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Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7452971
01/06/22 11:04 PM
01/06/22 11:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,048
Northern Mn
rick olson Online content
trapper
rick olson  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,048
Northern Mn
So 2 coyotes to every roughly 3000 acres is decent???I know from studies some area's in different states have 8 to 10 per section,I don't know what some of KS top area's would be per square mile,guessing there are a fair amount with 2 to 4 per sections

Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7452984
01/06/22 11:24 PM
01/06/22 11:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,914
SD
Boone Liane Offline
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Boone Liane  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,914
SD
Well, it’s highly subjective what is considered high and low densities.

Yes, I consider a coyote every two square miles a decent population.

But, I’m used to dealing with, most years, one to maybe 1.5 family groups in a township. 6-10’ish individuals. One coyote every 4-6 square miles. And my sheep guys still call that “to many” coyotes.

And KS/OK just shouldn’t be compared with anywhere else. It’s just,...the coyote belt.

Last edited by Boone Liane; 01/06/22 11:30 PM.
Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: rick olson] #7453128
01/07/22 07:57 AM
01/07/22 07:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,709
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,709
Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by rick olson
So 2 coyotes to every roughly 3000 acres is decent???I know from studies some area's in different states have 8 to 10 per section,I don't know what some of KS top area's would be per square mile,guessing there are a fair amount with 2 to 4 per sections
I'm sure there are some sections with dead piles or feed lots in them that might have 4 to eight coyotes in them (concentrated areas) but if you you took in a large area like 100 square miles my guess the average would be closer to 1 or 2 per section in a lot of parts of Ks. Between the open farm ground and livestock it can definitely concentrate the coyotes we have. When we've hunted them with dogs we would have great day if we seen one for every 2 sections we hunted. But I'm sure we were missing a few.

With low fur prices after a week of running a small line north of me I decided I would just trap at my house. I've caught 12 in the section I live in but we've also had between 160 to 375 head of cattle in it with several deads. Seems around here every coyote within 5 miles will make a loop every so often through the cows to look for food. We got a light snow a week ago so I made a survey through the neighborhood and could tell I'd that I had significantly put a dent in numbers within a 5 mile area around me.

Last edited by Yes sir; 01/07/22 08:08 AM.
Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7453461
01/07/22 02:31 PM
01/07/22 02:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,614
SE SD
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DWC Offline
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DWC  Offline
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Posts: 1,614
SE SD
I love these discussions on coyote densities and territory sizes. If you talk to your average farmer or hunter (who doesnt call/trap coyotes) in nw iowa or se SD, there are 8-10 per section minimum. I know and you know thats false, but theres no arguing with them. My father in law in Iowa regularly sees coyotes “as big as his 80 lb labs”. Again, cant argue it. I would like to see some studies, if there are any, from square mile farm country coyote populations vs people’s educated guesses. Not as easy as a roadside pheasant count. I have areas i call that are crop ground mixed with timber and big hills and rivers with higher deer population than farm country. I do have spots in That type of area we have more success calling. I think home territories tend to be larger in square mile flat farmland with lower deer population personally than in hilly timbered country. I very well may be wrong.

Last edited by DWC; 01/07/22 02:33 PM.
Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: DWC] #7453748
01/07/22 09:20 PM
01/07/22 09:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,550
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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Posts: 9,550
East-Central Wisconsin
When talking animals per unit of habitat it has me thinking and I am hoping that those with more canine experience and science background ban offer advice. To me habitat can determine carrying capacity be that dense, moderate or light. I don't have a clue what those numbers would or should be. Another aspect to me is the territorial nature of canines and for this post I would include say red and grey fox, coyotes and wolves. Which of those species would be the least to most territorial with habitat being a non factor? Would the territorial nature of a species create selected areas or spots of interaction or would there be less interaction. I can see where there maybe differences within individuals, or family groups as to tolerance or lack there of. One other factor could well be the shifting of prey or food sources and what takes place when predators follow the food and how does that impact territory size and tolerance.
Thank you for any thoughts you may be willing to share.
In our area we have a very diverse habitat, About 755 to 80% of the land is farmable and rolling with many smaller wood lots scattered with low river and stream bottom lands and small sloughs. It seems this area allows reds to keep a foothold in our area and don't know how our habitat impacts coyote populations and or densities.

