Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: ]
#7423739
12/06/21 02:58 PM
12/06/21 02:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,712 Wisconsin
Scott__aR
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You are absolutely right, the tax dollars should go to the parents and they should be allowed to educate their children where they want, public, private or home schooling.
I agree with Bernie, those choosing to put their kids in a private school, religious school, or home school should not pay taxes that fund the public school. Our tax system is a joke X2
Megapredator ... top of the food chain! Member of WTA Member of MTPCA Member of NTA
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: white17]
#7423776
12/06/21 04:18 PM
12/06/21 04:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,941 2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County
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Blaine; James.
From the article.
“Religious schools can and do advance their own religion to the exclusion of all others, discriminate in both the teachers they employ and the students they admit, and teach religious views inimical to what is taught in public schools."
My question. If in fact some 'religious' schools teach views that are "inimical" to what is taught is public school...............How is that illegal or how does it harm a pubic school ?
Couldn't the religious schools turn that same argument around ? Public schools teach views that are inimical to those taught in sectarian schools.
What if certain religious teachings overlap with secular goals ?
Yes, there is overlap and yes there is conflict. What examples are you thinking of in your questions?
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: Posco]
#7423790
12/06/21 04:42 PM
12/06/21 04:42 PM
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Mark June
Unregistered
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Mark June
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Make no mistake. The power of the purse has been the biggest hammer by which our American government has implemented initiatives. How the government does what it does, can't be argued. That's perfectly clear. They dangle $$$$ and the other party dances to the tune. The question for our society is.... what tune are they playing?
The tentacles of the state run deeper than we could imagine because the money amount is off the charts high.
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: Posco]
#7423838
12/06/21 05:44 PM
12/06/21 05:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,497 Southern NJ
maintenanceguy
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There is no separation of church and state. Only a Constitutional amendment that says the government can't choose one religion as the "official" one and can't prevent you from practicing the one you want to practice.
I think public dollars allocated for education should be portable and parents should be able to choose the school of their choice including religious and private schools. The government needs some competition. The private sector always does a better job at a lower cost than government does.
That money shouldn't go for the operation of churches so it gets to be a little fuzzy with religious schools. Maybe, some accounting demarcation needs to be in place to prevent school money from going into the operational expenses of churches, only to the operational expenses of the private schools - even if they are religious schools.
-Ryan
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: Posco]
#7423845
12/06/21 05:54 PM
12/06/21 05:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
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Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Some religious schools teach Creationism as science. That should be unacceptable for education programs deserving of public funding.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: Blaine County]
#7423849
12/06/21 06:02 PM
12/06/21 06:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,953 Indiana
Providence Farm
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Taxes to support schools are theoretically levied so we will have an educated society. Here it's property taxes. The percentage of my property taxes earmarked for schools wouldn't come close to covering tuition at a private school. Sorry kids--public school for you. Fortunately, ours is pretty good.
The solution is to improve public schools. They need improving.
This case is nonetheless interesting. I wonder how folks would feel if the Plaintiff was a Muslim wanting money for tuition at the madrasa. If they win it would include that group as well would it not? We homeschool and i don't want their money or the strings that would come with it.
Last edited by Providence Farm; 12/06/21 06:05 PM.
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: James]
#7423856
12/06/21 06:14 PM
12/06/21 06:14 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,580 Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
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Some religious schools teach Creationism as science. That should be unacceptable for education programs deserving of public funding.
Jim Why? Because YOU don't believe it?
~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: James]
#7423893
12/06/21 06:55 PM
12/06/21 06:55 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,119 alabama
BandB
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Some religious schools teach Creationism as science. That should be unacceptable for education programs deserving of public funding.
Jim Some public schools teach men can have babies as science. That should be unacceptable for education programs deserving of public funding.
Last edited by BandB; 12/06/21 06:56 PM.
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: Posco]
#7423901
12/06/21 07:10 PM
12/06/21 07:10 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,626 Flint, Michigan
bhugo
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Public funding for public schools is more vote. If you have an issue with your local public school you can change it. You can run for school board, volunteer, or pull your kids and send them somewhere else on your dime. I think getting involved is more important than pulling them out.
I don’t want tax money going with kids to schools that have no curriculum oversight. Creationism isn’t taught in public school science classes because it has no scientific evidence. It’s a purely religious belief. Just like men having babies isn’t taught either as it’s silly. You can always find a jerk in every bunch. Teachers are no different for sure but most I know are pretty stand up folks. Don’t let a few ruin it for the bunch. Education starts with parents. Your kids won’t fall for craziness if you raise them right. Focusing on your local school is important for the whole community. Get involved.
Happy winter all!
Member MTPCA, FTA and NTA
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: Posco]
#7423914
12/06/21 07:28 PM
12/06/21 07:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 5,214 Crivitz WI
Sprung & Rusty
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Hypothetical situation. We all live in the same town and we all pay taxes. I'd we are all paying taxes, why should some qualify for the money and some don't just based on where we send our kids to school?
No Jab.
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#7423915
12/06/21 07:29 PM
12/06/21 07:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Some religious schools teach Creationism as science. That should be unacceptable for education programs deserving of public funding.
Jim Why? Because YOU don't believe it? No, but because there's a big, envious, competitive world out there. We have to educate our young people in science, not pseudo-science or religion, in order for our graduates to compete. Creationism belongs in religious instruction, not science class. Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: Posco]
#7423917
12/06/21 07:32 PM
12/06/21 07:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 5,214 Crivitz WI
Sprung & Rusty
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James, private schools do teach science too.
No Jab.
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: Posco]
#7423925
12/06/21 07:39 PM
12/06/21 07:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
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Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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My daughter went to a religious Christian school. I know what they teach.
They told her--in biology class, no less--that evolution was false.
If they're teaching creationism, what about the Japanese Shinto belief that a god and goddess created the earth?
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: James]
#7423934
12/06/21 07:48 PM
12/06/21 07:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 5,214 Crivitz WI
Sprung & Rusty
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My daughter went to a religious Christian school. I know what they teach.
They told her--in biology class, no less--that evolution was false.
If they're teaching creationism, what about the Japanese Shinto belief that a god and goddess created the earth?
Jim I went to a private school. A catholic one and I'm not even catholic. My biology and advanced biology teacher was a nun. We were taught about evolution in that class. I guess all religious schools are not the same.
No Jab.
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: BandB]
#7424185
12/06/21 11:29 PM
12/06/21 11:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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If you don't think kids in some public school systems are being taught that "men" can have babies, you are sadly sheltered. Why don't you enlighten us with proof? Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: bhugo]
#7424186
12/06/21 11:29 PM
12/06/21 11:29 PM
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Mark June
Unregistered
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Mark June
Unregistered
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Creationism isn’t taught in public school science classes because it has no scientific evidence. It’s a purely religious belief. First of all, various philosophers like Oppenheimer and Whitehead have written authoritatively on the subject that Judea-Christianity provided the worldview that gave birth to modern science. Ancient cultures of Egypt, Greek, Chinese, Persia and others had advanced cultures but their polytheism and lack of interest in science was never sustained over centuries as it has been for thousands of years with Christianity >>>> and thus knowledge of a Creator spawned the framework for modern science. Creationism, the belief in Creation by an Intelligent Being has been embraced by religious AND non-religious people alike, as researchers learn more. The vastness of 15 B lightyears at one end down to the now discovered "quark," has led respected secular researchers to submit this 7 point "Problems with Theories of Natural Selection," at recent science gatherings. 1. An infinite statistical probability that it occurred. 2. Intellegibility of the Universe: the universe seems designed for comprehension 3. 2d Law of Thermodynamics: In a closed system, everything returns to the minimal level of complexity and activity. 4. Complete lack of Transitional Evidence - specie to specie 5. Irreducible Biological Complexities: there appear to be thousands of complex biological systems now discovered, that could not have evolved due to necessity for mutually interlocking system reliance. One can't evolve without the other 6. DNA Information Coding: Stephen Meyer's "Signature in the Cell" has assessed the impossibility of DNA coding mutation evolving to current levels now discovered. 7. Human Uniqueness: reason and thought are exclusive to one species only, including capacities for love, music and other activities not of an evolutionary basis Darwinism has lost its shine and Darwin's "Black Box" has been announced but not answered by the major evolutionists like Richard Dawkins, etc..... "What do we do when the empirical evidence AND materialistic philosophy are going in different directions?" This is a question to Dawkins at a national science symposia (most all secularist) and he did not comment. Darwinism, like the ever growing environmental "science" is more thesis and philosophy than anything. As a scientist myself, I abhor what science has become..... shut up and sit down meetings. Blessings, Mark
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education
[Re: Posco]
#7424188
12/06/21 11:35 PM
12/06/21 11:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Mark, are you in favor of teaching creationism in schools?
If so, which creation myth should be taught? The Shinto one?
Your argument against evolution--which I don't accept, btw--does not lead to the conclusion that the Christian creation story is the true one. If evolution is a completely inaccurate theory--which it's not--the Christian belief is no more or less true because of it.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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