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Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424229
12/06/21 11:24 PM
12/06/21 11:24 PM
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Posts: 16,424
Anchorage, Alaska
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James Offline
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Anchorage, Alaska
I'm not arguing against the existence of a Creator. But if there is a Creator, the evidence shows that He used evolution as the method for creating the myriad of species that have existed on earth.

I don't understand why some Christians work so hard at denying evolution.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: James] #7424230
12/06/21 11:25 PM
12/06/21 11:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
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Texas
Mark June Offline
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Originally Posted by James
No matter whether you like it or not, your ancestry includes monkey-like species from about thirty million years ago and chimpanzee-like animals from eight million years ago. Chimps and humans have nearly identical DNA, btw.

When your Creator was busy creating the myriad of species (99 percent of which are now extinct), did he run out of ideas for the DNA to include?

Never mind the monkeys; the recent DNA evidence shows that our ancestors included sponges.

Jim


I don't hold to that faith.
But I do embrace the freedom for all to place faith where they want to.

Again I ask, why teach where humans come from in school?




Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
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Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424233
12/06/21 11:27 PM
12/06/21 11:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,424
Anchorage, Alaska
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James Offline
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Because evolution is part of science, and as you should know, an essential underpinning for modern biology.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: James] #7424236
12/06/21 11:31 PM
12/06/21 11:31 PM
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Posts: 6,480
Texas
Mark June Offline
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Originally Posted by James
Because evolution is part of science, and as you should know, an essential underpinning for modern biology.

Jim

[video:youtube]https://evolutionnews.org/2020/10/l...nd-religion-as-alternative-explanations/[/video]



There has been very loud and prominent voices, some of whom are Dawkins country-mates that you might enjoy James. Lennox as a mathematician from Oxford is only one example.



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Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424239
12/06/21 11:32 PM
12/06/21 11:32 PM
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Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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James there are other scenarios that you aren't considering, and the "creation scientists" who aren't really scientists, are missing other possibilities as well.

I don't know if it is true, but I have heard that us humans also share 85% of the DNA of beef cattle. Why should it surprise anyone that all primates (including humans) share very similar DNA. However, there is a huge difference between humans and chimps. We are created in God's image. Not His physical image (we share that with chimps) but we share in His spiritual image. We are three dimensional (body, consciousness, and spirit) animals are two dimensional (body and consciousness).


"I'm not skilled to understand"
Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: James] #7424240
12/06/21 11:35 PM
12/06/21 11:35 PM
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Idaho Falls, ID
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Idaho Falls, ID
Originally Posted by James
I'm not arguing against the existence of a Creator. But if there is a Creator, the evidence shows that He used evolution as the method for creating the myriad of species that have existed on earth.

I don't understand why some Christians work so hard at denying evolution.

Jim


This goes back to a question I asked a number of months ago in another thread. If God created man in his own image, he canít look like the modern human since there was an evolution of the way the first humans looked like thousands of years ago and they were not pretty.

Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424243
12/06/21 11:38 PM
12/06/21 11:38 PM
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Posts: 6,480
Texas
Mark June Offline
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Mark June  Offline
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Texas
Image does not mean physical likeness.


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Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424246
12/06/21 11:47 PM
12/06/21 11:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,683
Nevada
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nvwrangler Offline
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Nevada
Great debate but the whole issue being presented to the court is there is not a public school available but the state won't allow the free choice of private schools that are available.

As for the debate teach it all, in a fair open unbiased way. Was another story out today where a liberal teacher in a current affairs type of class got fired for answering questions. Now i don't agree with how he was teaching ie one sided arguments but it was an elective and every student should have been given a letter at the start of the class for parents to read and sign saying this class will cover lots of topics from both sides and just about any current issue could be covered. I would have enjoyed a class to actually learn something about different religions not what to believe but what and how they believe and came to be.

Personally i think until today's students can actually pass grade level reading, writing and arithmetic we should hold off on the rest of the subjects.

For those of you that say taxes should not go to private or religious schools, i expect full support that my taxes shouldn't be wasted on sports, music or art classes.

Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: nvwrangler] #7424255
12/07/21 12:03 AM
12/07/21 12:03 AM
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Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
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Originally Posted by nvwrangler


Personally i think until today's students can actually pass grade level reading, writing and arithmetic we should hold off on the rest of the subjects.

For those of you that say taxes should not go to private or religious schools, i expect full support that my taxes shouldn't be wasted on sports, music or art classes.


