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Reloaders : Bag or bipod #7372479
10/05/21 10:58 PM
10/05/21 10:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,753
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,753
Amite county Mississippi
Ok so another question for the reloaders. When doing load development do yall shoot as you would in the field ie, off of bipods or off more of a target shooting deal like a lead sled,front and rear bags ect ? I see some saying it doesn't matter ,others saying it messes with harmonics and you'll have different groups if you do development one way then use it in a different manner


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372480
10/05/21 11:04 PM
10/05/21 11:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Oregon
SpottedOwl Offline
trapper
SpottedOwl  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Oregon
I bench off a lead sled to be as solid as possible. As long as I know itís exactly where I want it, I can screw it up later off the bench. My experience it doesnít seem to matter and the bench eliminates a lot of variable. Unless the gun and barrel is tied down solid somehow I donít see how harmonics would be different, they could be but I donít see it.

What do you do?

Last edited by SpottedOwl; 10/05/21 11:05 PM.

Spend time with your kids while THEY still have time

Your life is an occasion ..... Rise to it
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372483
10/05/21 11:08 PM
10/05/21 11:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,015
Oakland, MS
Drifter Offline
trapper
Drifter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,015
Oakland, MS
lead sled here as well. Help eliminate all the variables makes more sense to me.


Experience only teaches the teachable.

Aldous Huxley









Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: SpottedOwl] #7372484
10/05/21 11:09 PM
10/05/21 11:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,753
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,753
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by SpottedOwl
I bench off a lead sled to be as solid as possible. As long as I know itís exactly where I want it, I can screw it up later off the bench. My experience it doesnít seem to matter and the bench eliminates a lot of variable. Unless the gun and barrel is tied down solid somehow I donít see how harmonics would be different, they could be but I donít see it.

What do you do?

I've been trying to do it off of my bipod because if I'm in the field I shoot off my pod sooooo but honestly I can't really shoot too well off of a bench my my pod. I noticed my zeros are different if I zero on bags then shoot on a pod though. Not by much . But I'm a lil ocd so it's enough lol. Reckon it would just make sense to do my load development on bags then rezero for the pod lol


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372490
10/05/21 11:37 PM
10/05/21 11:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Oregon
SpottedOwl Offline
trapper
SpottedOwl  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 447
Oregon
What is, not by much? Any possibility off your bipod that youíre fidgeting, flinching, breathe weird, even the slightest bit? Even subconsciously? I would lean more towards solid rest being the better zero of the two.



Owl


Spend time with your kids while THEY still have time

Your life is an occasion ..... Rise to it
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372494
10/05/21 11:42 PM
10/05/21 11:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,375
Anchorage, Alaska
J
James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,375
Anchorage, Alaska
I shoot off of sandbags.

I've heard those Lead Sleds are rough on optics. True?

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372524
10/06/21 04:36 AM
10/06/21 04:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,189
eastern WV
R
Ridge Runner1960 Offline
trapper
Ridge Runner1960  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,189
eastern WV
wolfy, preload the pod, lean into the rifle a bit and take the slack out of the pod legs.

Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Ridge Runner1960] #7372537
10/06/21 05:05 AM
10/06/21 05:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,753
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,753
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by Ridge Runner1960
wolfy, preload the pod, lean into the rifle a bit and take the slack out of the pod legs.

I actually don't have much slack in most of my bipods. I try to pre load but man they just don't have any. I did modify one by streaching the springs out so there was a good bit of slack . Had some really good shooting with that


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372540
10/06/21 05:25 AM
10/06/21 05:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,093
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Online content
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Online Content
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,093
williamsburg ks
I have a lead sled. I dont really like them. Rolled up coat on a pickup hood makes marketers cringe but works just fine. Granted if your trying to wring another 1/4 inch tighter group it wont fly but if you are fine with minute of coyote at 300 yards, works great. If I am confident I can hit a bullseye the size of a tea cup saucer at 300 yards on a windless day, I am good. Lots of people like trying to get the tightest group but I am a hunter of meat and fur. I entertain myself with shooting at times but my real goal is one accurate shot when my freezer is getting low or I spot that bobcat hiding with snow on the ground.

My 22-250 has a bipod but its usefulness quite honestly is not worth the extra weight. I leave it on but seldom shoot at a coyote using it.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372557
10/06/21 05:58 AM
10/06/21 05:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 202
Nebraska
T
Trappercass Offline
trapper
Trappercass  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 202
Nebraska
the only thing Iíve found a leadsled to be any good for is cleaning a rifle. Front and rear bags or a good bipod and rear bag is the only way to shoot serious groups as far as Iím concerned.

Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: James] #7372566
10/06/21 06:16 AM
10/06/21 06:16 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,331
Mn
N
nightlife Offline
trapper
nightlife  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,331
Mn
Originally Posted by James
I shoot off of sandbags.

I've heard those Lead Sleds are rough on optics. True?

