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Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7369203
10/01/21 07:21 PM
10/01/21 07:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,758
Williamsport, Pa.
J
jk Offline OP
trapper
jk  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,758
Williamsport, Pa.
"caterwauling" That is a heck of a word, not sure if I have heard that before. Their screams (loud) are sort of similar to cats but the cats are high pitched and painful sounding. Now I have only heard the fishers twice though......jk


Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free. Whats supposed to be ain't always is.
Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7369229
10/01/21 08:00 PM
10/01/21 08:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,172
Pa.
B
Bigbrownie Offline
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Bigbrownie  Offline
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B

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,172
Pa.
Not seeing many in Butler County or Centre County.

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7369330
10/01/21 10:37 PM
10/01/21 10:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,418
fayette,al.
G
grisseldog Offline
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grisseldog  Offline
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G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,418
fayette,al.
We use to float hunt a big creek and was easy to get a two man limit-16
Now canít hardly scratch up a 1-man limit 8 in an all day float hunt

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7369435
10/02/21 06:33 AM
10/02/21 06:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,013
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
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Wright Brothers  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,013
Pa
Still wondering how to pronounce the new to me word caterwauling.

Maybe the fisher thing was part of science based Quality Squirrel Management.





Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: Wright Brothers] #7369965
10/02/21 08:31 PM
10/02/21 08:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 549
Central PA, God's Country
PAlltheway Offline
trapper
PAlltheway  Offline
trapper

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Posts: 549
Central PA, God's Country
Originally Posted by Wright Brothers
Still wondering how to pronounce the new to me word caterwauling.

Maybe the fisher thing was part of science based Quality Squirrel Management.


Pronounced catter-walling.
Good one about the squirrel management. Problem is the fishers are managing every other animal, too. They are voracious little beasts. A couple years ago the executive director of the PA Game Commission said at a public meeting that they had studied the stomachs of a bunch of fishers, and had found no Turkey meat inside. I responded ďOf course you didnít find any. The fishers ate all the turkeys a long time ago and there are hardly any left,Ē which got a good rousting jeer from the audience for the PGC folks. Who I do love. I just wish theyíd figure out why we need ten fishers per square mile when just one will eat up most of the turkeys as it is.
Maybe a little longer fisher trapping season. Or a fisher hunting season with turkey decoys.

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7370083
10/03/21 04:34 AM
10/03/21 04:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,013
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
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Pa
catter-walling,, got it.
I did notice a "few" less destructive chipmunks at my place.
Think a hog nosed snake or two is helping there.
I have nut trees, chippies come.
I'm due for more fisher pics on trail cam.
Seeing less but healthy looking squirrels.





Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: Wright Brothers] #7370113
10/03/21 06:07 AM
10/03/21 06:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,872
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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Lugnut  Offline
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SEPA
Originally Posted by jk
"caterwauling" That is a heck of a word, not sure if I have heard that before.


Originally Posted by Wright Brothers
Still wondering how to pronounce the new to me word caterwauling.


Are you guys really from PA? LOL

Having had close ties to the Deutsch and Amish communities all my life I've heard the word katerwaulen (cry like a cat) used a lot. A caterwaul is a "disagreeable howling or screeching," like that of a cat in heat." It is frequently used to describe the tongue-lashing given by an angry housewife to a lazy husband.

I've never heard a fisher caterwauling but would love to. We have them in abundance around my camp in north-western Potter. Former Tman member PCR2 caught a huge one two seasons ago.




Eh...wot?

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7370122
10/03/21 06:18 AM
10/03/21 06:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,013
Pa
W
Wright Brothers Offline
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Wright Brothers  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,013
Pa
Lug when the women did that we called it,,, something different lol.

First time I heard a bobcat I was about 10 years old,
almost jumped outta my skin.
We weren't supposed to have those here.
More plentiful now.
Hearing reports of porcupines now, always changing.





Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: 52Carl] #7370172
10/03/21 07:40 AM
10/03/21 07:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 44,128
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 44,128
Minnesota
Originally Posted by 52Carl
Carry in a tree stand and a bow with you. You will run out of ammo for the squirrels which will undoubtedly show up.

This^^^


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7370623
10/03/21 07:27 PM
10/03/21 07:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,758
Williamsport, Pa.
J
jk Offline OP
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jk  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,758
Williamsport, Pa.
PCR2 What happened to him. I did not realize that he is missing. In my time on this site a LOT of people have just gone missing never to be heard of again......jk


Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free. Whats supposed to be ain't always is.
Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7370648
10/03/21 07:48 PM
10/03/21 07:48 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 11,211
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
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yotetrapper30  Offline
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 11,211
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by jk
PCR2 What happened to him. I did not realize that he is missing. In my time on this site a LOT of people have just gone missing never to be heard of again......jk


He picked a fight with Paul one night and lost, lol.

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: yotetrapper30] #7370732
10/03/21 09:15 PM
10/03/21 09:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 549
Central PA, God's Country
PAlltheway Offline
trapper
PAlltheway  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 549
Central PA, God's Country
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
Originally Posted by jk
PCR2 What happened to him. I did not realize that he is missing. In my time on this site a LOT of people have just gone missing never to be heard of again......jk


He picked a fight with Paul one night and lost, lol.

That is a shame, because I needed to say I knew someone in Potter County, and PCR2 was it.
We are all guests here on this website, which I am confident requires a lot of time and patience to monitor and manage by its owner. This is pretty much the same on all websites that have a chat function. Some people have issues with authority, some people are their own worst enemy, and some people keep digging the hole they are in deeper and deeper. I know about all of this because I have all of these issues.
I will try to post the last couple of recordings I did of the lady fishercat when she was making her rounds here in late January. Long after fisher season had ended....

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7370980
10/04/21 09:27 AM
10/04/21 09:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,028
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
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Fisher Man  Offline
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Adirondacks, NY
I have been trapping fishers for over 50 years and I open the stomach of every one that I catch. I have never found any sign of turkey in the contents. Unfortunately fishers are getting a bad rap in some quarters by people that don't know what they are talking about. If you want to see why small game is disappearing take a good look at coyotes.

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7371051
10/04/21 10:46 AM
10/04/21 10:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 549
Central PA, God's Country
PAlltheway Offline
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PAlltheway  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 549
Central PA, God's Country
Fisher man, Iím sure you know the ADKs. Iíve hunted there for many years, and Iíve enjoyed watching a huge coal-black male fisher hunting while Iím deer and bear hunting, and Iíve briefly seen others moving through the area Iím in. Very few places where a person can experience this. Itís great wild country there, and you are fortunate to be there and to be able to afford to live there.
When a person makes such a broad claim as you have here, along with an implied insult to those you disagree with, you persuade few and alienate most of your audience.
Those of us here in Northcentral PA know this area, and we believe we know what we are seeing. We being the vast majority of hunters I have contact with. Just the basic statistics show a very high correlation between an increasing fisher population and a dramatically plummeting turkey population.
Maybe we are wrong about this correlation. But we have always had a large coyote population that coexisted with a huge turkey population. What changed everything (turkeys, squirrels, porcupines, rabbits) was the introduction and explosive population growth of fishers.
I might be persuaded to see things differently, but itís going to take a lot more than a blanket statement from a guy a hundred plus miles north of me in a different habitat with different trees etc So far I have been unpersuaded to see your same point of view by the PGC staff here. And I know I am in large company here. None of us wants to hate fishers, or demonize them. We just want some turkeys left on the landscape, and some squirrels and rabbits too. All of these things changed dramatically in a short time with the introduction of fishers.

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7371098
10/04/21 11:40 AM
10/04/21 11:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,872
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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I've always heard the talk of fisher decimating the turkey population and was always a bit skeptical.

