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Bee guys or anyone else #7376295
10/10/21 09:18 PM
10/10/21 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,722
Missouri
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WhiteTrash 88 Offline OP
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WhiteTrash 88  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2020
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Missouri
What is the difference in raw honey vs. regular refined honey. Baught a jar label raw honey at our trapper rondevoo last month and just ran out. Looking to get some more, but donít know if they can sell it in stores.

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376305
10/10/21 09:30 PM
10/10/21 09:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 51
Alberta
M
Moose maniac Offline
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Posts: 51
Alberta
Raw honey is right out of the hive and unpasteurized

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376312
10/10/21 09:37 PM
10/10/21 09:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,290
Fingerlakes New York
robert.d12 Offline
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robert.d12  Offline
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Fingerlakes New York
You can order it online if you canít find it in stores


The beauty of the second amendment is it wont be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson
Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376332
10/10/21 09:55 PM
10/10/21 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,052
M.T.V. Alaska
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yukonjeff Offline
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M.T.V. Alaska
The refined honey is heated killing all the good stuff, also filters all the pollen out of it. Then they mix it with Chinese honey (sugar syrup)

Your best bet is to buy from a beekeeper there are plenty on Ebay or Craigslist, farmers markets , even some on Amazon if you look good.. I am sure their are beekeepers near you.

You can always tell real honey it will harden if sitting in a cool place over a period of time, (Varies ). The heated ones in the store don't set up.

You might want to consider a few hives if you like honey. You can get buckets of honey if you do it right, and its a lot of fun.

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376423
10/11/21 12:35 AM
10/11/21 12:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,665
Georgia
warrior Online content
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warrior  Online Content
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Georgia
Raw is merely strained to remove the large particulate from the extraction process.

Processed is initially strained then heated to both flow more readily through the bottling equipment and to liquefy any sugar crystals to retard granulation and prolong shelf life. Processed is also often passed through micro filtration to remove even the smallest of pollen grains that may serve as a template for granulation.

Processed is essentially denatured honey and minus the pollens is vulnerable to adulteration or false labeling by unscrupulous packers. Without its essential pollens there is no way to determine origin or source.

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376424
10/11/21 12:38 AM
10/11/21 12:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,665
Georgia
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Georgia
Nothing essentially "wrong" per se with processed IF the heating is kept below damaging levels and microfiltration avoided. However, considering well known and documented fraudulent trans shipping of banned honeys from places like China it is best to avoid processed honeys and to buy from known sources.

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376425
10/11/21 12:40 AM
10/11/21 12:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,665
Georgia
warrior Online content
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Georgia
The biggest "loophole" is that the USDA does not have a legal definition of just what constitutes honey.

Other issues are that one cannot legally produce Organic honey anywhere within the US as the label Organic has rather strict production standards. The main one in this case is the the producer must have control of all property where the product is produced and certify that no non organic registered chemicals have been used on said property. Since bees are free range and each colony can range up to five miles this means the beekeeper must control the 8000 plus acres each colony can cover.

YET, our USDA recognizes Organic labels from other countries that are far less stringent.

Last edited by warrior; 10/11/21 12:47 AM.
Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376426
10/11/21 12:49 AM
10/11/21 12:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,665
Georgia
warrior Online content
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warrior  Online Content
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Georgia
BTW, raw is not a regulated term so buyer beware.

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376469
10/11/21 05:55 AM
10/11/21 05:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,349
western mn
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bucksnbears Offline
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bucksnbears  Offline
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western mn
Good friend of mine has bees.
He does his honey the right way.
Alot more work but the product is incredible.
I can let him know iffn you want.


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376525
10/11/21 07:50 AM
10/11/21 07:50 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 11,164
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Online content
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yotetrapper30  Online Content
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Oakland, MS
I've been seeing a lot of raw, local honey showing up in grocery stores lately. I'd be surprised if yours didn't carry any. (Maybe not Walmart, but most other grocery stores should).

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: bucksnbears] #7376531
10/11/21 07:55 AM
10/11/21 07:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,722
Missouri
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WhiteTrash 88 Offline OP
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WhiteTrash 88  Offline OP
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Missouri
Took advice and looked up bee keepers close to me. Found a place that sells raw honey and what looks like everything needed to take care of beeís. Wouldnít mind putting out a couple hives, but donít know if Iíve got the time to properly take care of them.

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376545
10/11/21 08:13 AM
10/11/21 08:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,706
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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TreedaBlackdog Offline
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B61-12 vicinity, MO
Tommy and I were the only ones from Missouri with honey if you got it at the Missouri convention. I can ship it. If you are near Iowa, Tommy is closer and could likely ship it also.. All my honey is raw and only filtered with largest stainless screen to get large parts out. Much pollen is in my honey and I never heat it.

We pull two times on our honey - spring and fall due to seasonal pollen being in different honey. I believe God has given us many natural things like honey, garlic, and plants that help our bodies in which we have lost much knowledge.

