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7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL #7459483
01/13/22 12:20 PM
01/13/22 12:20 PM
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Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline OP
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On the news last night they announced 7 % inflation over last years prices. BUT they then post a chart of comparision to certain products.
Gas up 54%
Cars up 37%
rent up 41%
Meat up 39%
Cleaning products up29%
How in the heck do they come up with only 7 % . Not anything I seen gone down to pull the inflation down to 7 %

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459489
01/13/22 12:23 PM
01/13/22 12:23 PM
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Posts: 2,820
7mtns of CENTRAL PA
GROUSEWIT Offline
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New libtard DemonRats math grin


NRALIFER,HUNTER,FURTAKER(PTA)(FTA)(NMTA)(RMEF)
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459539
01/13/22 12:53 PM
01/13/22 12:53 PM
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Kansas
Pawnee Offline
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I think they base it off the consumer price index which makes the numbers look better but don’t quote me on that. Either way it’s junk math


Everything the left touches it destroys
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459543
01/13/22 12:57 PM
01/13/22 12:57 PM
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North East Kansas
Marty Offline
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it is all bs and the thing is that alot of folks believe it.....some people watch cnn all day long... frown

I think we have trouble coming....well, more than is already here...way more.


Live/Die with Integrity and Honor.
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459548
01/13/22 01:02 PM
01/13/22 01:02 PM
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Posts: 4,692
carolina, Alabama
The Possum Man Offline
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yep that 30 to 40 percent inflation seems closer to real.


"If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough"
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459561
01/13/22 01:11 PM
01/13/22 01:11 PM
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Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
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7% per day.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459567
01/13/22 01:16 PM
01/13/22 01:16 PM
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MN
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ceelmo.trap Offline
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SS went up 5.9% and then they raised the medicare premium cost wiped out the raise. Ive said it before money profit greed rule, man creates inflation man can stop it or bring under control.Those that have the deep pockets dont care about inflation. Have ya ever heard a millionaire complain about cost, gas food medical .

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459584
01/13/22 01:29 PM
01/13/22 01:29 PM
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Champaign County, Ohio.
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KeithC Offline
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Originally Posted by jbyrd63
On the news last night they announced 7 % inflation over last years prices. BUT they then post a chart of comparision to certain products.
Gas up 54%
Cars up 37%
rent up 41%
Meat up 39%
Cleaning products up29%
How in the heck do they come up with only 7 % . Not anything I seen gone down to pull the inflation down to 7 %


There are literally million of different products sold in the US. Some of those products only increased very little in price and some even decreased. The actual inflation rate may well be 7%. Since most Americans don't buy those other products and do buy the ones listed, the effective inflation rate is beyond terrible right now.

Lets Go Brandon!

Keith

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: ceelmo.trap] #7459594
01/13/22 01:34 PM
01/13/22 01:34 PM
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Posts: 605
Perry, NY
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Dana I Offline
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Originally Posted by ceelmo.trap
SS went up 5.9% and then they raised the medicare premium cost wiped out the raise. Ive said it before money profit greed rule, man creates inflation man can stop it or bring under control.Those that have the deep pockets dont care about inflation. Have ya ever heard a millionaire complain about cost, gas food medical .



Yes I have. They didn't get to be millionaires by being foolish with their money. The ones I know tend to have a pretty good handle on where every penny is going.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459603
01/13/22 01:40 PM
01/13/22 01:40 PM
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Posts: 700
MO
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NEMOparttimer Offline
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Must be the fur prices that are offsetting the increases of other consumer goods! Doing our part to keep inflation down, LOL.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459610
01/13/22 01:44 PM
01/13/22 01:44 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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I would think those with deep pockets care most about inflation. They have a lot more to lose than those with shallow pockets.


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: white17] #7459621
01/13/22 01:52 PM
01/13/22 01:52 PM
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KeithC Offline
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Originally Posted by white17
I would think those with deep pockets care most about inflation. They have a lot more to lose than those with shallow pockets.


Inflation hurts those who save money at no or low rates of return worst. It hurts those whose income doesn't rise to keep pace with inflation the second worst.

Keith

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: KeithC] #7459632
01/13/22 02:00 PM
01/13/22 02:00 PM
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Posts: 777
NC - Here there and everywhere
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coondagger2 Offline
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Originally Posted by KeithC
Originally Posted by white17
I would think those with deep pockets care most about inflation. They have a lot more to lose than those with shallow pockets.


Inflation hurts those who save money at no or low rates of return worst. It hurts those whose income doesn't rise to keep pace with inflation the second worst.

Keith

Good point Keith. I don't think anyone will see a 7% cost of living raise


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459633
01/13/22 02:01 PM
01/13/22 02:01 PM
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MN
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ceelmo.trap Offline
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The rich have exploited the tax loopholes like forever to keep from paying a fair taxable amount on their millions or billions some even say it isnt right but they keep doin it.Those that control the markets are the ones that control cost. Everyone should be sick and tired of pandemic blame for this. Find it hard to pat a the filthy rich on the back when they made that money on the sweat and labor by what i believe to be were the middle and lower class. Wages for years have not keep up with inflation, how many times have workers got a pay raise to have it wiped out by a tax increase or insurance that went and other rising costs at the time.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459634
01/13/22 02:02 PM
01/13/22 02:02 PM
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white17 Offline

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Correct . That's why many people try to spend their money as fast as possible in an inflationary environment. But.........all that does is drive prices higher, faster.


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459651
01/13/22 02:26 PM
01/13/22 02:26 PM
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ceelmo.trap Offline
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And those that try to not to blow what monies they have are still at the mercy of what seems to be constant rising prices,those monies only go so far. Still when ya step back and look at D.C and the house and senate and make a list of all the millionaires that have been elected that are supposed to be working for all the people that they are not.they are the ones that write the laws our nations rule book have the biggest hand in writing what should be fair tax laws for all people. maybe they should all make public their net worth and all things and companies they have ties to and show all Americans where the money lays.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: ceelmo.trap] #7459652
01/13/22 02:28 PM
01/13/22 02:28 PM
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Posts: 3,212
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
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Originally Posted by ceelmo.trap
SS went up 5.9% and then they raised the medicare premium cost wiped out the raise. Ive said it before money profit greed rule, man creates inflation man can stop it or bring under control.Those that have the deep pockets dont care about inflation. Have ya ever heard a millionaire complain about cost, gas food medical .


Yup! Everyone I know who has made a lot of money in life watches their spending closely. That's nothing new. Read the book, "The Millionaire Next Door" it will be a real eye-opener for you.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: ceelmo.trap] #7459655
01/13/22 02:29 PM
01/13/22 02:29 PM
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Posts: 3,212
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
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Originally Posted by ceelmo.trap
The rich have exploited the tax loopholes like forever to keep from paying a fair taxable amount on their millions or billions some even say it isnt right but they keep doin it.Those that control the markets are the ones that control cost. Everyone should be sick and tired of pandemic blame for this. Find it hard to pat a the filthy rich on the back when they made that money on the sweat and labor by what i believe to be were the middle and lower class. Wages for years have not keep up with inflation, how many times have workers got a pay raise to have it wiped out by a tax increase or insurance that went and other rising costs at the time.


Spoken by a guy who can't wait to get his tax "Refund" of the money he never even paid in. Oh wait, that money is provided by those rich people you hate.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: BernieB.] #7459658
01/13/22 02:34 PM
01/13/22 02:34 PM
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KeithC Offline
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Originally Posted by BernieB.
Originally Posted by ceelmo.trap
SS went up 5.9% and then they raised the medicare premium cost wiped out the raise. Ive said it before money profit greed rule, man creates inflation man can stop it or bring under control.Those that have the deep pockets dont care about inflation. Have ya ever heard a millionaire complain about cost, gas food medical .


Yup! Everyone I know who has made a lot of money in life watches their spending closely. That's nothing new. Read the book, "The Millionaire Next Door" it will be a real eye-opener for you.


