No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 6 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: Clark] #7456201
01/10/22 11:49 AM
01/10/22 11:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
trapper
Bruce T  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by Bruce T
Where are the charging units back 200 miles in the woods?


The answer is easy, the same way you get gasoline “200 miles in the woods”. Bring it with you. Sure, it’s not as easy with an electric vehicle but your argument is a red herring. Nobody is filling up a vehicle out in the boonies.
[/quote]
What are you bringing back?A gas powered generator?


Nevada bound
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456245
01/10/22 12:39 PM
01/10/22 12:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
The almost free market sets the price for gasoline. The public utilities commission ( the government) sets the rate for electricity. No free market in the electricity supply business.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456256
01/10/22 01:04 PM
01/10/22 01:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,152
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,152
Northern Minnesota
Aren't these electric cars charged with 240V or are they 120V?

Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: BernieB.] #7456258
01/10/22 01:09 PM
01/10/22 01:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by BernieB.
Aren't these electric cars charged with 240V or are they 120V?


The supply appears to be anywhere from 480volt ac 3 phase to 120 volt ac 1 phase. The cars themselves use dc up to 800 or so volts depending on models.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456274
01/10/22 01:23 PM
01/10/22 01:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,972
South Dakota
R
Rat Masterson Offline
trapper
Rat Masterson  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,972
South Dakota
S o how long would it take to drive 350 miles in the north country with an electric car with the heater on? VS a little over 6 hrs with my truck.

Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: Rat Masterson] #7456404
01/10/22 03:46 PM
01/10/22 03:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
S o how long would it take to drive 350 miles in the north country with an electric car with the heater on? VS a little over 6 hrs with my truck.

You have to also account for the camper and generator and gas you'll be pulling behind the elektrik car.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456425
01/10/22 04:09 PM
01/10/22 04:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,152
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,152
Northern Minnesota
Okay I did a little checking so I found out that most of these cars can be plugged into a regular home outlet to charge but it takes a long time. A Tesla, for example will take 21 hours to charge from dead to full charge with 120V. At 240V it can charge in as little as 2 hours, depending on the charging system.

Here are some observations from a guy who is not an electrician and knows just enough to be dangerous:
Most homes are not capable of charging at 240V. Depending on how much is coming to the home, you're looking at several thousand to outfit the home with a 240V charging system. If you already have 240V then it would be less, but still a significant cost. I have a 200-amp service at the pole for example and I am looking at $3000-$5000 to get 240V in my garage with a charging port for an electric car.

For a commuter, these cars might be a viable option because you can plug the car in at work and at home, but you're probably going to want a second car for other things.

Long trips such as a cross country vacation are going to be a nightmare in one of these cars. It takes 5 minutes to pump a tank full of gas but you're looking at hours of charging for a cross country trip. Definitely going to add a lot of time to the travel.

What about pulling a boat, a camper, a horse trailer, etc.? Definitely going to drain the batteries much faster. Are they even capable? How much torque do they have compared to a diesel for example.

Cost of charging? So if I pull into a "Fuel" stop and charge my car for a couple hours how much is that going to cost? If I stop at a motel are they going to have a charger and how much will they add to the bill? Considering the laws of supply and demand, how much is the cost of electricity going to go up because of the gigantic rise in demand? That's inevitable which is going to cost everyone more at least for a couple decades until the infrastructure gets built and the supply catches up with demand. Wil the cost of gas/diesel go down?

I spend a lot of time in the bush, far away from any source of electricity. I really don't see an electric vehicle being a viable option for me personally, although if the price is reasonable and they are reliable and cost effective, I could see my wife using one as a commuter to work. But seriously, today's cars routinely get to 300,000 miles with minor, if any, engine repairs. I really doubt we'll see anything close to that longevity in my lifetime with electric motors and lithium batteries.

Still a lot of questions. I really want to see the good in this but it's hard. All in all, I see this costing us all a lot of money, even those of us who can't take advantage of the positives.

Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456428
01/10/22 04:15 PM
01/10/22 04:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
trapper
Bruce T  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Lol....might be time to go back to horses or horse and buggy.


