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Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374184
10/08/21 05:47 AM
10/08/21 05:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,844
Firth, Nebraska
jabNE Offline
trapper
jabNE  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,844
Firth, Nebraska
Man everything is up. Gas, food, clothing, you name it.


Money cannot buy you happiness, but it can buy you a trapping license and that's pretty close.
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374213
10/08/21 06:55 AM
10/08/21 06:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 242
NE KS
B
bowhunterks Offline
trapper
bowhunterks  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 242
NE KS
Are gas has been $2.85 a gal. all summer yesterday it went up .14 cents

Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374271
10/08/21 08:28 AM
10/08/21 08:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
49er please read the TITLE of this thread

GAS prices!! I never mentioned nor claimed to know why , how , or what set the price of crude. MY comments and the oil guys just supported it with cost analogy that GAS should not or ever go up 48 cents over night This price increase happened BEFORE crude went to itís highest since 2014 or whenever. If and thatís a BIG if crude prices set gas prices then the final cost of production of crude should parallel gas prices Does it ? No. Because they have and will continue to gouge the American public because they can Ever wonder why oil lobbyists paid BILLIONS to get the ceiling price on gas removed?



Just so I understand what you are saying .........let me ask a couple questions.

1. Do you think that oil producers set the price of crude oil ?
2. Do you think oil companies set the price of gasoline ?
3. What "ceiling price" on gasoline are you talking about ?
4. Should there be price controls on gasoline ?


Mean As Nails
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: hippie] #7374290
10/08/21 09:04 AM
10/08/21 09:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8,253
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8,253
Ky
Originally Posted by hippie
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Went from 2.73 to 3.21 overnight



The new price(3.21) is right on market, you should be wondering why he was at 2.73 for so long.


Market for where ? That's the question .25 miles down the road it stayed 281 until just 2 days ago Like you guys certainly want to point out supply and demand. Do you think the demand here is as great as Cincinnati? same price. As for supply there is a refinery running non stop 6 miles from my house. Ask a driver I know from there how do they know the difference in which gas they produce. He said only difference in most are the additives, That get's blended when the tankers are loaded.

Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: white17] #7374295
10/08/21 09:18 AM
10/08/21 09:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8,253
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8,253
Ky
Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
49er please read the TITLE of this thread

GAS prices!! I never mentioned nor claimed to know why , how , or what set the price of crude. MY comments and the oil guys just supported it with cost analogy that GAS should not or ever go up 48 cents over night This price increase happened BEFORE crude went to it’s highest since 2014 or whenever. If and that’s a BIG if crude prices set gas prices then the final cost of production of crude should parallel gas prices Does it ? No. Because they have and will continue to gouge the American public because they can Ever wonder why oil lobbyists paid BILLIONS to get the ceiling price on gas removed?



Just so I understand what you are saying .........let me ask a couple questions.

1. Do you think that oil producers set the price of crude oil ?
2. Do you think oil companies set the price of gasoline ?
3. What "ceiling price" on gasoline are you talking about ?
4. Should there be price controls on gasoline ?


To answer your first question YES to a certain degree. They can produce or slow down enough to impact the supply end which plays a part in setting the price .
How old are you . There used to be a maximum (ceiling price) gas companies could charge per gal. Google it THEN big oil spent BILLIONS through lobbyist to get congress to vote to remove it. But the way they got it removed was to simply stop producing gas! Major shortages and gas rationing . When Reagan lifted the ceiling price suddenly there was gas flowing from every sink hole that held it. MOM and pop refineries on every back road a tanker could travel. THEN big oil decided they didn't like that business model so BANG . Squeeze out the little guy flow money to congress again to allow the monopolizing of the industry . How were they squeezed out ? REGULATIONS were implemented that the smaller companies could not afford . Don't scream fair market for one thing and communism / Gov regulations are wrong for another.
Seen any mom and pop refineries lately ? Based on your theory that pricing makes it affordable then they should still be around. If I go to dale hollow lake from somerset I pass 6 small refineries that at one time were running around the clock. Price control in the hands of the industry producing it. Don't like the price? just turn off the faucet.