In Cincinnati, Ohio, the long term employees of Proctor & Gamble, including the factory workers, who took the stock options offered them, all became millionaires.

Rich people, for the most part work smarter, harder and longer hours than poor people. They also take much more risk.

Keith

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459660
01/13/22 02:35 PM
01/13/22 02:35 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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smile


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: NEMOparttimer] #7459663
01/13/22 02:42 PM
01/13/22 02:42 PM
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Minnesota
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Originally Posted by NEMOparttimer
Must be the fur prices that are offsetting the increases of other consumer goods! Doing our part to keep inflation down, LOL.

grin


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459678
01/13/22 03:02 PM
01/13/22 03:02 PM
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MN
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ceelmo.trap Offline
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Not everybody worked for companies as long time employees like that and became millionaires. stating what I think just has been nothing but the chance get shot down. Going back to lurking alot safer staying away for ya'all experts.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459682
01/13/22 03:07 PM
01/13/22 03:07 PM
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adam m Offline
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7% laugh
I ate panda Express for lunch. The same 2 item meal was $8.52 2 weeks ago. Today it was $9.23 that equals 8.3333% increase.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: ceelmo.trap] #7459690
01/13/22 03:12 PM
01/13/22 03:12 PM
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KeithC Offline
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Originally Posted by ceelmo.trap
Not everybody worked for companies as long time employees like that and became millionaires. stating what I think just has been nothing but the chance get shot down. Going back to lurking alot safer staying away for ya'all experts.


Part of what makes America great is that you can choose where you work and even start your own business if you want to. If you're not happy with how you are employed, go change it. Nobody else owes you a living. Part of living in a free country, that liberals never comprehend, is that you are responsible if you succeed or fail yourself. If you don't like the wages you are paid, don't work there. America, despite the damage liberals continue to do to her, is a land of opportunity.

Keith

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: adam m] #7459697
01/13/22 03:21 PM
01/13/22 03:21 PM
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white17 Offline

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Originally Posted by adam m
7% laugh
I ate panda Express for lunch. The same 2 item meal was $8.52 2 weeks ago. Today it was $9.23 that equals 8.3333% increase.




Inflation is measured in several places across the country. In some areas it is higher than others. But the same methods are used everywhere so that an overall WEIGHTED AVERAGE" can be determined for a given time period. Some items in the basket of goods may go up in certain areas and down in others.

The other thing to factor in here is that inflation is increasing WORLDWIDE. Not just in the USA. What is going on in the world that is affecting labor markets, and supply chain issues ? Something we won't talk about but certainly has an impact.


If you really think that overall inflation in the US is averaging greater than 7% annually, please explain to me why the 10 year treasury yield is only 1.72 % currently .


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459700
01/13/22 03:23 PM
01/13/22 03:23 PM
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Perry, NY
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Dana I Offline
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100% what Keith said.

Ceelmo I fail to see where everyone is tearing you down. We don't agree with what you said but that is another great thing about this country. We are allowed to form our own opinions and express them. I often have people tell me that I just don't understand what they are saying. I usually fire back with yes I do understand, I just don't agree. That usually gets them pretty fired up. That seems to be the situation here.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459706
01/13/22 03:31 PM
01/13/22 03:31 PM
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Posts: 2,685
MN
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Donnersurvivor Online sick
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I upped my prices 15%, gave an employee a 15% raise as well. I'm flirting with raising prices another 15% this spring, if call volume remains stable/high I will raise at least 15% more by April.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459714
01/13/22 03:38 PM
01/13/22 03:38 PM
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Sandhills Nebraska
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Gary Benson Offline
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Dow Jones was at 36,500 today which is very close to the all time record high. DJ doesn't cover but a handful of big companies but it's an indicator. I think.


I know I'm paranoid......but am I paranoid ENOUGH???
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459720
01/13/22 03:43 PM
01/13/22 03:43 PM
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adam m Offline
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White I'm no pro with world economics but I just gave another example to jbryds list.
Yes there's tons of factors involved. Everything is skyrocketing in prices. We talk about labor shortages and supply chain issues often. It's been several months and cargo ships still can't dock right away. Been nearly 1 year we went from energy and oil exporting to begging OPECand tapping the reserves for oil.


