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Fat Marten. #7447962
01/01/22 05:16 PM
01/01/22 05:16 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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james bay frontierOnt.
Uncommon for marten to carry that much fat.
Looks like they are feeding on grouse-high population of grouse.Some hair in the gut too-looked to be flying squirrel,but not definitive.No shortage of flyers in certain areas.
Juvenile female.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448012
01/01/22 05:44 PM
01/01/22 05:44 PM
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Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Yeah I have seen a few like that. Especially if they have been hanging around a kill.

From the evidence I would agree about the grouse diet.


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448246
01/01/22 08:43 PM
01/01/22 08:43 PM
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Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Labrador, Canada
I don't know but around here people say marten fat like that when they have been hitting the berries xtra hard when meat food scarce. Carbs make you fat. Same idea about fat fox too.


Last edited by crosspatch; 01/01/22 08:44 PM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448255
01/01/22 08:52 PM
01/01/22 08:52 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Thats why I opened his gut-wanted to see if he was eating on a kill(moose) or beaver from one of my bait dump.
besides the fat his whole intestinal tract was full.It was not caught near a baitpile,and I normally catch all marten that visit a baitpile at the baitpile in a nearby box.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448373
01/01/22 10:26 PM
01/01/22 10:26 PM
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Posts: 469
Labrador, Canada
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Should say I don't mean hitting the berries now as might be hard but in the fall and they then just pack on the fat is the thought on it. Can not prove or disprove. People talk about marten being round like stove pipes - the kind of 4" stove pipes you use in a wall tent.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448388
01/01/22 10:41 PM
01/01/22 10:41 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Yea,Frank, I guess they can put on the fat on a diet of berries,but what I understand about marten is they need to eat steady especially in the cold.They have a high metabolism.They will burn up stored fat quickly.I think they need a steady supply of feed to maintain any fat they accumulate.
There was a lot of fat inside the body cavity on that Marten too.When I seen it was a female I was a bit bummed figured it was an adult,but when I looked at the skull,It looked to be a juvenile.I confirmed that with a look at the fallopian tubes-very thin and threadlike.

Last edited by Boco; 01/01/22 10:43 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448445
01/02/22 12:21 AM
01/02/22 12:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
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juneau, alaska
The marten I have taken with body fat have almost always been making a living off my bait piles, or wolverine cubbies.
Doesn't seem to take long for them to put on fat, and probably not long to burn it off.


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448478
01/02/22 01:20 AM
01/02/22 01:20 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Do you open them up to check AV?Whenever I get an abnormally fat animal I always open it up to see what i can identify.Pure meat with no hair indicates to me that they are living on a pile of skinned carcasses.Voles are easy to identify from the tiny bone fragments,etc.
I was not really surprised when I found this one was eating grouse-we have been polluted with grouse-spruce and ruffed for at least 6 or 7 years now.
Probably not their preferred food,I think once marten get on the grouse they take them when they roost at night.I know marten will take grouse scraps readily as bait in the fall as long as the weather isnt too cold,and they can smell it.When it gets very cold grouse scrap is a poor bait.
I dont use grouse scrap in baitpiles(dont have enough of it for that),but do use it in boxes if I am trapping marten in the fall.
I have caught marten living in jackpot baitpiles that were very fat.It is a given they will wind up in a trap,they dont go far from a large bait,often living in a hole right in the baitpile.

Last edited by Boco; 01/02/22 01:24 AM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448754
01/02/22 12:04 PM
01/02/22 12:04 PM
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juneau, alaska
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alaska viking Offline
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juneau, alaska
I did stomach exams for a number of years, mostly looking for parasitic worms.


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448840
01/02/22 01:18 PM
01/02/22 01:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,623
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
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Caught a few fatties over the years. Never looked into what they were eating. Mostly a foothold user so tummies were mostly empty when I collected the animal.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7448882
01/02/22 01:55 PM
01/02/22 01:55 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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I think it is more usual to find marten like that caught in body grip type traps. In a foot hold they can burn up fat like that in 24 hours........according to the literature I have read. As Mike points out most foot caught marten will be empty and as Boco mentions they need to keep eating to maintain the status quo due to high metabolic rate. Somewhere I have read that they need to eat the equivalent of 2-3voles per 24 hrs just to maintain what they have.


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7449474
01/03/22 03:40 AM
01/03/22 03:40 AM
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Posts: 656
Interior Alaska
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30/06 Offline
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Interior Alaska
Never caught one anywhere near that fat. The biggest, fattest male we ever caught though, was in Late December and stuffed with shriveled blueberries. Belilse 120.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7449743
01/03/22 10:54 AM
01/03/22 10:54 AM
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Manitoba
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Northof50 Offline
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The importance of individual weighing each marten that I have found. Once you find the zone most of the marten are in that you are trapping, then over-forming them on the board is less of a problem.
Boco once that is off the board ; what did it pin out to at the base of the tail?

notice key words ; such as stretching were omitted

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7449934
01/03/22 03:31 PM
01/03/22 03:31 PM
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Montana
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That was keeping it's wrinkle full


Let me sugar coat this
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Northof50] #7450065
01/03/22 06:26 PM
01/03/22 06:26 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Originally Posted by Northof50
The importance of individual weighing each marten that I have found. Once you find the zone most of the marten are in that you are trapping, then over-forming them on the board is less of a problem.
Boco once that is off the board ; what did it pin out to at the base of the tail?

notice key words ; such as stretching were omitted


Typical juvenile female size wise.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7450565
01/04/22 12:27 PM
01/04/22 12:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
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Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Of course always think of berries as a before snow item. Just remembered seeing a vid. from NFLD, taken mid November this past year, and a marten was hanging UPSIDE DOWN going at the dogberries in a dogberry tree (mountain ash). Maybe another piece of the puzzle with marten getting at winter dogberries. Every dogberry tree in Labrador, and I hear NewFoundLanD, is buried with dogberries this year. Nil last year. There is another Q.: how it is all in sync over such a broad area.