Last edited by jbyrd63; 10/08/21 09:29 AM.
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374301
10/08/21 09:26 AM
10/08/21 09:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8,253
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8,253
Ky
But back to comparing production cost from now to 2009. Gas was higher then cost where lower = more profit. Some say it was supply that pushed it that high. OK NO ONE RAN OUT so didn't loose revenue. Thus they had to be making a killing gouging consumers. Profit margins were 2.5 times higher. Or am I missing something. Sales minus cost = profits

Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374318
10/08/21 09:47 AM
10/08/21 09:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,048
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,048
williamsburg ks
Not just refineries. Regulations are putting independent stations out of business too. guy here where I live owns a small convenience store. He had it leased out for years. Guy who was leasing it let it go. so the guy that owns it was going to reopen. He can not get new permits to sell fuel. Said it is next to impossible. So the building is just sitting empty out by the interstate. Becoming an eyesore.

Big brother does like to protect the folks who pay for campaigns.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374323
10/08/21 09:57 AM
10/08/21 09:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Originally Posted by white17



Just so I understand what you are saying .........let me ask a couple questions.

1. Do you think that oil producers set the price of crude oil ?
2. Do you think oil companies set the price of gasoline ?
3. What "ceiling price" on gasoline are you talking about ?
4. Should there be price controls on gasoline ?


To answer your first question YES to a certain degree. They can produce or slow down enough to impact the supply end which plays a part in setting the price .
How old are you . There used to be a maximum (ceiling price) gas companies could charge per gal. Google it THEN big oil spent BILLIONS through lobbyist to get congress to vote to remove it. But the way they got it removed was to simply stop producing gas! Major shortages and gas rationing . When Reagan lifted the ceiling price suddenly there was gas flowing from every sink hole that held it. MOM and pop refineries on every back road a tanker could travel. THEN big oil decided they didn't like that business model so BANG . Squeeze out the little guy flow money to congress again to allow the monopolizing of the industry . How were they squeezed out ? REGULATIONS were implemented that the smaller companies could not afford . Don't scream fair market for one thing and communism / Gov regulations are wrong for another.
Seen any mom and pop refineries lately ? Based on your theory that pricing makes it affordable then they should still be around. If I go to dale hollow lake from somerset I pass 6 small refineries that at one time were running around the clock. Price control in the hands of the industry producing it. Don't like the price? just turn off the faucet.



If I remember correctly it was Carter who did away with the ceiling on gasoline prices. The reason it was done away with is because the price cap proved once again that price controls always lead to shortages and higher prices.

I agree that oil producers can and do slow production when prices drop. Why wouldn't or why shouldn't they ? Should they be forced to lose money by selling at less than their costs ? How long should government require that a company lose money ?

Are you aware that most oil companies purchase the oil they pump out of the ground ? Most oil in the world is owned by sovereign governments. Oil companies pay for that oil. The price is set by the market, not the oil companies. If the market is willing to pay $70 per barrel, how much oil do you think Exxon is going to sell at $80 ? NONE.

I'll admit that I have a hard time wrapping my head around your term of "mom & pop" refineries. I can't imagine too many couples having a spare 2 billion laying around in a shoe box to build and operate a refinery. But let's say they do. What is more efficient in terms of productivity...........many small operations or a couple of larger ones that increase scale and reduce price per unit ? Consolidation happens in every industry and is usually beneficial to the industry and the consumer.

Regulation certainly does eliminate competition. No question about that. But remember those "mom & pop" refineries still have to buy crude from somewhere........on the open market. They aren't pumping it from behind the vegetable stand by the dirt road.

But even without regulation, less efficient businesses don't survive. That is one mechanism of capitalism. Creative destruction is the means by which capital is allocated efficiently........and capital will always flow to where it earns the greatest return.

If you think the oil industry is a monopoly, then tell me why prices fluctuate so much. Do you suppose there may be different companies and speculators competing to make a buck ? If a monopoly existed, there would be no competition............by definition.


Mean As Nails
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374332
10/08/21 10:05 AM
10/08/21 10:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,488
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,488
pa
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Originally Posted by hippie



The new price(3.21) is right on market, you should be wondering why he was at 2.73 for so long.


Market for where ? That's the question .25 miles down the road it stayed 281 until just 2 days ago Like you guys certainly want to point out supply and demand. Do you think the demand here is as great as Cincinnati? same price. As for supply there is a refinery running non stop 6 miles from my house. Ask a driver I know from there how do they know the difference in which gas they produce. He said only difference in most are the additives, That get's blended when the tankers are loaded.


