. To me its proof that the god of the bible is an invention of humans.


Well if you are correct, and all the evidence says otherwise, that we who claim that Christ rose from the dead for the salvation of humanity are merely following an invention that requires us to love one another then I choose the delusion over your hellish proposition where you or I have zero compulsion to love much less respect the other.


[Linked Image]
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364671
09/26/21 12:31 PM
09/26/21 12:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
I have yet to see any evidence of a loving parental creator


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: waggler] #7364687
09/26/21 12:52 PM
09/26/21 12:52 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,112
alabama
BandB Offline
trapper
BandB  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,112
alabama
Originally Posted by waggler
Originally Posted by BandB
I can't understand how someone who is constantly on here talking about freedoms that we have lost, and how people are afraid of true freedom, always wants a God that will make them a slave with no choices.

Actually, it is just the opposite of what you are suggesting.
Without God and the forgiveness and freedom offered by Jesus Christ, people are slaves to sin. God grants freedom from being a slave to ourselves.

The only people that seem to run counter to this are psychopaths. They have no conscience, they are a perfect example of what you suggest a person would be that is totally free to do as they please.
You suggest that lack of a moral compass is a desirable thing to have, because then you are free, and do not have to answer for any of your decisions.
How would you like a world where everybody lived like that?


You misunderstand my point. Danny, in particular, is on numerous threads claiming people are afraid of freedom, because it sometimes leads to bad consequences. But when it comes to God, he wants Him to only allow good things, i.e. things Danny agrees with, to happen or he won't believe in Him. The problem is, he doesn't accept that true freedom is only found in Christ.

Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364694
09/26/21 01:03 PM
09/26/21 01:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
What I accept is that many people, not just Christians, need to believe something is controlling the natural world so nothing truly bad will ever happen. Everything is always for the best in the end.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364714
09/26/21 01:24 PM
09/26/21 01:24 PM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



The heart of the unregenerate have no way of knowing the illuminating power of God, so they argue over believers.
The Seed of the Woman has always been opposed by the seed(s) of the serpent (Genesis 3:15).
It is the entire biblical story.
Two sides.
One side believes and trusts in what they can't know perfectly.
The others are called deniers and say;
Surely God didn't say...
Surely God wouldn't...
Surely God isn't...
If I were God, I would...

There's not much mystery to it all, other than the heavens have revealed God's spender and some marvel at the heavens even before they ever hear the term Bible or hear the name of Jesus.

Thank you Father, Son, and Spirit for making it abundantly clear to those you have called by divine Grace.

Blessings on a Sunday y'all!
Mark

Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364724
09/26/21 01:38 PM
09/26/21 01:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 882
pennsylvania
R
rick brocious Offline
trapper
rick brocious  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 882
pennsylvania
danny , everyone is quite clear that you didn't post this to bring our attention about the child abuse of children in the clergy . Everyone is quite clear that there was no one on here trying to deflect the abuse from one religion to the other . And everyone on here knows your a God hater period . When your laying on your death bed and you know the end is near ( if you have the chance ) I guarantee you'll be talking to God then .

Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364740
09/26/21 02:00 PM
09/26/21 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,424
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,424
Georgia
Originally Posted by danny clifton
I have yet to see any evidence of a loving parental creator


You haven't honestly looked. He's right there, right here and everywhere. Literally He is in all things.


[Linked Image]
Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364751
09/26/21 02:20 PM
09/26/21 02:20 PM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



I might suggest breathing in and out and then smiling about that wonder of God's grace.
Because some won't continue in that grace after today according to God's will.

I find it fascinating that folks most often think very differently about those things that matter in their final hours.
They often confide in me they wish they'd have lived their lives much different.

Some good posts on here Tman'ers!

Blessings,
Mark

Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: James] #7364771
09/26/21 03:01 PM
09/26/21 03:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,194
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by James
See J Staton: the most interesting people, like Danny, will be going with me.

While you may be stuck with a bunch of Bible thumpers, choir singers, and speakers in tongues.

Jim

What a tough choice it would be to decide between meeting you or Moses.

Re: looks like not just catholic priests and mormons [Re: danny clifton] #7364814
09/26/21 04:01 PM
09/26/21 04:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
I've been reading these religious posts for years on Tman. Some of them are interesting--this one not so much.

Why don't the believers and non-believers just call it a truce? I have yet to see one person that has converted to the other side. In fact, a few of the spokespeople for each side are likely turning people away with their comments.

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