Anyone mind to PM me an e mail address and I can forward the e mail I was sent with the marten in the dogberry tree.

Last edited by crosspatch; 01/04/22 07:13 PM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7450715
01/04/22 03:59 PM
01/04/22 03:59 PM
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Manitoba
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Unfortunately around here the Fire blight has wreck havoc on the mountain ash trees that surround the lakes killing most of them locally. We have two species of mountain ash trees.
Highbush cranberries were all consumed by 10 October by them and the grouse.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451067
01/04/22 10:30 PM
01/04/22 10:30 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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Crosspatch sent this video. I hope the link works.

Seems to work OK



Marten in Tree

Last edited by white17; 01/04/22 10:32 PM.

Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451275
01/05/22 08:43 AM
01/05/22 08:43 AM
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Posts: 469
Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Labrador, Canada
Thanks for doing the IT White. Yes it does work. Took about a minute to download on my computer but there is the marten hanging upside down eating berries out a dogberry/mountain ash tree. Vid. was taken in Newfoundland in mid November. Outstanding the agility of those animals in a tree.

Last edited by crosspatch; 01/05/22 08:43 AM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451482
01/05/22 12:33 PM
01/05/22 12:33 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 480
Anchorage, Alaska
broncoformudv Offline
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Anchorage, Alaska
That is one fat marten, never had any with any sort of fat on them. Really enjoyed the video crosspatch.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451640
01/05/22 04:48 PM
01/05/22 04:48 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Great video.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451702
01/05/22 06:36 PM
01/05/22 06:36 PM
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Idaho, Lemhi County
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Gulo Offline
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Great video. Thanks for posting that.

Following most of the comments above, in the Interior of Alaska and here in Idaho, "fat" marten have been uncommon, and were usually taken near a big wolverine bait or near a winterkill/wolfkill moose or caribou. In southeast Alaska, the fat ones were much more common (Baranof or Chichagof Islands) and I thought they were obese because of winterkill (beachkill) Sitka blacktails.

As white17 mentioned, marten are able to catabolize (put on the fat) very quickly if the appropriate food is available. Likewise, they metabolize those fat reserves very quickly (hours). I once experimented with this phenomenon, although my science wasn't perfect, and my sample size was relatively poor. I had a trapline that I alternated footholds on leaning poles and 120s in boxes. It was an early winter in the interior when and where food (voles) was very abundant. I don't have the data in front of me, but this is the gist of what I found. A total of 32 marten were taken. With one exception, they were dead when I collected them. None of them would I consider "fat". I skinned each animal. Then, the fat (both the inguinal fat on the carcasses and the internal, omental, fat) was surgically removed and weighed, then the carcass was weighed. The percentage of fat was from about 2% to well over 5% (if my memory is intact). Those animals taken in footholds had, as you might imagine, significantly less percentage of body fat than those animals taken in body grip traps. My theory was that the body-grip-captures died immediately and reflected what fat reserves they had when they encountered the trap. On the other hand, those animals taken in footholds undoubtedly "fought" the trap for some unknown period of time before they expired, expending tremendous energy in doing so, thus metabolizing their reserves, and were significantly leaner. It made perfect sense to me, but I was astounded that marten are apparently able to metabolize fat reserves in such a short time (minutes or hours rather than days).

One of you out there figure out how marten can metabolize fat so quickly, then formulate a pill that humans can take to speed up the metabolism similar to marten, and in a couple months, you'll be a bazillionaire marketed to about 75% of Americans.

Jack

Last edited by Gulo; 01/05/22 06:45 PM.

Read a book...

Poetic Injustice:Ramblings from Alaska
The Last Hunt
Wild Life:The Evolution and Misadventures of a Naturalist
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451775
01/05/22 08:18 PM
01/05/22 08:18 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Thanks for the info Gulo.

I caught this one a few years back as an incidental in a lynx snare cubby-he had a snare on him,but on the ground he was like a dog tied up in the yard.There was a half a big skinned beaver carcass in the cubby which he had been helping himself to

[Linked Image]
.
This is what he looked like under the hide.

[Linked Image]

i remember opening him up-gut full of meat-no hair.
Only fat marten that year.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451795
01/05/22 08:43 PM
01/05/22 08:43 PM
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Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Instructive for 2 reasons: marten, like all mustelids, go nuts in a snare and they do not choke down because they have necks like lead pipes. They just beat themselves out like one caught in a foot trap on the ground. That marten had sense enough to stay put and eat and eat and eat some more. And pack on fat.

Last edited by crosspatch; 01/05/22 09:13 PM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451854
01/05/22 09:37 PM
01/05/22 09:37 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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I seem to get one every year in a lynx snare.That is the only one that stayed on the ground,all the others were hung up over a branch and dead.Once their front feet are off the ground they are done like any other animal in a snare.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7451866
01/05/22 09:51 PM
01/05/22 09:51 PM
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Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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Thanks Jack ! Here's another question to chew on.

Since we don't have mountain ash ( that I am aware of) I would guess that our marten don't make much use of berries. I have seen a couple of early November marten that had a few blueberries and leaves in their gut.. By November I would think that photoperiod is so short that photosynthesis has stopped or almost stopped. If that is true, it seems like sugars and starches would accumulate in the plant rather than going into plant growth.

If those are eaten by marten, would the sugars & starches turn to fats or would they be used as energy to digest proteins ? What affect would that have on metabolic rates ?


As far as "fighting" a trap when a food source is available...........I have this tale.