Bryce

Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7453774
01/07/22 09:36 PM
01/07/22 09:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,709
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
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Yes sir  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 6,709
Marion Kansas
From what I've seen in my area, coyotes may have a home area(territory) but don't seem to protect it and try to keep other coyotes out. They may establish a chain of dominance amongst themselves but seem to regularly share areas. I would suspect during denning and pup raising they may be pretty protective of the core area around den. To many spots were 5 to 20 coyotes get trapped for me to believe they try to defend a territory. [Linked Image]
During mating season

Last edited by Yes sir; 01/07/22 09:37 PM.
Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7453943
01/08/22 12:32 AM
01/08/22 12:32 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5,317
SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
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Wanna Be  Offline
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5,317
SW Georgia
So 12 coyotes off 2500ac is a lot?

Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7453971
01/08/22 01:24 AM
01/08/22 01:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 5,290
Kansas
Pawnee Offline
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Pawnee  Offline
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Kansas
I think when it comes to coyotes we drastically underestimated the numbers of transient coyotes and how fast they can slip into new territories. IMHO


Everything the left touches it destroys
Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Pawnee] #7454002
01/08/22 05:14 AM
01/08/22 05:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,747
Montana
USMC47 🦫 Offline
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USMC47 🦫  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,747
Montana
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
So 12 coyotes off 2500ac is a lot?
At first glance, that can seem like a lot. Anyone would be happy with a parcel that size giving up 12 coyotes, especially if it did it annually. But…consider there are also single traps that do it annually also. That said, it’s not necessarily resident coyotes that acreage is holding. It could be a great dispersal route or a natural funnel.
Originally Posted by Pawnee
I think when it comes to coyotes we drastically underestimated the numbers of transient coyotes and how fast they can slip into new territories. IMHO
This is a fact. When we talk about being territorial, sometimes people think of a territory as having an invisible force field around it. Coyotes are unable to be everywhere in their territory at once and, therefore, drifters, dispersers, food shoppers, and coyotes looking to join another family are always a factor. I have kind of a unique situation. From my bedroom I can see two coulees. They are 1.23 miles apart. Coyotes will den in these areas and generally and loosely frequent these areas year round. When I hear chatter I can glass these areas and see coyotes in the middle. They do NOT tolerate movement back and forth between family groups. They don’t have a sense of humor from January to about July but denning season they’re obviously most serious. Food sources also dictate their actions. If I live on 10 acres and have a ton of food, I may be less sensitive to my needs beyond the 10 acres. But If I live in one of those coulees and it’s surrounded by miles of nothing but a few gophers and jackrabbits, I may be more sensitive to people coming within a mile or three of my house. Hope that makes sense. I’m no expert or biologist. Just my observations.


The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle.

www.derricks-nm.com
Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7454003
01/08/22 05:21 AM
01/08/22 05:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,747
Montana
USMC47 🦫 Offline
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USMC47 🦫  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,747
Montana
So we are comparing apples to apples, I can drive an hour north of me and set a few traps on a particular ranch and hope for 4 coyotes over 3 weeks. Then it’s dead. They’re just the resident coyotes and it lacks any other movement. This area is covering nearly 5,000 acres. There’s very little food sources and water is limited to stock tanks.


The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle.

www.derricks-nm.com
Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7454023
01/08/22 07:04 AM
01/08/22 07:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,865
East Texas
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BTLowry Offline
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BTLowry  Offline
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Posts: 1,865
East Texas
I had a picture 18mo or so with 5 in it at once. Caught 3 females and recently had a picture with 4.
This is on about 50ac at the house.
Some nights you can hear them in all directions howling and yipping

Pretty sure that around here as you catch a few, others move in to fill the gap.