Maybe Biden Harris and buttigieg need to stop sucking their pacifiers put on their big kid pants and get to work. Maybe they should all admit they can't do the job and quit.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459724
01/13/22 03:48 PM
01/13/22 03:48 PM
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McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

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Well they sure are not helping at all. But neither is Congress by making believe we can inflate ourselves out of inflation by adding more money to the pot. George Orwell made an apt observation for that type of thinking.........“One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool.”


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459740
01/13/22 04:07 PM
01/13/22 04:07 PM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Online content
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Quote
Oh wait, that money is provided by those rich people you hate.


Except it isnt. The fed creates more money every year and tax dollars just pay the interest.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459747
01/13/22 04:14 PM
01/13/22 04:14 PM
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Olathe , KS
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Ceelmo.trap - I don't think anyone is shooting you down - you're stating YOUR opinion - the problem is the facts do not correlate with YOUR opinion

the Top 1% - of those making approximately $545,000 pay 40.10% of all income taxes
the Top 10% of those making approximately $ 151,937 and greater pay 71.37% of all income taxes

so If we look at the inverse of the last data point

90% pay (100% - 71.37) 28.63% of Federal Income taxes you see that 90% pay less than 30% of all federal income taxes


Your right the rich don"t pay their " fair share" - They pay way more than their fair share

Wishing you the best


tough times dont last tough people do

You are the sum of YOUR decisions
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Gary Benson] #7459763
01/13/22 04:49 PM
01/13/22 04:49 PM
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jbyrd63 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Gary Benson
Dow Jones was at 36,500 today which is very close to the all time record high. DJ doesn't cover but a handful of big companies but it's an indicator. I think.


THIS is the problem . People (not just you) point to the stock market and say "things are great" But the average jos doesn't own stock. PLUS the stock is way over inflated by the way the fed is giving Buy back dollars. (another thread) When in "real" life the shelves are bare, the items on them are way over priced. Another stat poopy joe pointed out was record sales during Christmas. YES record prices equal record sales. Not that more goods were sold for more profit s it was just the retail prices were so high.
Just like movie grossing millions more now days versus 20 years ago. LOl tickets 20 bucks now when they were 5 back then.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: bwurts] #7459766
01/13/22 04:52 PM
01/13/22 04:52 PM
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jbyrd63 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by bwurts
Ceelmo.trap - I don't think anyone is shooting you down - you're stating YOUR opinion - the problem is the facts do not correlate with YOUR opinion

the Top 1% - of those making approximately $545,000 pay 40.10% of all income taxes
the Top 10% of those making approximately $ 151,937 and greater pay 71.37% of all income taxes

so If we look at the inverse of the last data point

90% pay (100% - 71.37) 28.63% of Federal Income taxes you see that 90% pay less than 30% of all federal income taxes


Your right the rich don"t pay their " fair share" - They pay way more than their fair share


Wishing you the best





Only thing I see wrong with your example is I don't think someone making 150,000 is in the TOP 10 percent of the nation.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459770
01/13/22 04:57 PM
01/13/22 04:57 PM
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Dana I Offline
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Not true... The average Joe does often own stock and many are so financially illiterate that they don't even realize it.

Have a 401k, you own stock
Have a IRA (Roth, traditional, rollover, simple) you own stock.

Many people talk about greedy wall street not even realizing it is themselves they are referring to.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459774
01/13/22 05:02 PM
01/13/22 05:02 PM
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KeithC Offline
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Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Originally Posted by Gary Benson
Dow Jones was at 36,500 today which is very close to the all time record high. DJ doesn't cover but a handful of big companies but it's an indicator. I think.


