You guys that know about bitcoin what do you think about them? Worth it or not?

MARA and RIOT also follow the price of Bitcoin, guess I have no looked into the ETF. What are the Tickers?

Have no idea was just reading about them starting and was asking what people thought .

Are you talking about the bitcoin futures ETF's ?

There are three currently if I remember correctly.

BITO, XBTF, and BTF

Your thoughts on them?

Not for me. The fact that they are based on futures makes it an expensive proposition because of the way the fund has to continually buy more long-dated contracts as short dated contracts expire. So you are always paying more for contracts dated out 6 months while near term contracts are selling for less. The condition is called "contango" and it exists in most all futures markets.

The fund ends up experiencing what is called "negative roll yield".....AKA losing money.

Probably more than you wanted to know

I think the only value is that you don't have to hold the BTC yourself and you can short sell . Oh and can trade on the traditional exchanges instead of the having to open accounts on the cryptoexchanges.

I think the ETFs opens Bitcoin up to more games being played

Futures exchanges are pretty strictly regulated. The one possible advantage that I can see is the ability to hedge a position in another bitcoin product.

All in all, I don't see much for the small investor to like. The biggest beneficiaries will be the ETF's parent company

Thanks

Just buy bitcoin

How is it that Bitcoin stocks continue to sky rocket high, but the companies that mine them not so much?

Folks just built a brand new bitcoin mining company within my county called the Whinstone facility; supposedly it got bought by RIOT. Makes me sick really, all this good farmland and ranchland is being subdivided for houses and big companies. This is in the fastest growing part of our state. They say that this new facility uses enough electricity to power 150,000 homes. I really don't know how they can operate. How is it possible to for a commodity to be worth what Bitcoin is and the industries that mine it, less than $30 a share?

I hear ya on the loss of open space. On the other hand, which would you rather see..........a large facility like that or 150,000 new homes. I know which I would prefer.........neither !

To address your question about the share price of RIOT. This is the first year out of the last 5 that they have made a profit. But the real culprit is that they keep issuing new shares that dilute previous shareholder value. They only earned 42 cents per share in the trailing 12 months. I know that 27-30 bucks a share seems cheap but it is actually very expensive relative to their earnings.

What he said lol.

Just because the price is high doesn't mean they can mine it at a low enough cost to make a profit.

Thank you White and Steven! They keep putting in the local paper that they will only use electricity when everybody is asleep, or when energy demands are not up. With all the new houses popping up and land being subdivided, I just don't know how they can operate. (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman), our county don't even have 150,000 homes, YET!

We are getting both at the same time! My property taxes went up 10K/acre this year!

If you look at RIOT's market cap, its went from roughly 160M last october to 2.6'ish Billion today. Think the high was 4'ish Billion back in February

Energy prices, mining efficiency, reward rate is going to factor against the profit. Also remember, bitcoin just before "15 days to slow the spread" last year was trading in the 5-7k and had been bumping in that range for 2 years since the spike in the winter of 17-18 where it went to 20k.

Good point Sniper.

OUCH !

I don't understand it Sniper, what does that mean?

Every so often, you can look up the details if you wish to learn more, the amount of bitcoin that is awarded to the miners is reduced. That's why its going to take a long time before the last few million worth of coins are going to be mined. The more the reward rate goes down, the less the profit is going to be assuming BTC prices and energy prices stay the same.