Definitely no shortage of them and no danger of eradicating them

Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7454100
01/08/22 09:17 AM
01/08/22 09:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,914
SD
Boone Liane Offline
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Boone Liane  Offline
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Posts: 2,914
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Of course food is going to dictate how many of any wild species you’ll have. When the goings good and food is plentiful there will always be a growing population.

As far as coyote territories and them defending/patrolling/controlling those areas, I don’t believe they’re near as territorial as most people believe them to be.

They’re at their most territorial from May through August. The pups are growing, once weaned the protein requirements are astronomical. They can be pretty (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) with competition this time of year. But in bountiful years, even during this peak territorial behavior time, any territorial nature can be greatly reduced.

By fur season though, forget “territories”. Concentrate on dispersal. Sure their might be some late litters still somewhat holding together in “summer range”, but for the most part these borders have dissolved. The family group is pretty foot loose and fancy free come November. Now, I have seen where pups have dispersed out, than come running back to familiar turf say in nov/dec at the first signs of sour weather. Kind of like a college kid coming home to have mom do their laundry.

Coyotes social structure is quite malleable. It’s one of the many things that makes them so much more successful as a species than say, wolves.

I’ve read many times that coyotes start to develop and maintain these so called territories during pairing/mating season. Which up here is late Jan through early March. But I’ve seen WAY to many times, during this time of year, coyotes set aside any semblance of persnickity territorial anti-social behavior (besides its mate), and stack up heavy and in close proximity to prime food sources. Not at all uncommon if the populations there, and especially in hard winters to see 20-25 coyotes within a mile or two of prime food sources during this late winter period.

That’s my take on coyote territories. Can they be territorial? Absolutely. Are they as territorial as some let on? Not in my opinion. Unless you’re doing summer control work, I wouldn’t worry much about territorial stuff as a major tool to kill coyotes. Food and dispersal features are where the money is in fur season.

Last edited by Boone Liane; 01/08/22 09:22 AM.
Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7454315
01/08/22 01:55 PM
01/08/22 01:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 95
Maryland
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oppossum1 Offline
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 95
Maryland
Last season on one 800 acre farm I caught 8 coyotes. The farmer that borders the 800 acres hunts them at night on his 600 acres and he shot 6 coyotes. This year I caught zero and get one coyote every 10-14 days on game cameras.
I'm guessing a family group was there last year? Can there be that many coyotes passing through on dispersal? Food source is still there by the tracks and droppings I see. Maybe this is a low population year? I don't know the answer, but it's frustrating for sure.


"You cook good rabbit pilgrim."
Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: Mac] #7454586
01/08/22 07:58 PM
01/08/22 07:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,557
SE Kansas
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Len Dunham Offline
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Len Dunham  Offline
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Posts: 1,557
SE Kansas
I just got done pulling trats

Re: Appearance of coyote sets [Re: steeltraps] #7456007
01/10/22 07:23 AM
01/10/22 07:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,372
Southern Michigan
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trappergbus Offline
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trappergbus  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,372
Southern Michigan
Originally Posted by steeltraps
Originally Posted by The Beav
I always figured a open hole with bait In It was unnatural In the scheme of things.

I kind of go along with James Lucero's method of closing up the hole to make things more natural.

Beav , I feel the same way. After catching 125 plus coyotes out of 314 . Using James Lucero's methods. And after hours of talking to him < I have mixed results on the covered hole. Some of the place I trap 3 times each year ,for the past 5 years you CAN NOT get a coyote to hit on a dirt hole no matter what you do. And I use muskrats and still have very little luck on these places with dirtholes. They just show to much avodince to them. But if you went to = Texas, New Mexico, or Kanas. I bet you could catch them with any style of dirthole. Was on phone with friend from Texas less than 1 hr ago. He ONLY uses dirt holes. Has caught 103 since Jan 4 th with only dirtholes

Yes, but how many more could have been trapped if he would have incorporated some flat sets in the mix??


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
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