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: TreedaBlackdog] #7376598
10/11/21 09:37 AM
10/11/21 09:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,722
Missouri
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WhiteTrash 88 Offline OP
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WhiteTrash 88  Offline OP
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Missouri
Originally Posted by TreedaBlackdog
Tommy and I were the only ones from Missouri with honey if you got it at the Missouri convention. I can ship it. If you are near Iowa, Tommy is closer and could likely ship it also.. All my honey is raw and only filtered with largest stainless screen to get large parts out. Much pollen is in my honey and I never heat it.

We pull two times on our honey - spring and fall due to seasonal pollen being in different honey. I believe God has given us many natural things like honey, garlic, and plants that help our bodies in which we have lost much knowledge.

The pint glass jar I bought was 10$ and tended to by a young man around 12 years old. Raw honey sticker on white lid

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376613
10/11/21 09:59 AM
10/11/21 09:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,989
Oakland, MS
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Oakland, MS
TreedaBlackdog has what you are looking for. The guidelines they put on the honey industry makes it all but impossible to sell through a store. Find a health food store that has local honey is another way to find a local producer. Might check with local law enforcement on who they call to pick up swarms as well. The more local on honey source the better for allergies.


Experience only teaches the teachable.

Aldous Huxley









Life member NTA , and GA Trappers assoc .
Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: warrior] #7376629
10/11/21 10:23 AM
10/11/21 10:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,191
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted by warrior
The biggest "loophole" is that the USDA does not have a legal definition of just what constitutes honey.

Other issues are that one cannot legally produce Organic honey anywhere within the US as the label Organic has rather strict production standards. The main one in this case is the the producer must have control of all property where the product is produced and certify that no non organic registered chemicals have been used on said property. Since bees are free range and each colony can range up to five miles this means the beekeeper must control the 8000 plus acres each colony can cover.

YET, our USDA recognizes Organic labels from other countries that are far less stringent.

Just a note on the last sentence there. The same rules that exist here are also in place for honey produced in other countries. Certifying agencies must not only be accredited by our USDA but are routinely audited to make sure of compliance. As I understand it, Brazil and China are the main countries that can comply with the regs. Domestically I think there is an apiary up in Washington state on an island that is certified for organic honey.

Last edited by beaverpeeler; 10/11/21 10:24 AM.

"Hyar's the beaver. Whar's the likker?"
Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: beaverpeeler] #7376666
10/11/21 11:12 AM
10/11/21 11:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,722
Missouri
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WhiteTrash 88 Offline OP
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WhiteTrash 88  Offline OP
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Missouri
Black dog, I looked at sticker on lid and believe it was your honey. Hickory Hollow. Good stuff!! You interested in barter for pecans??

Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: warrior] #7376670
10/11/21 11:17 AM
10/11/21 11:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,333
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Trapper7 Offline
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MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted by warrior
Raw is merely strained to remove the large particulate from the extraction process.

Processed is initially strained then heated to both flow more readily through the bottling equipment and to liquefy any sugar crystals to retard granulation and prolong shelf life. Processed is also often passed through micro filtration to remove even the smallest of pollen grains that may serve as a template for granulation.

Processed is essentially denatured honey and minus the pollens is vulnerable to adulteration or false labeling by unscrupulous packers. Without its essential pollens there is no way to determine origin or source.

I agree with everything you've said. I can taste the difference between raw and processed. For me, processed tasted like it's been watered down. I much prefer raw.


Some mornings I wake up grouchy. Some mornings I let her sleep.
Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376722
10/11/21 12:39 PM
10/11/21 12:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,558
South metro, MN
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Calvin Offline
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South metro, MN
There is no legal definition of "Honey" in the USA. Or none that is enforceable. There are no honey police walking around. Lots of corn syrup in bottles "called" Honey. Is there ramifications for this? NOPE.

Sams club locally sells "RAW, Unfiltered, Organic honey" for less than the commercial guys deliver it to the big plant buyers in 55 gallon drums. Figure that one out.

There is also a huge taste difference in even REAL honey. I sell honey to a gal who's parents are bee keepers about 60 miles away. She doesn't like their honey but likes mine. I tried real honey from a similar location and it tasted awful to me (in comparison).

It is illegal to buy honey from China however. That said, many countries that used to produce almost no honey NOW produce a lot of honey. It's the honey shell game.

If you don't know the bee keeper, you don't know what's in the bottle. Find a real bee keeper and ask him some questions. Also taste the honey alone....Not by dumping it on a bagel, like most people seem to do.


B urn
L oot
M urder
Re: Bee guys or anyone else [Re: WhiteTrash 88] #7376805
10/11/21 02:22 PM
10/11/21 02:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,706
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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TreedaBlackdog Offline
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B61-12 vicinity, MO
will send you a pm

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