THIS is the problem . People (not just you) point to the stock market and say "things are great" But the average jos doesn't own stock. PLUS the stock is way over inflated by the way the fed is giving Buy back dollars. (another thread) When in "real" life the shelves are bare, the items on them are way over priced. Another stat poopy joe pointed out was record sales during Christmas. YES record prices equal record sales. Not that more goods were sold for more profit s it was just the retail prices were so high.
Just like movie grossing millions more now days versus 20 years ago. LOl tickets 20 bucks now when they were 5 back then.


56% of adult Americans own stock, so the average "Joes" most definitely do own stock.

https://www.fool.com/research/how-many-americans-own-stock/

Stock prices are inflating just like the majority of other items for sale in America. America is not doing well.

Keith

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459788
01/13/22 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Originally Posted by bwurts
Ceelmo.trap - I don't think anyone is shooting you down - you're stating YOUR opinion - the problem is the facts do not correlate with YOUR opinion

the Top 1% - of those making approximately $545,000 pay 40.10% of all income taxes
the Top 10% of those making approximately $ 151,937 and greater pay 71.37% of all income taxes

so If we look at the inverse of the last data point

90% pay (100% - 71.37) 28.63% of Federal Income taxes you see that 90% pay less than 30% of all federal income taxes


Your right the rich don"t pay their " fair share" - They pay way more than their fair share


Wishing you the best





Only thing I see wrong with your example is I don't think someone making 150,000 is in the TOP 10 percent of the nation.


An incredibly quick search will prove that what Bwurts said is pretty close to exact.

Keith

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: ceelmo.trap] #7459792
01/13/22 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ceelmo.trap
The rich have exploited the tax loopholes like forever to keep from paying a fair taxable amount on their millions or billions some even say it isnt right but they keep doin it.Those that control the markets are the ones that control cost. Everyone should be sick and tired of pandemic blame for this. Find it hard to pat a the filthy rich on the back when they made that money on the sweat and labor by what i believe to be were the middle and lower class. Wages for years have not keep up with inflation, how many times have workers got a pay raise to have it wiped out by a tax increase or insurance that went and other rising costs at the time.


If you are not using every opportunity in the tax code to pay as little as possible you are an idiot.


-Goofy-
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: white17] #7459801
01/13/22 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by white17
Well they sure are not helping at all. But neither is Congress by making believe we can inflate ourselves out of inflation by adding more money to the pot. George Orwell made an apt observation for that type of thinking.........“One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool.”

That is very true too. Every politician needs to have term limits. Yet people keep voting the same people in thinking it will change.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7459803
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Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted by ceelmo.trap
The rich have exploited the tax loopholes like forever to keep from paying a fair taxable amount on their millions or billions some even say it isnt right but they keep doin it.Those that control the markets are the ones that control cost. Everyone should be sick and tired of pandemic blame for this. Find it hard to pat a the filthy rich on the back when they made that money on the sweat and labor by what i believe to be were the middle and lower class. Wages for years have not keep up with inflation, how many times have workers got a pay raise to have it wiped out by a tax increase or insurance that went and other rising costs at the time.


If you are not using every opportunity in the tax code to pay as little as possible you are an idiot.

Well calling the guy an idiot will definitely help him feel better about already being badgered and browbeat into not posting anymore. Good job! 👍

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Davisfur] #7459805
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Originally Posted by Davisfur
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper


If you are not using every opportunity in the tax code to pay as little as possible you are an idiot.

Well calling the guy an idiot will definitely help him feel better about already being badgered and browbeat into not posting anymore. Good job! 👍


“You” is not exclusive to him in the statement.


-Goofy-
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Davisfur] #7459812
01/13/22 05:56 PM
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Changes in the economy can and does create opportunities and in some cases opportunities for new ventures and new startups. Stagnation has given us a lot of centralization, will it be good to reduce some of that? What may be the cost? For how long and for who? Inflation for those planting 300 million acres of commodity crops will be very high for the coming year and food and fiber transfer into increases that few can avoid.