Totally different topic, but great point. I find it ludicrous that some schools have graduation rates of less than 50% and those that do graduate can barely spell let alone put together a cohesive sentence, and yet those same schools offer arts, music and sports classes. I don't think any student should be eligible for sports, music, or art unless they're maintaining at least a B average. Classes like that should be an earned reward, not a requirement.

Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424261
12/07/21 12:22 AM
12/07/21 12:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,683
Nevada
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nvwrangler Offline
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Nevada
Yotetrapper,
I think its all tied together as those that can't stand the thought of tax dollars being spent at a religious school and them teaching their beliefs, i can't stand the thought of my tax dollars being spent to promote values that i don't agree with or the opinions of the ultra liberal left being forced down students throats. School choice should be for everyone there fore creating competition even among public scools to get students. I have actually had school administrators tell me its about dollars and funding not about education. Its a broken system. I would have driven my kids to any school in town and i did when it became available just so they could be part of FFA. As i thought it would give them more then drama or video game production that was offered at the local school. There is only 2 schools that even offer a small engine or auto class here.
Again i appreciate your comment

Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424264
12/07/21 12:27 AM
12/07/21 12:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 6,480
Texas
Mark June Offline
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Texas
The three R's are long gone and they ain't coming back.


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Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424311
12/07/21 05:56 AM
12/07/21 05:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,628
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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i would like see parents choose a school and where the tax dollars go. competition is a good thing. kids will make their own choices. usually thats to follow in the faith their parents teach them.

we dont know the origin of life. people just choose a belief anyway


i worry more about the lack of history and civics, the idea being taught that the men who created this country were evil and nothing they did was good. they are being taught that the indians would have been better off left in the stone age without livestock and africans left on their continent without the wheel.

i would choose a school that taught the truth as we know it. the origin of life is a mystery and will be for awhile yet. nobody is perfect and we learn as we go. with great freedom comes great responsibility, including the responsibility to care for yourself and your family. people deserve to be equal under the law


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424337
12/07/21 06:50 AM
12/07/21 06:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,424
Anchorage, Alaska
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James Offline
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As an aside, and to give ourselves a collective pat on the back, I'd like to say how much I enjoy civil, intelligent discussions like this one.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: yotetrapper30] #7424339
12/07/21 06:52 AM
12/07/21 06:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,424
Anchorage, Alaska
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James Offline
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Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
Originally Posted by nvwrangler


Personally i think until today's students can actually pass grade level reading, writing and arithmetic we should hold off on the rest of the subjects.

For those of you that say taxes should not go to private or religious schools, i expect full support that my taxes shouldn't be wasted on sports, music or art classes.


Totally different topic, but great point. I find it ludicrous that some schools have graduation rates of less than 50% and those that do graduate can barely spell let alone put together a cohesive sentence, and yet those same schools offer arts, music and sports classes. I don't think any student should be eligible for sports, music, or art unless they're maintaining at least a B average. Classes like that should be an earned reward, not a requirement.


Come now. You'd deprive Alabama of at least half its recruits.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: rvsask] #7424415
12/07/21 08:29 AM
12/07/21 08:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 7,480
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline OP
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Originally Posted by rvsask
James is right, we share way more DNA with a chimp than a lion shares with your house cat.

We share about 90% of our genetic code with with house cats, 40-60% with a banana. You and I share 99.9%. Where was the leap made?

Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: James] #7424451
12/07/21 09:25 AM
12/07/21 09:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,212
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Online content
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Originally Posted by James
Because evolution is part of science, and as you should know, an essential underpinning for modern biology.

Jim


If you sat through junior high and high school science classes in a Christian school it would be a shocking eye-opener for you. You'd be left wondering why you had never heard about all this stuff before, and why is it being hidden from the mainstream. It would undermine everything you think you know. Probably wouldn't change your mind, because that would be way toooo scary for you.

What's being taught in public schools today is not science, it is the religion of neo-Darwinism. And it has just as much or more basis in faith than what's being taught in Christian schools, it's just not faith in the same things.

Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424511
12/07/21 11:04 AM
12/07/21 11:04 AM
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Texas
Mark June Offline
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Texas
Neo-Darwinism on the way, as the world is, to the religion of climate.
You see, the running away from truth to false truth, continues.
Kill unborn humans.... save unborn owls.
Peter Sanger's philosophy emanates from Darwin and so his Neo-Darwinism of "animal rights" (it's how PETA started) affects trappers,
although who would know because we're not taught any of this in school.
Do trappers realize we are vehemently opposed by Peter Sanger's philosophy built on evolutionary theory from Darwin? PETA is cloaked in this philosophy.
Or that Hitler was a devout Darwinist?
Oh the list is long of those who have used the evolutionary banner to puke their ilk and sprout their seedlings.