Sort of like I am when hunters or landowners tell me that red fox are wiping out the local rabbit population. I know from reading the results of many studies that red fox primarily eat rodents, insects and plant matter in that order. Do they eat rabbits? I'm certain they do when they are lucky enough to catch one but I have serious doubts they are having any major impact on local populations.

So I was very excited to see the results when I heard that PA was conducting a fisher study and examining stomach contents of fishers.

There were 91 fishers collected between 2002 and 2014. The results were not that surprising to me when they showed that fisher do not prey heavily on turkey, only 12% had avian remains in their stomachs compared to 83% that had mammalian remains.

Here is a link to the explanation and results of that study.

Diets of fishers (Pekania pennanti) and evidence of intraspecific consumption in Pennsylvania.


Eh...wot?

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: Lugnut] #7371131
10/04/21 12:22 PM
10/04/21 12:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 549
Central PA, God's Country
PAlltheway Offline
trapper
PAlltheway  Offline
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Central PA, God's Country
Problem with this study, Lug, is itís too little too late. The fishers were just getting going by 2002. By 2014 the Northcentral turkey populations were already crashing. There were too few for the fishers to eat. 91 stomachs is not a persuasive number indicative of the whole population. It was one of the few bad studies the PGC has done.

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: Lugnut] #7371196
10/04/21 01:38 PM
10/04/21 01:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,760
Tug Hill, NY
Redknot Offline
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Tug Hill, NY
Originally Posted by Lugnut
I've always heard the talk of fisher decimating the turkey population and was always a bit skeptical.

Sort of like I am when hunters or landowners tell me that red fox are wiping out the local rabbit population. I know from reading the results of many studies that red fox primarily eat rodents, insects and plant matter in that order. Do they eat rabbits? I'm certain they do when they are lucky enough to catch one but I have serious doubts they are having any major impact on local populations.

So I was very excited to see the results when I heard that PA was conducting a fisher study and examining stomach contents of fishers.

There were 91 fishers collected between 2002 and 2014. The results were not that surprising to me when they showed that fisher do not prey heavily on turkey, only 12% had avian remains in their stomachs compared to 83% that had mammalian remains.

Here is a link to the explanation and results of that study.

Diets of fishers (Pekania pennanti) and evidence of intraspecific consumption in Pennsylvania.


Lug, I've seen that study and I wonder if the stomach contents might have shown more evidence of poults if there had been a spring/summer portion of the study. I believe just about everything in the woods wants to eat young turkeys, but this study would not show that in the results.


~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~
Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7371201
10/04/21 01:52 PM
10/04/21 01:52 PM
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Posts: 15,872
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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I can't argue with that Redknot. It's a good point and the folks conducting the study, or at least those writing the results, admit that "carcass collection was biased toward fall/winter months so we did not consider seasonal effects on diet."


Eh...wot?

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: PAlltheway] #7371206
10/04/21 01:59 PM
10/04/21 01:59 PM
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Lugnut Offline
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I do believe though that many folks consider fisher major predators of adult turkeys and that they are having a major impact on the population decline. I don't believe that and this study seems uphold my opinion.


Originally Posted by PAlltheway
Problem with this study, Lug, is itís too little too late. The fishers were just getting going by 2002. By 2014 the Northcentral turkey populations were already crashing. There were too few for the fishers to eat. 91 stomachs is not a persuasive number indicative of the whole population. It was one of the few bad studies the PGC has done.



I don't agree with all of this statement either. Mine is only an opinion but I do have some anecdotal evidence; The turkey population in my area of southeast PA has crashed as well, it started seven or eight years ago same as up north. We don't have a fisher population.


Eh...wot?

Re: Pa guys, our squirrels have disappeared [Re: jk] #7371225
10/04/21 02:13 PM
10/04/21 02:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,505
pa
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hippie Offline
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If I had to take a wild off the wall guess, I'd say they caught some disease from a chicken house/ crap spread in the fields.


Our Rabbits have RHD so the Game Comm. says.


Last edited by hippie; 10/04/21 02:15 PM.
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