Bryce

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: ceelmo.trap] #7459813
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Originally Posted by ceelmo.trap
The rich have exploited the tax loopholes like forever to keep from paying a fair taxable amount on their millions or billions some even say it isnt right but they keep doin it.Those that control the markets are the ones that control cost. Everyone should be sick and tired of pandemic blame for this. Find it hard to pat a the filthy rich on the back when they made that money on the sweat and labor by what i believe to be were the middle and lower class. Wages for years have not keep up with inflation, how many times have workers got a pay raise to have it wiped out by a tax increase or insurance that went and other rising costs at the time.


Start your own company. Then you can pay the workers whatever they want. See how long you are in business.


When people think top 10 % they think millionaires. $150,000 is top 10%. Probably top 1 percent for the world.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459890
01/13/22 07:30 PM
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56% of adult Americans own stock, so the average "Joes" most definitely do own stock.

https://www.fool.com/research/how-many-americans-own-stock/

Stock prices are inflating just like the majority of other items for sale in America. America is not doing well.

Keith


One big mistake in this article is the obvious.
It claims 145 million people own stock. 145 million is NOT 54% of the US CITIZENS ! The reported US CITIZENS was roughly 331 million. Even Ky math 145 ain't 54 % of 331

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459901
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Originally Posted by jbyrd63


56% of adult Americans own stock, so the average "Joes" most definitely do own stock.

https://www.fool.com/research/how-many-americans-own-stock/

Stock prices are inflating just like the majority of other items for sale in America. America is not doing well.

Keith


One big mistake in this article is the obvious.
It claims 145 million people own stock. 145 million is NOT 54% of the US CITIZENS ! The reported US CITIZENS was roughly 331 million. Even Ky math 145 ain't 54 % of 331

You seem to have missed the word ADULT in Keith's reply.
209 million over 18 in the US.
You need to learn to do some research.
Lol Lol Lol

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459907
01/13/22 07:43 PM
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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7459970
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Any day now the Fed is going realize 7% is higher than 2% target rate.


Who is John Galt?
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Dirt] #7459978
01/13/22 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirt
Any day now the Fed is going realize 7% is higher than 2% target rate.


Interest rates should be rising anytime now.

Keith

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: ceelmo.trap] #7460105
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Originally Posted by ceelmo.trap
The rich have exploited the tax loopholes like forever to keep from paying a fair taxable amount on their millions or billions some even say it isnt right but they keep doin it.Those that control the markets are the ones that control cost. Everyone should be sick and tired of pandemic blame for this. Find it hard to pat a the filthy rich on the back when they made that money on the sweat and labor by what i believe to be were the middle and lower class. Wages for years have not keep up with inflation, how many times have workers got a pay raise to have it wiped out by a tax increase or insurance that went and other rising costs at the time.


Yes, those millionaires and billionaires have pallets of cash horded in their basements. Surely their "worth" isn't tied up in physical assets, property, and investments... That can't be it.

And all those corporations with record profits sit on all of it. They never pay out dividends or increase the value of the people who invested and bought a share of that corporation.

Economic illiteracy... the bread and butter of envy and marxist class struggle.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460112
01/13/22 09:55 PM
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Amen Mike !!


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: KeithC] #7460135
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Originally Posted by KeithC
Originally Posted by Dirt
Any day now the Fed is going realize 7% is higher than 2% target rate.


Interest rates should be rising anytime now.

Keith


The U.S. Federal Reserve has significantly ramped up its holdings of Treasury securities as part of a broader effort to counteract the economic impact of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic. Currently, the Federal Reserve holds more Treasury notes and bonds than ever before.

As of July 14, 2021, the Federal Reserve has a portfolio totaling $8.3 trillion in assets, an increase of about $3.6 trillion since March 18, 2020. Longer-term Treasury notes and bonds (excluding inflation-indexed securities) comprise nearly two-thirds of that expansion, with holdings of those two types of securities doubling from $2.2 trillion on March 18, 2020, to $4.5 trillion on July 14, 2021.

Maybe they will be able to start selling these off? smile


Who is John Galt?
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460138
01/13/22 10:13 PM
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That's the plan but first they need to stop buying more


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: white17] #7460186
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Originally Posted by white17
Amen Mike !!