Nevada bound
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: BernieB.] #7456454
01/10/22 04:48 PM
01/10/22 04:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by BernieB.
Okay I did a little checking so I found out that most of these cars can be plugged into a regular home outlet to charge but it takes a long time. A Tesla, for example will take 21 hours to charge from dead to full charge with 120V. At 240V it can charge in as little as 2 hours, depending on the charging system.

Here are some observations from a guy who is not an electrician and knows just enough to be dangerous:
Most homes are not capable of charging at 240V. Depending on how much is coming to the home, you're looking at several thousand to outfit the home with a 240V charging system. If you already have 240V then it would be less, but still a significant cost. I have a 200-amp service at the pole for example and I am looking at $3000-$5000 to get 240V in my garage with a charging port for an electric car.

For a commuter, these cars might be a viable option because you can plug the car in at work and at home, but you're probably going to want a second car for other things.

Long trips such as a cross country vacation are going to be a nightmare in one of these cars. It takes 5 minutes to pump a tank full of gas but you're looking at hours of charging for a cross country trip. Definitely going to add a lot of time to the travel.

What about pulling a boat, a camper, a horse trailer, etc.? Definitely going to drain the batteries much faster. Are they even capable? How much torque do they have compared to a diesel for example.

Cost of charging? So if I pull into a "Fuel" stop and charge my car for a couple hours how much is that going to cost? If I stop at a motel are they going to have a charger and how much will they add to the bill? Considering the laws of supply and demand, how much is the cost of electricity going to go up because of the gigantic rise in demand? That's inevitable which is going to cost everyone more at least for a couple decades until the infrastructure gets built and the supply catches up with demand. Wil the cost of gas/diesel go down?

I spend a lot of time in the bush, far away from any source of electricity. I really don't see an electric vehicle being a viable option for me personally, although if the price is reasonable and they are reliable and cost effective, I could see my wife using one as a commuter to work. But seriously, today's cars routinely get to 300,000 miles with minor, if any, engine repairs. I really doubt we'll see anything close to that longevity in my lifetime with electric motors and lithium batteries.

Still a lot of questions. I really want to see the good in this but it's hard. All in all, I see this costing us all a lot of money, even those of us who can't take advantage of the positives.


Bernie, torque from an electric motor isn't an issue... You could turn the planet with a DC motor. But you won't be turning it for long if you use batteries.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456456
01/10/22 04:51 PM
01/10/22 04:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
Redknot Offline
trapper
Redknot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
The off-ramps on highways will not be long enough for all the "e" cars lined up waiting to charge...Gone are the five-minute fill-ups that we are all used to...

The only way to make this work would be to have areas of third rail charging as a separate lane on our Interstates...Not for the entire length of the interstate, but short sections (mile) on high voltage charge, where vehicles could travel at perhaps twenty miles per hour and pay a "toll" via camera like on some tollways...



~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: HayDay] #7456462
01/10/22 04:57 PM
01/10/22 04:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,594
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
trapper
Trapper7  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,594
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted by HayDay
4 cents a mile....more or less depending on local cost per kwh.

So on Nov 3rd, I was paying $1.80 per gallon for gas......Camry gets 30 mpg. So 6 cents a mile.

Explains a lot.....like why some puke bent on flipping the fleet from gas to electric would want to double or triple energy prices. The question is why? Whose greedy palm is getting greased from all this?

The cost per mile will increase in the winter months in the northern US due to the cold temps. It was -22 this morning. I let my truck warm up for about 20 minutes better I took off. How much would I have drained my battery down before I even moved the truck? I can't imagine someone living in AK where temps get down to -60 at times; be lucky to get to the local store and back. Electric vehicles, very impractical.


I don't care how nice the hand soap smells, you should never walk out of the restroom sniffing your fingers.
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456482
01/10/22 05:06 PM
01/10/22 05:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
EVs make perfect sense in the cities. That's where the pollution is and short commutes makes EVs sensible. Let them figure out their power source. Leave the rural folks to make their own decisions. And diesel rigs will never be replaced on the roads. Here in Florida there is a coal powered plant a mile down the road and I reckon it will stay there.

Last edited by Gary Benson; 01/10/22 05:07 PM.

Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456539
01/10/22 06:01 PM
01/10/22 06:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
"Speaking of charging, it’s best to only use (Direct Current) DC rapid chargers sparingly. Although fine for topping up on longer journeys, or in emergencies when you need a quick burst of energy, a by-product of rapid chargers’ speed is the increased, lithium-ion damaging temperatures in the battery as it copes with the electrical onslaught."


Who is John Galt?
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: Gary Benson] #7456543
01/10/22 06:05 PM
01/10/22 06:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,152
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,152
Northern Minnesota
Originally Posted by Gary Benson
EVs make perfect sense in the cities. That's where the pollution is and short commutes makes EVs sensible. Let them figure out their power source. Leave the rural folks to make their own decisions. And diesel rigs will never be replaced on the roads. Here in Florida there is a coal powered plant a mile down the road and I reckon it will stay there.


We'll never see those days again.

Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: Trapper7] #7456555
01/10/22 06:21 PM
01/10/22 06:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,579
Duluth, MN
C
Clark Offline
trapper
Clark  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,579
Duluth, MN
Originally Posted by Trapper7
The cost per mile will increase in the winter months in the northern US due to the cold temps. It was -22 this morning. I let my truck warm up for about 20 minutes better I took off. How much would I have drained my battery down before I even moved the truck? I can't imagine someone living in AK where temps get down to -60 at times; be lucky to get to the local store and back. Electric vehicles, very impractical.


Why would you warm up a vehicle that can produce warm cabin air instantaneously? Of course, why do you warm up your vehicle for 20 minutes when it takes 5 on the road?

Bernie - 220 is, from what I’ve seen, common for EV chargers. You bring up some good questions that have been pondered by people who are paid to think about these issues. Do some more research and you’ll find answers.

Last edited by Clark; 01/10/22 06:22 PM.

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: Clark] #7456563
01/10/22 06:28 PM
01/10/22 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,152
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,152
Northern Minnesota
Originally Posted by Clark
Originally Posted by Trapper7
The cost per mile will increase in the winter months in the northern US due to the cold temps. It was -22 this morning. I let my truck warm up for about 20 minutes better I took off. How much would I have drained my battery down before I even moved the truck? I can't imagine someone living in AK where temps get down to -60 at times; be lucky to get to the local store and back. Electric vehicles, very impractical.


Why would you warm up a vehicle that can produce warm cabin air instantaneously? Of course, why do you warm up your vehicle for 20 minutes when it takes 5 on the road?

Bernie - 220 is, from what I’ve seen, common for EV chargers. You bring up some good questions that have been pondered by people who are paid to think about these issues. Do some more research and you’ll find answers.


So your hands don't freeze to the steering wheel, your butt doesn't freeze to the seat and so you can see out the windows. Being from Duluth you should have some experience with this smile

Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456578
01/10/22 06:44 PM
01/10/22 06:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
H
hippie Online content
trapper
hippie  Online Content
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,691
pa
I just allowed mine to warm up today.....to melt the 1/2" of ice off the windshield that we got yesterday.

Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: Redknot] #7456582
01/10/22 06:46 PM
01/10/22 06:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,471
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
trapper
trapdog1  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 10,471
Iowa
Originally Posted by Redknot
The off-ramps on highways will not be long enough for all the "e" cars lined up waiting to charge...Gone are the five-minute fill-ups that we are all used to...

The only way to make this work would be to have areas of third rail charging as a separate lane on our Interstates...Not for the entire length of the interstate, but short sections (mile) on high voltage charge, where vehicles could travel at perhaps twenty miles per hour and pay a "toll" via camera like on some tollways...


And a mess like this would, of course, be taxpayer funded and run three times higher than the estimated cost and take years to iron the bugs out.

Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: uplandpointer] #7456605
01/10/22 07:08 PM
01/10/22 07:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
The only sensible thing is to put overhead wiring above the roadways so the EVs can be constantly in contact with juice like the streetcars in the cities.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Re: Cost of Charging Electric Car [Re: hippie] #7456609
01/10/22 07:10 PM
01/10/22 07:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
G
Gary Benson Offline
trapper
Gary Benson  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,539
Sandhills Nebraska
Originally Posted by hippie
I just allowed mine to warm up today.....to melt the 1/2" of ice off the windshield that we got yesterday.

I think the lektrik cars melt that ice instantaneously when you step out the house.


Life ain't supposed to be easy.
Page 6 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread