Wilderness Trapping and Living


No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum


~Dobbins' Catalog~

ATS
(Please support Ted's Fur Shed, our sponsor for the Wilderness Page)


Alaska Trappers Association

Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451640
01/05/22 04:48 PM
01/05/22 04:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 36,153
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Online content OP
trapper
Boco  Online Content OP
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 36,153
james bay frontierOnt.
Great video.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451702
01/05/22 06:36 PM
01/05/22 06:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,759
Idaho, Lemhi County
G
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"
Gulo  Offline
"On The Other Hand"
G

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,759
Idaho, Lemhi County
Great video. Thanks for posting that.

Following most of the comments above, in the Interior of Alaska and here in Idaho, "fat" marten have been uncommon, and were usually taken near a big wolverine bait or near a winterkill/wolfkill moose or caribou. In southeast Alaska, the fat ones were much more common (Baranof or Chichagof Islands) and I thought they were obese because of winterkill (beachkill) Sitka blacktails.

As white17 mentioned, marten are able to catabolize (put on the fat) very quickly if the appropriate food is available. Likewise, they metabolize those fat reserves very quickly (hours). I once experimented with this phenomenon, although my science wasn't perfect, and my sample size was relatively poor. I had a trapline that I alternated footholds on leaning poles and 120s in boxes. It was an early winter in the interior when and where food (voles) was very abundant. I don't have the data in front of me, but this is the gist of what I found. A total of 32 marten were taken. With one exception, they were dead when I collected them. None of them would I consider "fat". I skinned each animal. Then, the fat (both the inguinal fat on the carcasses and the internal, omental, fat) was surgically removed and weighed, then the carcass was weighed. The percentage of fat was from about 2% to well over 5% (if my memory is intact). Those animals taken in footholds had, as you might imagine, significantly less percentage of body fat than those animals taken in body grip traps. My theory was that the body-grip-captures died immediately and reflected what fat reserves they had when they encountered the trap. On the other hand, those animals taken in footholds undoubtedly "fought" the trap for some unknown period of time before they expired, expending tremendous energy in doing so, thus metabolizing their reserves, and were significantly leaner. It made perfect sense to me, but I was astounded that marten are apparently able to metabolize fat reserves in such a short time (minutes or hours rather than days).

One of you out there figure out how marten can metabolize fat so quickly, then formulate a pill that humans can take to speed up the metabolism similar to marten, and in a couple months, you'll be a bazillionaire marketed to about 75% of Americans.

Jack

Last edited by Gulo; 01/05/22 06:45 PM.

Read a book...

Poetic Injustice:Ramblings from Alaska
The Last Hunt
Wild Life:The Evolution and Misadventures of a Naturalist
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451775
01/05/22 08:18 PM
01/05/22 08:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 36,153
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Online content OP
trapper
Boco  Online Content OP
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 36,153
james bay frontierOnt.
Thanks for the info Gulo.

I caught this one a few years back as an incidental in a lynx snare cubby-he had a snare on him,but on the ground he was like a dog tied up in the yard.There was a half a big skinned beaver carcass in the cubby which he had been helping himself to

[Linked Image]
.
This is what he looked like under the hide.

[Linked Image]

i remember opening him up-gut full of meat-no hair.
Only fat marten that year.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451795
01/05/22 08:43 PM
01/05/22 08:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 469
Labrador, Canada
C
crosspatch Offline
trapper
crosspatch  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 469
Labrador, Canada
Instructive for 2 reasons: marten, like all mustelids, go nuts in a snare and they do not choke down because they have necks like lead pipes. They just beat themselves out like one caught in a foot trap on the ground. That marten had sense enough to stay put and eat and eat and eat some more. And pack on fat.

Last edited by crosspatch; 01/05/22 09:13 PM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451854
01/05/22 09:37 PM
01/05/22 09:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 36,153
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Online content OP
trapper
Boco  Online Content OP
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 36,153
james bay frontierOnt.
I seem to get one every year in a lynx snare.That is the only one that stayed on the ground,all the others were hung up over a branch and dead.Once their front feet are off the ground they are done like any other animal in a snare.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451866
01/05/22 09:51 PM
01/05/22 09:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
Thanks Jack ! Here's another question to chew on.

Since we don't have mountain ash ( that I am aware of) I would guess that our marten don't make much use of berries. I have seen a couple of early November marten that had a few blueberries and leaves in their gut.. By November I would think that photoperiod is so short that photosynthesis has stopped or almost stopped. If that is true, it seems like sugars and starches would accumulate in the plant rather than going into plant growth.

If those are eaten by marten, would the sugars & starches turn to fats or would they be used as energy to digest proteins ? What affect would that have on metabolic rates ?


As far as "fighting" a trap when a food source is available...........I have this tale.

Late winter and I had taken a couple beaver for wolverine bait. I hung one about three feet off the ground on a big spruce and dropped the guts out. The next morning there were marten tracks all around the tree. I Went out and set a number zero LS right next to the gut pile. I spent a lot of time peeking through the crack in the door to see what happened.

Finally I see him coming up the hill and he goes right to the beaver and starts chewing. Then he went around the tree, and stepped into the trap.....................NOTHING. As I watched he sort of looked down at his foot and you could see his thoughts..." OH Yeah. Something on my foot"........then he went back to chewing on the beaver. No reaction at all. I was sort of like a kid in a high chair. A little restricted in movement but no distress as long as he had that beaver.

When I stepped out to collect him...........different story. Now he's not happy and I got the usual vocalizing and tooth display.


Your challenge to come up with a way to promote human weight loss is really simple.