Late winter and I had taken a couple beaver for wolverine bait. I hung one about three feet off the ground on a big spruce and dropped the guts out. The next morning there were marten tracks all around the tree. I Went out and set a number zero LS right next to the gut pile. I spent a lot of time peeking through the crack in the door to see what happened.

Finally I see him coming up the hill and he goes right to the beaver and starts chewing. Then he went around the tree, and stepped into the trap.....................NOTHING. As I watched he sort of looked down at his foot and you could see his thoughts..." OH Yeah. Something on my foot"........then he went back to chewing on the beaver. No reaction at all. I was sort of like a kid in a high chair. A little restricted in movement but no distress as long as he had that beaver.

When I stepped out to collect him...........different story. Now he's not happy and I got the usual vocalizing and tooth display.


Your challenge to come up with a way to promote human weight loss is really simple.

Take that marten carcass and gut it thoroughly. Boil for about 6 days and add some garlic and Krusteaz pancake mix to thicken the broth. I guarantee you will lose all the weight you want............maybe even a couple of teeth. At least that's what I have heard.



Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452159
01/06/22 08:55 AM
01/06/22 08:55 AM
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Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Labrador, Canada
White just sent you a link to Western Mountain Ash (Sorbus scopulina) occurring in Alaska. You maybe calling it something else like we call it dogberry here? Almost no one here knows the "book" name mountain ash. Seems there are about 6 species across North America and common. All basically the same with the clumps of red berries. Tough tree. On our treeline north of here the last 2 trees you will find are mountain ash and poplar.

Interesting observation on the trapped marten and plenty food available.

Last edited by crosspatch; 01/06/22 08:56 AM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452247
01/06/22 10:46 AM
01/06/22 10:46 AM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Thanks Crosspatch ! That plant is completely foreign to me. But I'll be the first to admit I don't spend any to me at all observing plant life. On the other hand, I don't know how I could miss something that distinctive.

Does anyone else recognize this plant ?


Mountain Ash

Last edited by white17; 01/06/22 10:48 AM.

Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452262
01/06/22 11:00 AM
01/06/22 11:00 AM
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Posts: 8,907
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
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I do !!

I have two kinds . They both grow into large tree like shrubs. They can be pruned to one large trunk like a true tree.

One kind has red leaves in fall, with the matching red berries. The other has yellow or apricot pastel leaves with red berries. I like them both, but the ones with the yellow/pastel leaves make those red berry clusters just pop.

Birds love them . Especially the ruffed grouse . I have purposely planted them wherever I have lived to attract them.

Neat observations, on this thread. Especially the energy expended in a trap or snare, with bait or not at hand.

On the other hand .....I also love the observations of marten and wolverine when trapped, the behaviour is always fascinating for me as an artist always looking for action shots to study.


Parasites...inside or out...not so much ...ugh....

Jack, as always, I love learning of marten ....so much to learn from such a small wiry varmint . I believe I like them in art more than all the varieties of fox.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: white17] #7452280
01/06/22 11:17 AM
01/06/22 11:17 AM
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Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Originally Posted by white17
Thanks Crosspatch ! That plant is completely foreign to me. But I'll be the first to admit I don't spend any to me at all observing plant life. On the other hand, I don't know how I could miss something that distinctive.

Does anyone else recognize this plant ?


Mountain Ash


I think it is here. Tough to run over with the Bravo. Seems to hang out with the devil's club. Not real common.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452286
01/06/22 11:23 AM
01/06/22 11:23 AM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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Thanks Dirt. No Devil's Club here either................at least I am not aware of it


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452433
01/06/22 01:40 PM
01/06/22 01:40 PM
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juneau, alaska
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It is pretty common, here. I have several in my back yard.
They put out the white clusters in spring, and are very fragrant, and smell just like fresh-cut grapefruit!
Mid-summer the "flowers" form into tight clusters of bright red berries.
The birds feast on them quickly, (a matter of a week, or so), in early September. I assume the berries reach an optimal stage for consumption, then.


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452490
01/06/22 02:37 PM
01/06/22 02:37 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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I have to wonder if it's more prevalent in marine environments or closer to marine environments ?

Just spoke with a forester here and he said he isn't familiar with it in this area of the state at all


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452497
01/06/22 02:45 PM
01/06/22 02:45 PM
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Posts: 1,060
AK
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AK
Piggy backing off the story that white shared about the marten in the trap eating the beaver. . .

I once caught a fisher in a dirt hole set for fox right outside my house. The critter had not been caught for long maybe 20 minutes. It didn't move much until I got fairly close. I planned to release him and wanted to see if he would accept a piece of meat while I figured out how best to do that. I tossed him a chicken neck from about 5 feet away. He instantly ignored me and when to chewing on the neck. When he was done I let him go.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452507
01/06/22 03:01 PM
01/06/22 03:01 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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I have seen pix of a friend of mine hand feeding a marten while it stands on back feet with its fronts against his knee. " Will work for food"


Back to the mountain ash . Here's a map I found that indicates distribution in AK

[Linked Image]


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452519
01/06/22 03:16 PM
01/06/22 03:16 PM
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juneau, alaska
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alaska viking Offline
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This is very interesting. I knew marten in this area foraged blueberries, (have seen lots of purple scat), but when I was doing stomachs looking for worms, I don't recall finding berries of any flavor. Lots of rodent parts, red meat, (some presumably from my baits), and fur/hair, but no vegetation.
And LOTS of "fish worms"!


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: alaska viking] #7452533
01/06/22 03:25 PM
01/06/22 03:25 PM
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Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
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Originally Posted by alaska viking
This is very interesting. I knew marten in this area foraged blueberries, (have seen lots of purple scat), but when I was doing stomachs looking for worms, I don't recall finding berries of any flavor. Lots of rodent parts, red meat, (some presumably from my baits), and fur/hair, but no vegetation.
And LOTS of "fish worms"!



UGH ......

