Charles Dobbins wrote about studying fox burying food. He said they never urinated when they buried it, but would when it was dug up. He stopped using urine at dirtholes and the catch improved. Does anyone know of any studies like this on coyote or saw their catch improve by not using urine?

I haven’t seen any studies but someone else might chime in. I use urine at all my dirt holes. Interested in what the boss has to say!

X2

When I first started out in the 70's I was taught to use urine. Somewhere along the way I stopped using it and I never really noticed a big difference. I don't think it hurts anything but I also don't believe it's necessary.

The only reason I don't use urine at dh sets is, with the high number of deer around here, they will do a dance all over your sets.

When I used urine my coyote catch went down and my non target catch went up!

What do you do about the urine at a dirt hole you can’t control?

I have a trail camera setup watching a dirthole. I have numerous videos of fox coming to the dirt hole just to pee on it and leave. It started out by the fox being drawn to the bait, once they figured out they couldn't get the bait they just came in to pee. I never caught a fox at that setup, mainly because the trap placement is further back in hopes of catching a yote. One thing I did learn about a dirt hole , is fox dont stick around long. They smell the bait, look around, and leave in under 30 seconds, both red and grey fox.

If my memory recalls correctly, last year about this time someone related a quote from a renowned coyote trapper- "if you don't use urine, you don't want to catch many coyotes!"

So many deer where I trap if I use urine I have to reset every other day

Perhaps it’s part location?

As Danny pointed out on another thread most guys that don't know how good of an attractant urine is have never had good urine. But most people miss that.
I'd be finding different lure or bait. Though I do applaud you for running a camera and learning. There are baits and lures that will get more of a response.

Most red fox I catch empty their bladders at the catch site, I can smell it. And very few have full bladders when I check them back in the shed. It could be the extra urine or maybe just the eye appeal of a nice catch circle but those locations produce well. I guess it could just be the location too although I always make at least two, sometimes three and occasionally four sets close together. One set always out-produces the others.

I've always used a good quality lure and red fox urine. I never use any type of bait at my canine sets.

Well gents I can catch a coyote at least the dumb ones.
I do use coyote urine in January- may , because they are more interactive then imo.
I use fox urine in the fall or fur season let's say. But not much .
Some swear by it some swear at it.
My theory is this coyote urine from a adult coyote unless high competition areas pups been getting there butts kicked by older coyotes and once there away from there family they get a little timid around a spot that smell like like coyote buried a tid bit. But older coyotes at the same time are have less fear at a set. Age and sex of the animal has some varing degree on this subject imo. But the old adage goes never say never and always is not always
Red

That's why you place the urine about 3 or 4 feet from the set.

I'd be finding different lure or bait. Though I do applaud you for running a camera and learning. There are baits and lures that will get more of a response. [/quote]

I compiled some videos of the dirt hole set for everyone to see. I dont believe the bait I'm using is the issue, perhaps it is. Im using a brand new jar of Mark Junes, widowmaker for bait. About a week later I added some Mark Junes, fox frenzy for a lure. I'm targeting coyotes so again, my trap placement is further back and I'm rather surprised a fox hasn't stepped on the trap. Although, tracks in the snow show many near misses. The videos are in order by date. At first the fox will stick its nose down the hole. As time goes on, the interest in bait appears to have faded, even though it would be freshened up. Now this set appears to be more of a scent marker than a food source. I realize there are more baits and lures than stars in the sky but I'm open to suggestions. However, had the trap placement been positioned for fox to start with, I would have connected. The way I see it now, anytime a fox wants to come mark this spot, I happy. Sooner or later a coyote will come thru despite not having many in my area. I agree, I have learned some fox behavior from watching my many videos, I have more but only posted a few. Thanks for looking.

It appears your hole is too big. He doesn’t have to work the set to learn what is in it. If he wants it he just mashes his face in the hole and vacuums it right out. Shouldn’t be able to stick his head in the hole that far. JMO

Me also, urine at every set, no bait just lure

The hole may appear larger than it is when the fox sticks its head down, Its only about 2" and tapers from there, plus theirs at least 4" of frost anything would have to dig thru to reach the prize at the bottom.

Hole size shouldn't be a factor. In fact I like a ground hog den size for my hole sets. It's all about what's In the the hole and trap placement.