Take that marten carcass and gut it thoroughly. Boil for about 6 days and add some garlic and Krusteaz pancake mix to thicken the broth. I guarantee you will lose all the weight you want............maybe even a couple of teeth. At least that's what I have heard.



Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452159
01/06/22 08:55 AM
01/06/22 08:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 469
Labrador, Canada
C
crosspatch Offline
trapper
crosspatch  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 469
Labrador, Canada
White just sent you a link to Western Mountain Ash (Sorbus scopulina) occurring in Alaska. You maybe calling it something else like we call it dogberry here? Almost no one here knows the "book" name mountain ash. Seems there are about 6 species across North America and common. All basically the same with the clumps of red berries. Tough tree. On our treeline north of here the last 2 trees you will find are mountain ash and poplar.

Interesting observation on the trapped marten and plenty food available.

Last edited by crosspatch; 01/06/22 08:56 AM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452247
01/06/22 10:46 AM
01/06/22 10:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
Thanks Crosspatch ! That plant is completely foreign to me. But I'll be the first to admit I don't spend any to me at all observing plant life. On the other hand, I don't know how I could miss something that distinctive.

Does anyone else recognize this plant ?


Mountain Ash

Last edited by white17; 01/06/22 10:48 AM.

Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452262
01/06/22 11:00 AM
01/06/22 11:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,907
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Online content
"American Honey"
Sharon  Online Content
"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,907
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
I do !!

I have two kinds . They both grow into large tree like shrubs. They can be pruned to one large trunk like a true tree.

One kind has red leaves in fall, with the matching red berries. The other has yellow or apricot pastel leaves with red berries. I like them both, but the ones with the yellow/pastel leaves make those red berry clusters just pop.

Birds love them . Especially the ruffed grouse . I have purposely planted them wherever I have lived to attract them.

Neat observations, on this thread. Especially the energy expended in a trap or snare, with bait or not at hand.

On the other hand .....I also love the observations of marten and wolverine when trapped, the behaviour is always fascinating for me as an artist always looking for action shots to study.


Parasites...inside or out...not so much ...ugh....

Jack, as always, I love learning of marten ....so much to learn from such a small wiry varmint . I believe I like them in art more than all the varieties of fox.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: white17] #7452280
01/06/22 11:17 AM
01/06/22 11:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,345
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,345
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by white17
Thanks Crosspatch ! That plant is completely foreign to me. But I'll be the first to admit I don't spend any to me at all observing plant life. On the other hand, I don't know how I could miss something that distinctive.

Does anyone else recognize this plant ?


Mountain Ash


I think it is here. Tough to run over with the Bravo. Seems to hang out with the devil's club. Not real common.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452286
01/06/22 11:23 AM
01/06/22 11:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
Thanks Dirt. No Devil's Club here either................at least I am not aware of it


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452433
01/06/22 01:40 PM
01/06/22 01:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
A
alaska viking Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
alaska viking  Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
A

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
It is pretty common, here. I have several in my back yard.
They put out the white clusters in spring, and are very fragrant, and smell just like fresh-cut grapefruit!
Mid-summer the "flowers" form into tight clusters of bright red berries.
The birds feast on them quickly, (a matter of a week, or so), in early September. I assume the berries reach an optimal stage for consumption, then.


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452490
01/06/22 02:37 PM
01/06/22 02:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
I have to wonder if it's more prevalent in marine environments or closer to marine environments ?

Just spoke with a forester here and he said he isn't familiar with it in this area of the state at all


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452497
01/06/22 02:45 PM
01/06/22 02:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,060
AK
bfisch Offline
trapper
bfisch  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,060
AK
Piggy backing off the story that white shared about the marten in the trap eating the beaver. . .

I once caught a fisher in a dirt hole set for fox right outside my house. The critter had not been caught for long maybe 20 minutes. It didn't move much until I got fairly close. I planned to release him and wanted to see if he would accept a piece of meat while I figured out how best to do that. I tossed him a chicken neck from about 5 feet away. He instantly ignored me and when to chewing on the neck. When he was done I let him go.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452507
01/06/22 03:01 PM
01/06/22 03:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
I have seen pix of a friend of mine hand feeding a marten while it stands on back feet with its fronts against his knee. " Will work for food"


Back to the mountain ash . Here's a map I found that indicates distribution in AK

[Linked Image]


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452519
01/06/22 03:16 PM
01/06/22 03:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
A
alaska viking Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
alaska viking  Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
A

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
This is very interesting. I knew marten in this area foraged blueberries, (have seen lots of purple scat), but when I was doing stomachs looking for worms, I don't recall finding berries of any flavor. Lots of rodent parts, red meat, (some presumably from my baits), and fur/hair, but no vegetation.
And LOTS of "fish worms"!


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: alaska viking] #7452533
01/06/22 03:25 PM
01/06/22 03:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,907
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Online content
"American Honey"
Sharon  Online Content
"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,907
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Originally Posted by alaska viking
This is very interesting. I knew marten in this area foraged blueberries, (have seen lots of purple scat), but when I was doing stomachs looking for worms, I don't recall finding berries of any flavor. Lots of rodent parts, red meat, (some presumably from my baits), and fur/hair, but no vegetation.
And LOTS of "fish worms"!



UGH ......

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452546
01/06/22 03:44 PM
01/06/22 03:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
In one stomach I found a piece of quartz about the size of a pea and in another, I found a piece of blue tarp !


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452571
01/06/22 04:05 PM
01/06/22 04:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
A
alaska viking Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
alaska viking  Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
A

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
No sign of the chocolate chip cookie?


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452584
01/06/22 04:21 PM
01/06/22 04:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
Not one iota !!


Mean As Nails
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1