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452546
01/06/22 03:44 PM
01/06/22 03:44 PM
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Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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In one stomach I found a piece of quartz about the size of a pea and in another, I found a piece of blue tarp !


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452571
01/06/22 04:05 PM
01/06/22 04:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
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alaska viking Offline
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juneau, alaska
No sign of the chocolate chip cookie?


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452584
01/06/22 04:21 PM
01/06/22 04:21 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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Not one iota !!


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452651
01/06/22 05:22 PM
01/06/22 05:22 PM
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Posts: 36,155
james bay frontierOnt.
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james bay frontierOnt.
The ruffed grouse love mountain ash berries,and the sap sucking woodpeckers drill their bark full of rows of small holes.
Mountain ash is an edge species here.And on dry ground.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452661
01/06/22 05:27 PM
01/06/22 05:27 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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My guess is that the soils are not well drained enough in much of AK to suit that plant


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452664
01/06/22 05:29 PM
01/06/22 05:29 PM
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Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Labrador, Canada
Look at marten poops before the snow, and ones trapped before the snow, and you can find berries same as fox at times.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452668
01/06/22 05:33 PM
01/06/22 05:33 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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Yeah that's when I found the blueberries but usually we always have snow before the season opens


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452672
01/06/22 05:35 PM
01/06/22 05:35 PM
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Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
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Cant blame the marten. I would eat those chocolate chip cookies too ....

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7452881
01/06/22 09:10 PM
01/06/22 09:10 PM
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juneau, alaska
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alaska viking Offline
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juneau, alaska
Do tell, White. Who made your lunch that day?


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: white17] #7453008
01/06/22 11:55 PM
01/06/22 11:55 PM
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Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Originally Posted by white17
In one stomach I found a piece of quartz about the size of a pea and in another, I found a piece of blue tarp !


I saw a pile of bear scat on the road in front of the Hyder PO once that was entirely yellow poly rope and aluminum foil. Go figure.


"I'm not skilled to understand"
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453033
01/07/22 12:51 AM
01/07/22 12:51 AM
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SE Idaho
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Range Offline
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Plenty of mountain ash here. I often find mountain ash berries in blue grouse crops.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453054
01/07/22 01:55 AM
01/07/22 01:55 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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I was skinning a wolf once and stuffed an old pair of long johns in his butt to keep him from Off-gassing,
A buddy came in and seen the leg of a pair of longjohns hanging out the wolfs arse and thought he ate someone.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453062
01/07/22 02:36 AM
01/07/22 02:36 AM
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Siberia
Tatiana Offline
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Sables love mountain ash; a few years ago we had a big crop and sables ignored pretty much everything else, including bait, until early January or so (it was also easy to see in their scat, which was pure orange from berries, only occasionally with some shreds of red-backed vole fur). Siberian weasels (Mustela sibirica) also love it and will climb very high up mountain ash trees to get these berries. Trappers here often add clumps of mountain ash berries, as well as Viburnum berries, to bait in leghold sets to make bait more appealing visually. In areas with good numbers of hazel grouse, they often get caught in such sets, too, especially early in the season, which is partially intentional (breast meat is taken and the rest is used for bait).

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453159
01/07/22 08:30 AM
01/07/22 08:30 AM
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Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Labrador, Canada
Good to see you back Tatiana. Your observations make sense and complement much of what we are seeing here.

Weasels in trees for sure all the trappers here know that too. Had a buddy watch one the other day go up a tree twice after birds that were attracted to his bird feeder. It never got any birds but no quitter that animal.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453257
01/07/22 10:40 AM
01/07/22 10:40 AM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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X2 Good to see you here Tatiana. How far are you from salt water ?



Once, many years back, I had an old man come to my cabin and ask for help with a bull moose he had just shot. I got in the boat and went with him.

When we rolled the guts out, and his wife opened the paunch, we found about 500 feet of pink surveyors tape would through the chambers.

At that time BLM was marking allotment corners by dropping an entire roll of flagging from helicopters so the ground crews could locate the approximate corners. It was disgusting to see that stuff all over the landscape !

I figured the stuff had landed in a willow patch and once he got started he just kept ingesting it like a continuous piece of spaghetti.


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453295
01/07/22 11:23 AM
01/07/22 11:23 AM
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Idaho
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bearcat2 Offline
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I never noticed marten eating mountain ash here, but then I've never trapped them when there were berries on. We have lots of mountain ash here, and they are pretty. In fact some of the towns plant them as decorative landscaping. Birds and bears will eat them, but I've neve really seen them as a preferred food. They taste like dirt to me, a friend had me pick a bunch for him one time he was going to try and make wine out of, but I guess it didn't turn out. I remember one year about fifteen years ago when the bears were in them one fall and that is all they were eating, if you weren't in mountain ash there weren't any bears around. But that is the only time I have ever seen it like that, every other year it seems like they will eat them if nothing else is available, and maybe grab a clump as they walk by, but certainly don't go out of their way to eat them.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: bearcat2] #7453311
01/07/22 11:44 AM
01/07/22 11:44 AM
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Posts: 71
Siberia
Tatiana Offline
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Siberia
Originally Posted by white17
How far are you from salt water ?

A few hundred miles, give or take.

Originally Posted by bearcat2
They taste like dirt to me, a friend had me pick a bunch for him one time he was going to try and make wine out of, but I guess it didn't turn out.


IMHO, mountain ash is probably one of the best and most foolproof wild berries for winemaking. Raw berries taste awful, but they lose the bitterness during the fermentation process and their high sorbate content (sorbates are natural preservatives named after Sorbus, actually), protects the wine against molds in the process, even if you prefer low alcohol content in the resulting drink, which is a mild, straw or amber-colored wine with a very recognizable delicate smell. You don't even need brewer's yeast, the naturally occuring strains on the surface do the job very well. I set a batch every year, either pure mountain ash, or a combination with cloudberries or sea buckthorn, but not being a big drinker, I just give it away to eager friends....

by the way, here's a picture taken by Artur Murzakhanov from the Barguzinskiy nature reserve:
[Linked Image]


Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453363
01/07/22 12:35 PM
01/07/22 12:35 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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GREAT picture!!


