The old breeders figured it out with out all of our modern knowledge , just paying attention to what they did and the results. One chicken color development and fixation solution had to do with feather characteristics of the chicks as they developed.

Very true, Okie. I am a member of some chook breeders groups who over time have reached the standard for type , colour and feathering.

In horses , that can hold surprises.

In appys , it is a fascinating science to get consistent colour tones . A lot of variables goes into the mix. Some breeders have it down.

To me, a most interesting anomaly is the clean slate breeder....the sleeper ....the non descript , mostly white , bland looking appy that looks quite boring on the outside, but has the gene to create foals with blasting bold eye-popping colours. There is a formal term for that, but I can't bring it to mind right now...when breeders get a stud or mare that is marginal in that colour with the dominate gene , they get a consistent winner in tones almost every time.

Years ago I had a gelding that was a marginal , if he was left a stud he would have thrown the same loud colours .

Genetics and colours ....another lifetime fascinating endeavor.

I always think of Jack , our Tman Gulo. The love of learning life. Not enough years in life to enjoy it all.

When you quit learning you've quit living.

Indeed.

But even with colors you also have the algebra of type and function to throw in. Now I know why the old hound breeders stuck with just breed the best to best.
It's definitely a fascinating subject though.

Absolutely, warrior.

Horse breeders very much concentrate on those things first , and the icing on the cake is the bling on the colour tones. Same with chooks.

Question, in honeybees....is there concentration on specific types within a species ?

I know of the two types, African and European ....but I would think there are breakdowns in types and function differences to work best in certain habitat or purpose?

Honeybees are my favourite insect . They make the world go round. But I don't know much about them at all.

Well as you know they are not native to the America's. So they are kind of like us from all over.

There's 25 subspecies of Western Honeybee in the old world and this includes the half a dozen or so european races, about that many african races with the remainder being from southwest and western Asia.

We have very few written records of the original imports with the first known being the western european subspecies to Jamestown in 1622. But by modern times many were imported from various places prior to the 1922 border closing to bees that remains to this day.

Multiple studies of both kept and feral stock have identified genetic markers from at least a dozen of these subspecies.

A long way of saying our bees in the America's are much like us, mutts.

But interestingly those studies also showed very clear differences between managed bees and ferals. So, yes, to answer your question controlled breeding has preserved two main phenotypic strains within the managed population the majority italian phenotype and the more docile and cold adapted carniolan (balkans/austria) phenotype. Though neither could be considered pure. Further breeders are selecting for various behavioral traits such as hygienic behaviors to better combat disease or mites. There is even a composite strain known as buckfast.

The ferals on the other hand appear to be showing natural selection in action with ferals in the southeast showing a rather broad genetic symmetry while bees in the southwest as well have a symmetry but using different genes than the southern bees. JMO, but it might very well be the early development of new american subspecies but definitely regional adaptation.

And while we're on genes. Honeybees are extremely susceptible to inbreeding issues due to the parthenogenic origin of the male drones. They arise from unfertilized eggs.

As such they have no father but do have a grandfather and are basically genetic copies of their mother queens and half brothers to all future queens raised in their parent colonies. Fortunately they have behavioral traits to prevent drones from mating with half sisters including polygamy.

But it throws an interesting wrench into a breeding program whether it be through open mating or instrumental insemination

Sharon, you may be too young to remember the TV show wagon train. One of the regulars that was the guide or Scout stage name Flint McCullough. He rode a beautiful black-and-white app that came from a ranch in Central Texas owned by a man named Irah Hanna. Irah had about 2000 acres and generally ran about 180 Appaloosas at any one time. The horse I mentioned was Jet black with a white blanket and beautiful black spots. He gave my sister a sorrel filly just because it didn’t have any spots. One of the odd things about Mr. Hanna was he transported his personal stock in the back of a pick up truck with side rails. He had those horses trained to jump into the bed of the pick up on command. He would tie the reins to the saddle horn and say HUP! Loadup! Then he would close the tail gate and drive off.

Dad had a charlais cow named Charlie he could do that with.

My goodness, what a fascinating history of bees. And the entwining genetics involved ! That seems to leave so much open to challenge, with the feral bees , and details of breeding programs.

This sounds like a good interest for biologists here , such as Jack , and those like him with a biologists' heart.

Sounds a little like chooks too. They were native to other countries and have been bred to adapt here , though still challenging for breeders to get to the standard of perfection , with occasional throwbacks to make allowances for.

Seems like the smaller the creature, the more complicated it is to target specific traits and strengths in breeding.

I can't imagine the tenacity it must take to keep keen watch on your bees in protection of all the invasive elements , feral bees included.

Neat story on Flint. Yes I used to watch wagon train. Loved it.

Didn't know this about Irah . A lot like drafts who walk right in the trailer , all they need is to be told to go in. Thank you for that cool share.

Or coonhunting jumping mules trained to flat foot jump a fence.

No kidding ! Ive jumped them in stride and they do great...but to see them from standstill is amazing.

I saw a mule do that over the side bar of an open stock trailer once. Not through the door....out the side

Saw a 2000lb bull do that out of dad's truck bed once on the highway. Not one of our better cattle wrangling days. LOL

I bet that rocked the boat !

Hit the pavement running flat out. When we finally got him hemmed up his next trip was straight to the locker.

Cool on the hoof !!

I always loved the Aps. A real wild horse.

I've owned one, a strawberry roan. If she was representative of the breed they should all be shot. Crazy female dog don't begin to describe it.

She needed a dozen whisperers and a couple psychiatrists on speed dial to get to the root of her problems. That time she busted a saddle, tree and all, after giving me more than eight seconds worth before I bailed face first into a fence was enough. Some crazy gal said she liked them spirited and traded straight up for a dappled palomino Skipadore bred QH gelding. I told the gal everything wrong with that mare and offered to toss in a bullet so she wouldn't think I got the best of her. It must took or the dang mare killed her as I never heard back from the gal.
The QH turned out to dumb as a rock and skeered of a hat full of water laying in the trail but he was a big dumb sweetheart.