I'm not sure anyone's trying to "win" BC and a truce symbolizes a battle of sorts.
I can only speak for this dude when I say I don't think followers of Jesus have the kind of power it takes to change hearts,
and I don't answer to win, but more so to dialog.

Believers are given instructions as to how to engage others and we should follow Scripture where Jude writes;

And have mercy on some, who are doubting, (unbelievers)
save others, snatching them out of the fire; (believers)
and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh (false teachers)

Jude 22–23

Blessings,
Mark

^^^^^
A lot of truth to that.

No one ever talks someone into faith.

I've heard it said; " If I can talk you into faith in Jesus Christ, then someone else can talk you out of it".

All I can do is give you a reason for the Hope that I have, God does the rest of the convincing. It is then up to you to believe or to reject.

I believe your intentions but I have disagree a bit--some here are playing to win.

I started this post when I saw a news report about clergy molesting children. It was not an attempt to bash clergy or Christianity.

The hollywood crowd and the posers that pass as musicians today are mostly perverted.

The condition of mankind is to reject the father/child relationship that you speak of Danny.

That is the story of the garden of Eden, when Adam and Eve disobeyed God, and chose to define right and wrong for themselves when they chose to eat from the tree God said would destroy them if they ate from it

Their son would go on to kill his brother, further exiling themselves from God

Same story when God saved them from slavery in Egypt, reestablishing to humanity that He is the same Creator God spoke of in Genesis, only to watch Israel worship a golden statue of a cow claiming it was had rescued them.

Despite them literally just agreeing to be in a special relationship with God, to not do that very thing

And on and on the story goes

Mankind has collectively rejected God, through various scenarios, the result is always the same

It's what Moses foretold in the closing chapters of Deuteronomy


Why does God allow suffering? It's because it's what we choose

Instead of mankind ruling on Earth as God's representatives, we've subjected ourselves to the ruler of this age, the same snake in the garden that deceived Adam and Eve

So what's the point?

Why doesn't God make us robots that never do anything wrong?

The closest that has been done to that was the angels, created beings to which no doubt were also instructed similarly to do good, don't do evil

Well somehow Lucifer deceived 1/3 of the angels into not obeying God. Into rebelling. And he became the adversary, and they became demons.

Apparently they didn't trust what God had told them


And God finally sent his own son, to succeed where man had repeatedly failed


To obey to the point of death, and to not be deceived, and finally defeat the snake

The choice to redefine good and evil ourselves, to do what is right in our own eyes, leads to destruction and death

And once mankind's sins are to a point of self destruction, God will intercede to save us from ourselves

And after millennia of man's doing things his way, under Satan's influence,Satan will be taken away and mankind will be taught to live God's way

After one thousand years of Christ's rule, we will be able to compare to the prior multiple millennia of mankind's/Satan's rule


“But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5)

I understand these are all who have never been offered God's Holy Spirit, never heard of Jesus Christ, (some?) will be offered a choice

The pain of life is the lesson of the choice man had made

God has set out to repair the relationship the man had continually damaged

And in the end we will see we can trust God, and He will know who He can trust

That's more than I wanted to say, but still I take just skimmed over it. I could've posted an article, but I find personal views to be more genuine

Ecclesiastes in a song....
Enjoy

So where's the snare? The catch?

Jim

James,
No catch. No snare.

People often deny that they know what they in fact know.
I believe you reside in that camp.

That is part of the captivity of evil and the blindness it causes in humans.

Evil is important because it points empirically (we see it and we experience it) to the existence of God...
and towards the idea that this is a good world gone wrong.

Atheists and agnostics have no argument for evil other than to deny what they in fact know.

Blessings,
Mark

I don't accept the notions that humans cannot be good without God, or that evil points to the existence of God.

Good and evil exist without regard to the existence of God. People who know nothing of Abraham's God can know right from wrong, good from bad. Their societies may be godless, but will still punish bad (evil) behavior.

I don't know what you meant by this, Mark. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate:

"Atheists and agnostics have no argument for evil other than to deny what they in fact know."

Jim

Rom2:14-15 "for when the gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or excusingone another"

God has written in each mans heart what is morally right and what is morally wrong. He has given you a conscience, without that you be just an animal with no sense of right and wrong. Their is no argument for right and wrong outside of this. Without God writing his law in youre heart you would have no concept of it.