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453368
01/07/22 12:45 PM
01/07/22 12:45 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 480
Anchorage, Alaska
broncoformudv Offline
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Posts: 480
Anchorage, Alaska
Lovely picture!

This has been a very informative thread, thank you everyone that has added to it.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453377
01/07/22 12:50 PM
01/07/22 12:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 469
Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Labrador, Canada
People in Newfoundland/Labardor have long made dogberry (mountain ash) wine too. Very good to hear an informed Russian version of it.

Last edited by crosspatch; 01/07/22 01:03 PM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Tatiana] #7453409
01/07/22 01:33 PM
01/07/22 01:33 PM
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Posts: 7,070
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
Originally Posted by Tatiana
Originally Posted by white17
How far are you from salt water ?

A few hundred miles, give or take.

Originally Posted by bearcat2
They taste like dirt to me, a friend had me pick a bunch for him one time he was going to try and make wine out of, but I guess it didn't turn out.


IMHO, mountain ash is probably one of the best and most foolproof wild berries for winemaking. Raw berries taste awful, but they lose the bitterness during the fermentation process and their high sorbate content (sorbates are natural preservatives named after Sorbus, actually), protects the wine against molds in the process, even if you prefer low alcohol content in the resulting drink, which is a mild, straw or amber-colored wine with a very recognizable delicate smell. You don't even need brewer's yeast, the naturally occuring strains on the surface do the job very well. I set a batch every year, either pure mountain ash, or a combination with cloudberries or sea buckthorn, but not being a big drinker, I just give it away to eager friends....

by the way, here's a picture taken by Artur Murzakhanov from the Barguzinskiy nature reserve:
[Linked Image]


Great picture!!
It is my dream to visit the Barguzin river valley. Hopefully as soon as this covid nonsense is over.
I plan to take the train to Irkutsk, then spend about a week or so traveling up the east side of the lake.
Are you located anywhere near the rail line?


"I'm not skilled to understand"
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453448
01/07/22 02:13 PM
01/07/22 02:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 71
Siberia
Tatiana Offline
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Siberia
Originally Posted by waggler
Are you located anywhere near the rail line?

40 minutes from the biggest station on the Transsib (that is, when I'm not up north in Yugra...)

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7453795
01/07/22 09:51 PM
01/07/22 09:51 PM
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Posts: 6,138
Manitoba
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Northof50 Offline
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Manitoba
Mountain ash being in the Rose family as are apple trees can have burn-out years and bumper years with flower and fruit production.
Thanks for sharing that photo Tatiana.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459120
01/13/22 02:03 AM
01/13/22 02:03 AM
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Posts: 214
alaska
T
trapped4ever Offline
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alaska
This is what many of my adult marten will look like. They have fat accumulated on the backs of their thighs, on their gut/ groin/ hips, along their spine between their shoulder blades, on the outside of their front legs/ shoulders, on the inside of their front elbows, and around their necks too....

[Linked Image]

This is not to mention the visceral fat deposits, both intestinal and big hard solid chunks packed right up against the spine, internally....

[Linked Image]

Then the skins themselves have to be fleshed just about everywhere too, since they are coated with fat deposits.

[Linked Image]

My marten have always seemed to be well fed, so either the habitat and food are ideal, or they are exceptionally adept hunters....??

Last edited by trapped4ever; 01/13/22 02:36 AM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459124
01/13/22 02:20 AM
01/13/22 02:20 AM
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Posts: 214
alaska
T
trapped4ever Offline
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alaska
Here are a few more from today's skinning....

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459205
01/13/22 08:13 AM
01/13/22 08:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 469
Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Labrador, Canada
OMG never seen nothing like that. You must have your traps set up at a Russian sable farm lol.

And you say you get them like that other times. Would be interesting to know what they are feeding on. What area of Alaska are they coming from?

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459368
01/13/22 11:24 AM
01/13/22 11:24 AM
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Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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T4E.......do you think they are scavenging on the beaches ?

Looks like the Oprah Winfrey subspecies


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459430
01/13/22 12:32 PM
01/13/22 12:32 PM
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Posts: 1,360
alaska
3
3 Fingers Online content
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alaska
Thatís a lot of fat. And that is the norm and not just occasionally .Only thing I can think of is fish in their diet, but maybe something else??

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459456
01/13/22 01:03 PM
01/13/22 01:03 PM
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juneau, alaska
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alaska viking Offline
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T4E, is that normal, every year? I suspect they will have a lot of dead deer to feed on, this winter, and spring.


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459527
01/13/22 01:44 PM
01/13/22 01:44 PM
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Posts: 480
Anchorage, Alaska
broncoformudv Offline
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Anchorage, Alaska
WOW never seen a marten loaded with fat like that!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459540
01/13/22 01:54 PM
01/13/22 01:54 PM
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alaska
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trapped4ever Offline
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alaska
These all were caught back up in a mountain pass, approximately 10 miles from the nearest beach, so not too likely they are scavenging beaches, and no salmon carcasses left along rivers, so I doubt fish calories are a factor. Like I said, this is pretty normal for many of my adult marten. The juvenile/ YOY are not generally nearly as fat, I'm assuming due to more calories being devoted to growth/ development, and probably still not being as adept/ experienced at hunting, plus possibly still figuring out various food sources? I suspect a lot of these marten around here do capitalize on Winter killed deer, of which there is an abundance this year ( I was finding Winter kill by the opening day of trapping season). However, even on years with very little to no snow, and warm temperatures, ( so I'm assuming much less deer mortality), my marten still look like this, so I do not think deer carcass scavenging comes into play as much as some may assume.