Your original post is only 3 days old, so both stations raised within a day of each other. And by market I mean most gas is over 3 something, just look at the prices everyone posted at the beginning of this thread.

Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: danny clifton] #7374337
10/08/21 10:21 AM
10/08/21 10:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,627
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,627
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Yet they are setting gas prices in a back door sort of way. Shutting down production and pipelines. Some up and down is to be expected, but here in KS gas is up 50%. Another dollar will be a 100% increase. I don't know what the true inflation rate is for printing all that stimulus money, but I don't think its 50%.


Up from where? Last year it went way down. Good for you! Not so good for producers. This year it went way up. How is it compared to 2019 not 2020? Last years prices were a fluke caused by the rona nonesense.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: hippie] #7374342
10/08/21 10:26 AM
10/08/21 10:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by hippie
Originally Posted by jbyrd63

Market for where ? That's the question .25 miles down the road it stayed 281 until just 2 days ago Like you guys certainly want to point out supply and demand. Do you think the demand here is as great as Cincinnati? same price. As for supply there is a refinery running non stop 6 miles from my house. Ask a driver I know from there how do they know the difference in which gas they produce. He said only difference in most are the additives, That get's blended when the tankers are loaded.


Your original post is only 3 days old, so both stations raised within a day of each other. And by market I mean most gas is over 3 something, just look at the prices everyone posted at the beginning of this thread.



As of yesterday the national average price for unleaded was $3.22


Mean As Nails
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374344
10/08/21 10:26 AM
10/08/21 10:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,048
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,048
williamsburg ks
I just checked the price of silver. When I was a kid and would mow the neighbors lawn for a dollar, gas was 22-24 cents a gallon. Looks like that silver quarter will still buy a gallon of gas here . So maybe your right dirt. Maybe it has not really gone up.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: danny clifton] #7374350
10/08/21 10:30 AM
10/08/21 10:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by danny clifton
I just checked the price of silver. When I was a kid and would mow the neighbors lawn for a dollar, gas was 22-24 cents a gallon. Looks like that silver quarter will still buy a gallon of gas here . So maybe your right dirt. Maybe it has not really gone up.



Just to illustrate your comment Danny. I couldn't find any charts that go back to when you were mowing lawns for a quarter

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/


Mean As Nails
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jabNE] #7374354
10/08/21 10:40 AM
10/08/21 10:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,627
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,627
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by jabNE
Man everything is up. Gas, food, clothing, you name it.


Not airline tickets. Don't know how they are staying in business?


Who is John Galt?
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: Dirt] #7374357
10/08/21 10:45 AM
10/08/21 10:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by jabNE
Man everything is up. Gas, food, clothing, you name it.


Not airline tickets. Don't know how they are staying in business?


True. I get at least two emails a day from Alaska Airlines wanting me to buy something NOW !!

They will be in a double bind soon if traffic stays down and fuel continues to rise


Mean As Nails
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374359
10/08/21 10:46 AM
10/08/21 10:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,048
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,048
williamsburg ks
I was mowing lawns for a dollar. gas was around a quarter. Had a one gallon metal gas can. I could fill it up for a quarter and get back a penny or three.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374360
10/08/21 10:49 AM
10/08/21 10:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,048
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,048
williamsburg ks
google says gas was thirty cents in 63. i remember it being about 35 cents in 73. So either my memory is bad or google is not always reliable.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374364
10/08/21 10:59 AM
10/08/21 10:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Online Content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 32,387
McGrath, AK
Yeah I recall buying gas for 33-35 cents in 1963.

An inflation calculator indicates that 35 cents in 1963 is equivalent to $3.13 today. A cumulative rate of inflation of 794%


Mean As Nails
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374369
10/08/21 11:12 AM
10/08/21 11:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,653
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
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G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,653
Sandhills Nebraska
2.89 in Hannibal MO today.


I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???
Re: Gas skyrockets ! [Re: jbyrd63] #7374384
10/08/21 11:38 AM
10/08/21 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 10,275
Greene County,Virginia
R
run Offline
trapper
run  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 10,275
Greene County,Virginia
Still $3.09 for regular in Harrisonburg,,VA.


wanna be goat farmer.
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