Danny is correct. The liberalists (philosophically) have gained control, and have had it now for a century, and are leading people towards things which are not scientific in fact, just a religion of a philosophy.
But who cares, right?
Kids are placed in 8-3 classrooms.
Mommies and daddies can live for the weekend.
And all is headed to where Carl Trueman, in his newer book, The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self, outlines;
".... Freud sees cultures as defined by that which they forbid. specifically those sexual activities and relationships they prohibit. From this perspective, then, the triumph of the erotic, with its comprehensive rejection of traditional sexual codes, marks the death of traditional cutlure and the advent of the anticulture.... it embodies the death of the 1st and 2nd worlds, built on sacred order, and the rise of a 3rd world, built on rejection of any sacred order whatsoever. It is not a 3rd world build on the 1st or 2nd world: they repudiate them and demolish them."

Sound like what we see in our nation and around the world?
Yep.

The progressives have announced a full-scale, unapologetic attack on the moral framework that binds us as humans. We believers say that emanates not from us.... but from God.
Atheists, with no answers to the big questions of life, such as why are we here or how did we get here, deem a God obsolete and they teach our children and grandchildren the faith of today: immorality and how to rebuke any authority: God, parents, nation, police, teachers.... all of it. As Trueman well states.... they "repudiate us and aim to demolish us."

Evil has no limits, so we are told.

Oh, and James, most orthodox Christians don't discount science.
I personally am "labeled" as an "Integrationist" meaning: I integrate the authority of science and all it has marvelously discovered - with Scripture (which doesn't tell us everything ) which is the higher authority because God created science and scientists.

Blessings,
Mark


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Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424551
12/07/21 12:23 PM
12/07/21 12:23 PM
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minnesota
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gman Offline
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My daughter went to a religious Christian school. I know what they teach.

They told her--in biology class, no less--that evolution was false.


And just how do you know it is not false?

Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: yotetrapper30] #7424813
12/07/21 05:50 PM
12/07/21 05:50 PM
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Wisconsin
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Scott__aR Offline
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Wisconsin
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
I went to public school and both the big bang and creationism were covered in Biology... I believe it was 9th grade.

James, why would a Christian school teach Shintoism? I wouldn't expect a Shinto school to teach Christianity. You're just being silly. I would have no problem with a person of the Shinto faith using their tax allotment to send their kids to a Shinto based school if that's what they believe in.


Not wanting to implying any disagreement yt, rather the opposite!

I went to private school, elementary and high school; taught the three R's and religion and science. In high school was taught evolution, biology, chemistry, physics and world religions in addition to history, civics, art, music and my faith. What that taught me was not be afraid to ask the why or why not questions. To be independent, to seek my own answers, to develop my own thoughts based on the available evidence and to be able to reevaluate as new information becomes available and be able to say my thinking was previously in error based on new information. And most importantly to accept that mine is not the only view in the world.

Somewhere along the line people have loss that ability. Its easier to accept what is spoon fed by education, political, government and the media systems. No opposing view points allowed! Micro views based on written words and whomever or whatever interprets them and can promote them the loudest. Society is lossing its' ability to accept the we are all different. We are becoming a society of "it's my way or the highway". Unfortunately, being unique, there are way too many of the 'my ways'.

Economic bondage drives what is now considered acceptable to the masses. So I ask, why should public schools be the only institutions financed by tax dollars? Why should state universities receive tax dollars. Both private and public education are regulated to the same curriculum standards. If private schools offer additional views how is that not beneficial to the individual. To those that offer the argument that MY tax dollars shouldn't pay for religion, read the previous two sentences over again. If you're still of your opinion, you have that right, and I have and will continue to defend that right; but I then ask you this, why should individuals that don't believe as you, support any institutional system that doesn't support their beliefs? What is good for the goose, should also be good for the gander.

Just my thoughts, maybe they may cause more questions than answers or maybe a few will
have a moment of pause. Maybe read what our US constitution says word for word?


Last edited by Scott__aR; 12/07/21 06:11 PM.

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Re: Separation of Church and State...education [Re: Posco] #7424817
12/07/21 06:03 PM
12/07/21 06:03 PM
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Posts: 3,321
Oklahoma
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I am Catholic--kind of lapsed, but trending towards going back. I am in the process of reading the Bible cover to cover. I studied science in college and deal with it most days.

If a child in 2021 learns creationism as written in the Bible in lieu of science, that child will be greatly under-educated. The Bible is not a science book.


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