My observations over the years, and various regions of the state I have trapped, all point to one basic, fairly obvious fact. Good habitat/ food resources support a more dense population, of overall healthier/ fatter marten. I know this is a very simple premise, but having trapped a variety of regions around the state, I have seen the "normal" type of marten many of you mention, with very little fat on their carcasses, which leads me to assume they have a tougher time hunting up enough calories to survive, hence, probably a lower reproductive rate/ or at least a lower survival rate, thus the lower population density?

This mountain pass these marten were taken from has been productive this year apparently, since the three checks on that line were all similar. Winding up the valley approaching the pass, in the lower elevations, only an occasional marten here and there was captured, and most of these were smaller, skinnier juveniles/ YOY and females (at low densities), once up in the higher part of the pass, much more consistent catches (higher densities), and mostly big, fat marten, mostly males, but some big, fat females too. This was the same pattern for all three checks of that line. Again, this would be a fairly normal scenario around here, with the marten seemingly "congregating" in areas of high food abundance. This often creates the problem of captured marten being cannibalized or being territorially chewed/ bitten, since high densities involving large males seems to raise territorial display behavior. In locations like this, I tend to set traps pretty densely, to avoid as much damage as possible. I'd rather catch them all quickly and move on anyways, but especially if it will help avoid damages.

What I have been able to decipher as a best guess (checking stomachs/ droppings), is that my marten consume a lot of Keen's Deer Mice, and Long-Tailed voles. This is by no means the only food they consume, but is the most consistent food base they seem to prey upon around here.

[Linked Image]

Winter kill fawn from earlier this Fall. No marten or birds were working on it yet.....

[Linked Image]



Last edited by trapped4ever; 01/13/22 02:24 PM.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459576
01/13/22 02:23 PM
01/13/22 02:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,907
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
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Fascinating experiences and info, T4ever. along with your area's plenty, good habitat , you also have among the most amazing variety of colours I have ever seen from any area , so far.

I can't help but keep thinking of how Jack must love seeing this unfolding educational information.

And the ermine statistics in your area would be just as much intriguing for himself, and many others of us, as well.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459589
01/13/22 02:31 PM
01/13/22 02:31 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline OP
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james bay frontierOnt.
Not normal for marten here to carry fat like that.I agree the carrying capacity of that habitat for marten is high if fat like that is the norm.Body fat on female marten late in the season means high reproductive sucess also.
In years of high population here the rate of cannibalism increases,but they are no more fat than other years.probably less so.Followed by a drop in numbers the next year.

T4E,do your marten populations cycle noticeable over time?Say in a 10 year period would there be any noticeable fluctuations from extremely high to almost non existant?I would guess not.

Last edited by Boco; 01/13/22 02:32 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459734
01/13/22 04:56 PM
01/13/22 04:56 PM
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Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
T4E: Do you think drainage has anything to do with the greater densities at higher elevations ? I'm just thinking about vole/mouse holes being less susceptible to flooding on top of the hills as opposed to lower down the slopes


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459804
01/13/22 06:41 PM
01/13/22 06:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,053
Interior Alaska
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Oh Snap Offline
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Posts: 1,053
Interior Alaska
In the area I trapped the snow was a lot deeper at tree line and the brush line. I believed that along with voles there were also berries, ptarmigan. While snow shoeing I have broken through the deep snow and found trails in the brush that I felt that was the reason marten were in that location. And also warmer with all the snow cover and elevation inversion!

Last edited by Oh Snap; 01/13/22 06:42 PM.

I love the smell of burning spruce---I love the sound of a spring time goose---I love the feel of 40 below---from my trapline I will never go!
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7459953
01/13/22 09:18 PM
01/13/22 09:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 214
alaska
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trapped4ever Offline
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Quote
T4E,do your marten populations cycle noticeable over time?Say in a 10 year period would there be any noticeable fluctuations from extremely high to almost non existant?I would guess not.


Yes, I have seen approximately 7-9 year cycles, with a slow year or two of production after the "crashes", during which years I generally limit my harvest even more conservatively than usual. In this region, the population dynamics are much different than many of the other regions of Alaska, in which I have trapped. This has always been my primary trap line, now I am going into I guess my fifth decade of trapping it (all through the 80's, 90's, 00's,10's, and now '20's), however even though I have trapped it every one of those years, I also used to travel up to the interior, and trap some other lines as well, in various locations. I never trapped any of them consistently enough to establish a pattern or cycle, but I haven't really heard too much about any consistent marten cycles from the interior trappers I know.

Quote
T4E: Do you think drainage has anything to do with the greater densities at higher elevations ? I'm just thinking about vole/mouse holes being less susceptible to flooding on top of the hills as opposed to lower down the slopes


No, not necessarily...... In some parts of my line, right down along sea level is a much higher marten population density, than at higher elevation. In some circumstances, it could of course be possible....?? The key ingredient that trumps all others, seems to of course be quality of habitat, and abundance of prey species. I think honestly, to have a better understanding of the dynamics of what habitat is ideal or preferential to high marten densities, and the microtine cycles contained in these regions, I would need a better grasp of the food resources and it's corresponding abundance and density, for these microtine prey species. ie. what seeds, grasses, fungi, insects, carcasses, etc. are these microtines consuming, and what weather patterns, soil types, etc., help contribute to these prey species flourishing?? I don't feel as if I have any actual solid understanding of these prey species and their corresponding food resource's dynamics........ So instead, I manage my line through my own long term proven methods, of a multitude of observations throughout the year. Aside from noting the usual percentage of YOY marten in the harvest, track and scat observation and abundance, I would say by far, my most important method of management, since I have PLENTY of surrounding refugia, is to pay CLOSE attention to catch rates as a whole, over the entire range of my trap line. Thinking of this as a term more like a biologist would call trap nights, this indicates the overall abundance and density more accurately than any other method I have found. In other words, if they aren't there you can't catch them, if they are there, you will catch them. Considering that I have an abundance of surrounding refugia, as long as I don't exceed a reasonable duration of time that I have traps set in an area, I will leave plenty of marten to continue the acceptable harvest, next year. In my opinion, a big problem marten trappers have faced in many regions, has always been trappers leaving sets in locations for too long of a duration (like the entire season), in regions of quite low abundance and population density, thus harvesting to many marten from a given region, and keeping populations artificially low, due to overharvest in that region. Covering more area and establishing new sets, instead of harvesting more from the existing trap sets, is the key to consistent larger catches. This isn't a strategy that will work for everyone, since it consists of a lot of time and work/ effort, plus you need a lot of open space, without trapping competition. Areas with RTL's like Canada would possibly/ potentially be limited in the ability to expand enough. Of course, it would all depend upon how many marten you are attempting to catch...??

I'm not sure about all species of voles, but our Long-Tail voles are VERY tolerant of flooding/ water intrusion. I guess anything living in this region HAS to be tolerant of water, if it is going to thrive wink Our voles live all over the tidal grass flats at the mouths of most rivers, and in the riparian vegetation along the beaches/ watersheds. In the Spring, there are tangled webs of vole clipped tunnels running everywhere along these tidal grass flats. Tidal incursion doesn't stop them, they swim to higher ground if the ocean reaches them in their tunnels/ holes, then reclaim the former home range, when the tide goes back out. A couple years ago, I was waterfowl hunting with a friend of mine who has a falconry permit. One day during an exceptionally high tide in the late Fall, as we were wandering around the tide flats in our chest waders, there were voles swimming like little muskrats all around us. He was just picking them up out of the water by their tails, and filled up a couple empty shotgun shell boxes full of them, to use as live bait, in the bait cages used in falconry, to catch the various hawks and falcons. There were literally dozens of the voles swimming every which way, everywhere you looked. Once the tide dropped, they all came back down off the hummocks and brushy patches of higher ground, and scattered back out into the tidal grass flats. So it didn't appear water intrusion was much of an issue? I can try to take pictures of these vole tunnels this Spring, perhaps? I would think if there was water intrusion while there were un-weaned babies, that would probably be detrimental, and a big build up of ice on the bare ground is probably also difficult for the mice/ voles to deal with??

Quote
In the area I trapped the snow was a lot deeper at tree line and the brush line. I believed that along with voles there were also berries, ptarmigan. While snow shoeing I have broken through the deep snow and found trails in the brush that I felt that was the reason marten were in that location. And also warmer with all the snow cover and elevation inversion!


I think you are spot on, in your region... I trapped down near W17's line a few winters, just a ways further upriver, and I recall being out on the line during -30 to -40F weather, and actually seeing marten pop up out of those subnivean access holes, run across the surface of the snow for a ways, then dive right back in a soft spot of snow, and go back down into the "warm" weather below. They didn't seem to spend nearly as much time along the colder river valleys, or on the top of the snow, if the weather got down there around -40F.





Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460014
01/13/22 09:59 PM
01/13/22 09:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
Thanks T4E ! Extremely interesting stuff to me. So many variables !

I was breaking out my trail after a bunch of snow and cold temperatures. Still about 35 below and I am snowshoeing down a side hill through some willows. When I picked up my downhill shoe a marten was right on the tip and launched into space like a wild thing. Scared the daylights out of me. Nearly had the big infarction right there.


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460034
01/13/22 10:09 PM
01/13/22 10:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 214
alaska
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trapped4ever Offline
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alaska
Here are some on the boards....

[Linked Image]

W17,
That would certainly get your heart rate up. Probably made snow shoeing pretty easy, until the adrenaline wore off!! wink


Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460164
01/13/22 11:26 PM
01/13/22 11:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,296
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Ya got that right !!

Those are some skookum marten !


Mean As Nails
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460202
01/13/22 11:51 PM
01/13/22 11:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
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alaska viking Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
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juneau, alaska
Still hauling the snow machine in the skiff!
I know of nobody that works as hard at what he does as T4E.
Glad all is well over there. We've had some weather, 'eh?


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460256
01/14/22 01:11 AM
01/14/22 01:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 214
alaska
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trapped4ever Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
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alaska
Quote
We've had some weather, 'eh?


Yeah, AV, you aren't kidding!! I had armpit deep snow on the far West end of my line (my side of the portage), by the time the season opened. Boat trapping I was iced out of many areas by the first week or so. Airboat access would possibly work at some of these locations, but to much rough open water between here and there to make it advisable. The snow machine trapping has been a pain too, with the snow load bringing down lots of trees. I cut through over 100 to make 8-10 miles, and limbed the underside of that many, just enough to drive under them. Each trip seems to result in another 15-25 trees to saw through. Certainly wasn't ideal conditions AGAIN this season, but I am doing what little I can wink
A couple feet of ice on some of the bays, by the end of the first month......

[Linked Image]
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Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460273
01/14/22 01:55 AM
01/14/22 01:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 36,155
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline OP
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Good Info T4E,thanks for contributing to the thread,
Nicely handled marten as per usual.

Last edited by Boco; 01/14/22 01:56 AM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460283
01/14/22 02:26 AM
01/14/22 02:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 214
alaska
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trapped4ever Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
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alaska
Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack your thread Boco, I just got carried away with my free-time!! wink

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460286
01/14/22 02:35 AM
01/14/22 02:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,623
Moved to Fbks, Ak.
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martentrapper Offline
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Moved to Fbks, Ak.
T4E, is that trail you all cut yourself in that area?