Jim



Donít know about optics but I do know several people who have cracked wood stocks when using them





ÔŅĹEverything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks.ÔŅĹ
‚Äē Robert A. Heinlein
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372593
10/06/21 06:59 AM
10/06/21 06:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 377
Wisconsin
S
Scott__aR Offline
trapper
Scott__aR  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 377
Wisconsin
Only use sand bags of the bench.


Megapredator ... top of the food chain!
Member of WTA
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Member of NTA
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372600
10/06/21 07:12 AM
10/06/21 07:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,908
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,908
meadowview, Virginia
For load development I always shoot 5 shot groups using a front rest and rear bag on a concrete shooting bench. Every shot is fired through a chronograph. I want as many variables eliminated as possible and I want to see the group statistics. First I establish the seating depth the particular bullet/rifle combo likes using a moderate load, usually loading .005", .010, .015, .020 off the lands. Then I work up in 0.5 grain powder increments looking for groups to tighten. The smallest groups don't always have the best statistics (spread & standard deviation) but are always close to the best. I think barrel harmonics are the reason. Bad stats don't yield small groups.

Some folks work up a powder charge first and then work on seating depth. I don't use that approach because as the lands are approached pressures increase, sometimes dramatically, with an associated increase in velocity. This may be OK with moderate loads developed only for accuracy, but can be dangerous if working with hunting loads at or near maximum. Also, the pressure and velocity increase can invalidate previous test results due to changes in barrel harmonics.

Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372615
10/06/21 07:40 AM
10/06/21 07:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,212
Texas
J
jtg Offline
trapper
jtg  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,212
Texas
Prone with bags

Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372625
10/06/21 07:53 AM
10/06/21 07:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7,316
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7,316
Maine, Aroostook
Never used a sled, I use leather bags filled with birdshot. Been using them for forty years.

Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372645
10/06/21 08:08 AM
10/06/21 08:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 317
Northern Illinois
MuddyMike Offline
trapper
MuddyMike  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 317
Northern Illinois
bag or a bipod for me. i like to shoot off bipods to sight in and then i practice off the bipods as well. i dont reload so factory ammo is what i use. no point in me zeroing with a sled when i dont have one in the field to use. like danny said and ive seen many rifles zero in off a rolled up jacket and rifle across the hood. i too am a meat hunter and rarely need to shoot further than 300 yards to kill something.

Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372650
10/06/21 08:11 AM
10/06/21 08:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,352
Nevada
YamaCat Online content
trapper
YamaCat  Online Content
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,352
Nevada
Bags here. It just removes all doubt when perfecting a load.

Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372664
10/06/21 08:28 AM
10/06/21 08:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 475
SC Iowa
btomlin Offline
trapper
btomlin  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 475
SC Iowa
Bags

Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372682
10/06/21 08:53 AM
10/06/21 08:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,155
Finally run aground in TN
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,155
Finally run aground in TN
Your cheek weld may well change when shooting of a pod, compared to bags. I shoot on the bench of bags, then zero again for the bipod if the rifle gets used with one in the field or sticks if I use them. But during load development its bags every time.


I do all my own stunts ..... but never intentionally .................. Let's go Brandon
Re: Reloaders : Bag or bipod [Re: Wolfdog91] #7372693
10/06/21 08:59 AM
10/06/21 08:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,804
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Online content
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Online Content
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G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,804
Green County Wisconsin
shoot how you intend to shoot when you need to make the shot

if you always have the bipod on and when you shoot at a coyote far of you will drop the bipod then bipod

if you are more likely to carry a bag in your truck and toss it on the hood to stabilize the shot , bag

if you have a bipod and may shoot both over a pack or from the bipod shoot both and see if it changes your impact at all

if you preload the bipod you always pre-load the bipod

if you know there is a shift in your group between pod and bag you can calculate for it

this Sunday we learned how much ammo can make a difference also

first stage with AR was 218 , 329 and 405 yards

my son apparently found a box of my old 223 rounds from before I got them over a chronograph they were 2680 from a 16 inch barrel I then sped them up to about 3K

well we verified Saturday he was 2 inches high at 100 yards that should have gotten us what we needed but we verified with "new" ammo

he had a first round hit at 2 and 300 then dumped way to many rounds in the sand neatly centered under the plate at 405 low power optic he could not see the sand hits and compensate

for the match you also could not use anything but a top surface of the barricade and tank trap above the bracket that holds the timbers together so the answer is you need to get used to shooting from all sorts of items

2680 fps is about 3-4 feet lower with the same bullet and barrel at 405 than 3000fps while still hitting the plate at 300 yards it would have been about 10-11 inches low there but he couldn't see the hits only that he did hit and no spotter info could be given

2680 was crazy accurate that is why I had originally stopped there till later I realized how slow it was and that I couldn't reach 500 with it

I still need to buy a chronograph I was able to borrow one a few times

Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 10/06/21 09:33 AM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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