If this were true, there would be no need for lawyers

In my short 40 years on earth, I have seen what was once defined as evil called good, and once was considered as good, called evil

We are heading to the point where 'everyone did what was right in their own eyes'

(it's a refrain repeated in the book of Judges, a dark, bloody period in Israel's history)

Jim,
You might benefit greatly from reading C.S. Lewis (1898 -1963) and Alvin Plantinga's writings on evil. Lewis was, all his life an atheist, until his wife's sudden illness and death. He, an atheist, had no answers for the misery he found himself in, and his words are, "I find I have no argument for evil (his wife's illness) other than to deny what I already know which is evil exists and it comes from somewhere."

Lewis went on to become one of the greatest apologists Christianity has known. Known for his Chronicles of Narnia of course, Lewis' "Screwtape Letters" are my favorite where two demons converse about how to deceive people and turn them from "the enemy" (God). All of Lewis' writings are brilliant and candid.

What if.... God made a world where all things were simply "good" with no chance of "bad" happening? Fire is one example. Good for cooking and heat. Bad when it burns you. If you ponder deeper, you can see that the world is creatively made with things that can be either good or bad, and that human choice in these things sets a trajectory for whether they are used for their good purpose or their bad purpose. My dog is made a dog and she's my pal, very good hunter, and a family pet all in one, but my human choice could have made her an attack animal. My choice to make a dog be good or bad.
Sexual intimacy is pleasurable and good of course for...be fruitful and multiply... but humans can turn it into abuse and trauma.
This is God's creation Jim.
Full of things for our good.
And with human choice, created by God..... we humans can choose to do good or bad with them.
And we sure do. That's a FACT.
And C.S. Lewis said once he decided to take his atheists blinders off, he saw these choices virtually everywhere in everything....
and he stopped denying he didn't know what he already knew.
The existence of God is true because of the deep questions he needed answers to.
Or else nothing would really matter.

Here's a short article from the C.S. Lewis institute you might find answers in;
https://www.cslewisinstitute.org/webfm_send/636

Blessings,
Mark

as it was stated earlier...none of our dicussions on here will change anyones opinons as to who belives and who does not.........its just easier for me to explain why I do.......just look at whats before us...........that should be evidence enough for some........from the diversity of life in plants, animals,fish, insects ....to our own atmosphere.....we have built in protection from the sun ...letting in just enough to let life do its thing........clear down to the bacteria we need in our guts to help us survive.....like a fine tuned motor......if that all happened by accident,,,why do we not have other planets around our sun doing the same?? as for me........I lucked out...not only do I have the afformentioned reasons, but I have witnessed the prescence of the living god......I cannot explain it to anyone in words...and anyone whos been there ,,,knows exactly what im talking about....I sometimes wish god would reveal his prescence , the way he did to me, to others who are struggling with faith, but he is god, and he knows his business better than we do, but he has promised that in the end all will be revealed........

If you put couple kids in a room with bowls of fruit and one of candy then tell them dont eat candy. Shut the door and watch through the key hole till they eat a piece if candy. Rush into the room and spank them. Tell them for the rest of their lives how evil they are for eating that candy. Will that make you a loving responsible parent?

The thing about believers talking to unbelievers is the constant reference to tales like that. If you dont believe them you dont believe them. Repeating them over and over doesn’t make them sound any more truthful.


Trying to say a person who does not believe in the bibles creator can not know right from wrong is about as crazy as saying a talking snake is the reason little kids get cancer.

That's not the analogy Danny.

It was about choosing a path of self destruction. Of death.

God won't allow mankind to live forever in misery.
.


I feel the same way when people try to explain evolution

It's ludicrous to think earth, life, came along by happenstance

You don't believe a spirit being could take the form of a snake, but you believe all life formed from a pool of crud in the ocean

Who's crazier?






You're oblivious to what's happening in the world around you if you think everyone agrees in what is good and what is evil.

It's no coincidence that as a society rejects even the basic tenets of the Bible, the fall into to a path of self destruction

Since when has everyone agreed on right and wrong? Since when have christians agreed on right and wrong? Why do you think you know what I believe? I believe you only know what I don’t believe.

I believe we are self destructing the same way Rome did. A society that rose to dominate the world while being polytheistic . Then collapsed under widespread corruption of government and big business

A person only realizes right from wrong because of the God of the Bible.

Then why do unbelievers know right from wrong?

Jim

See my previous answer James. It is the answer. Read the word "realize" a couple times over for better noggin absorption.

How would you as an agnostic argue the consciousness of right and wrong in only humans?

Blessings,
Mark