My first year trapping on my own, 79/80 and trapping with a partner the year before both years on the lower Nowitna saw large numbers of marten, large catches, but few fat marten. At that time most sets were cubbies with footholds. Could a fat marten burn up his fat fighting a trap for a day?

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: trapped4ever] #7460293
01/14/22 03:38 AM
01/14/22 03:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 36,155
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline OP
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james bay frontierOnt.
Originally Posted by trapped4ever
Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack your thread Boco, I just got carried away with my free-time!! wink

Not at all T4E,look forward to your input and pics.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460527
01/14/22 10:48 AM
01/14/22 10:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,759
Idaho, Lemhi County
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Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"
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Idaho, Lemhi County
As always T4E, your observations and analyses are extremely perceptive and much appreciated. Thanks for the education, once again.

Jack


Read a book...

Poetic Injustice:Ramblings from Alaska
The Last Hunt
Wild Life:The Evolution and Misadventures of a Naturalist
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460589
01/14/22 11:28 AM
01/14/22 11:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 469
Labrador, Canada
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crosspatch Offline
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Labrador, Canada
Quite educational observations by many on this thread and ok to wander off a bit for those reasons IMO.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: alaska viking] #7460603
01/14/22 11:45 AM
01/14/22 11:45 AM
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Posts: 9,345
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by alaska viking
Still hauling the snow machine in the skiff!
I know of nobody that works as hard at what he does as T4E.
Glad all is well over there. We've had some weather, 'eh?


I'm pretty sure most of us are Schandelmaier trappers these days. No sense killing yourself at these prices.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460620
01/14/22 12:14 PM
01/14/22 12:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,262
juneau, alaska
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alaska viking Offline
"Made it two years not being censored"
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juneau, alaska
Man, those blow-downs suck! I hate cutting that cove/bay ice in the skiff. Just keep waiting for the can opener! Big winds, huge dumps of snow, near-record cold, and now flooding. What a winter.
Glad you are still getting it done, T4E.


Made it almost 3 years without censor!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Dirt] #7460781
01/14/22 03:59 PM
01/14/22 03:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 36,155
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by alaska viking
Still hauling the snow machine in the skiff!
I know of nobody that works as hard at what he does as T4E.
Glad all is well over there. We've had some weather, 'eh?


I'm pretty sure most of us are Schandelmaier trappers these days. No sense killing yourself at these prices.


Some of us are just in it for the science.
Speak english Dirt-Its bad enough here with the frenchmen.

Last edited by Boco; 01/14/22 04:00 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460786
01/14/22 04:05 PM
01/14/22 04:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,053
Interior Alaska
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Oh Snap Offline
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T4E

When I was younger I had a dream of buying a boat large enough to live in and trap, primarily out of Valdez to start with. In one of your pictures it looks like that is how you spend your winter trapping.

As I discussed my dream with Dean Wilson who had spent a lot of time out of Valdez he told me a story that changed my mind! It was about a guy that did just that.

He was in Jacks Bay running traps. The snow was really deep at the high tide mark so travel was difficult. When he motored out to the mouth of the bay the water was rough so he thought he would go back to the back of the bay and wait the weather out. This was before cell phones or satellite phones at least he didn't have one. The weather continued to get worse as the days crawled by and if you have ever been near the Narrows its can be flat dangerous in a small boat. As I remember the story after so long ago, days went by and he began to run out of food. He had a pot along and caught a few flounder but was running out of options. I believe it was several weeks before he was able to return to Valdez.

So Dean in his wisdom comment to me was " So you want to trap out of a boat" My dream ended so T4E trap away your my hero...LOL


I love the smell of burning spruce---I love the sound of a spring time goose---I love the feel of 40 below---from my trapline I will never go!
Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Boco] #7460850
01/14/22 05:41 PM
01/14/22 05:41 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 480
Anchorage, Alaska
broncoformudv Offline
trapper
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 480
Anchorage, Alaska
Boco John Schandelmeier is an Alaskan musher, trapper, writer who it seems mostly just writes these days. I do enjoy his articles.

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: Oh Snap] #7460852
01/14/22 05:43 PM
01/14/22 05:43 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 480
Anchorage, Alaska
broncoformudv Offline
trapper
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 480
Anchorage, Alaska
Originally Posted by Oh Snap
T4E

When I was younger I had a dream of buying a boat large enough to live in and trap, primarily out of Valdez to start with. In one of your pictures it looks like that is how you spend your winter trapping.

As I discussed my dream with Dean Wilson who had spent a lot of time out of Valdez he told me a story that changed my mind! It was about a guy that did just that.

He was in Jacks Bay running traps. The snow was really deep at the high tide mark so travel was difficult. When he motored out to the mouth of the bay the water was rough so he thought he would go back to the back of the bay and wait the weather out. This was before cell phones or satellite phones at least he didn't have one. The weather continued to get worse as the days crawled by and if you have ever been near the Narrows its can be flat dangerous in a small boat. As I remember the story after so long ago, days went by and he began to run out of food. He had a pot along and caught a few flounder but was running out of options. I believe it was several weeks before he was able to return to Valdez.

So Dean in his wisdom comment to me was " So you want to trap out of a boat" My dream ended so T4E trap away your my hero...LOL


Valdez is beautiful but I have to agree with Deans thoughts, those narrows would be a huge obstacle during the winter. Hey that island in the middle of the bay has a nice protected cove you could hole up in though and gravel beach for beaching your boat!

Re: Fat Marten. [Re: broncoformudv] #7460861
01/14/22 06:00 PM
01/14/22 06:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,345
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by broncoformudv
Boco John Schandelmeier is an Alaskan musher, trapper, writer who it seems mostly just writes these days. I do enjoy his articles.


schandelmeier


Who is John Galt?
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