You know, I really don't like being a hard case about stuff. But the constant onslaught of nonsense is wearing thin. I'm just a tradesman with a high school education. I don't know all the ins and outs of economics but I have a basic understanding of how things work.

One thing that I'll never figure out is why people insist others pay more taxes instead of demanding everyone pay less. Especially when the entities that they want to pay more taxes will just pass that cost along to the consumer.

Mike


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Mike in A-town] #7460231
01/13/22 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
Originally Posted by white17
Amen Mike !!


You know, I really don't like being a hard case about stuff. But the constant onslaught of nonsense is wearing thin. I'm just a tradesman with a high school education. I don't know all the ins and outs of economics but I have a basic understanding of how things work.

One thing that I'll never figure out is why people insist others pay more taxes instead of demanding everyone pay less. Especially when the entities that they want to pay more taxes will just pass that cost along to the consumer.

Mike


Envy.


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460268
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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460292
01/14/22 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by adam m
7% laugh
I ate panda Express for lunch. The same 2 item meal was $8.52 2 weeks ago. Today it was $9.23 that equals 8.3333% increase.




Inflation is measured in several places across the country. In some areas it is higher than others. But the same methods are used everywhere so that an overall WEIGHTED AVERAGE" can be determined for a given time period. Some items in the basket of goods may go up in certain areas and down in others.

The other thing to factor in here is that inflation is increasing WORLDWIDE. Not just in the USA. What is going on in the world that is affecting labor markets, and supply chain issues ? Something we won't talk about but certainly has an impact.


If you really think that overall inflation in the US is averaging greater than 7% annually, please explain to me why the 10 year treasury yield is only 1.72 % currently .


It stands to reason that inflation is a worldwide issue. Every central bank in advanced economies cranked the presses in 2020. QE isn't only a US phenomenon.

Real inflation is greater than 7 percent and I believe you know why 10 year rates are artificially low.

Eventually the market will set the rates.

If the inflation we are currently experiencing is a result of labor and supply shortages caused by the elephant in the room it would be transitory. Even the FED has finally realized there is nothing transitory about this.


Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Dirt] #7460294
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Originally Posted by Dirt


As of July 14, 2021, the Federal Reserve has a portfolio totaling $8.3 trillion in assets, an increase of about $3.6 trillion since March 18, 2020. Longer-term Treasury notes and bonds (excluding inflation-indexed securities) comprise nearly two-thirds of that expansion, with holdings of those two types of securities doubling from $2.2 trillion on March 18, 2020, to $4.5 trillion on July 14, 2021.

Maybe they will be able to start selling these off? smile



They tried that in 2018 when the economy was supposedly red hot. It failed and QE began anew in august of 19.

THE FED is trapped.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460347
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I'm surprised that no one mentioned that the CPI excludes the cost of food and fuel in its calculation.

The government removed those 2, I believe in the '70's because it made the inflation % look to high when the "average" person was told what it was.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460349
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I've raised my prices 8% and then again 9% in the last 6 months. My suppliers are still raising theirs so I'll soon be raising them again, probably another 8 or 9%.


-Ryan
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460407
01/14/22 07:52 AM
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something that could affect inflation that I haven't heard anyone speak of is that the West Coast Dockworkers contract expires July 2022 - guess who has ALL of the leverage in those negotiations? things are bad enough now as it pertains to ships being unloaded - what happens if things come to a complete standstill? - something to think about


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460455
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It took sky high interest rates to tame inflation in the 70's. My father recently unearthed a loan agreement from that time period while going through old bank records. The interest rate on the note was 27%. That rate had to be bumping up against usury rates. I bought a Datsun pickup in the fall of 1976 and I remember the interest rate was fairly high on that loan.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Steven 49er] #7460471
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Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Originally Posted by Dirt


As of July 14, 2021, the Federal Reserve has a portfolio totaling $8.3 trillion in assets, an increase of about $3.6 trillion since March 18, 2020. Longer-term Treasury notes and bonds (excluding inflation-indexed securities) comprise nearly two-thirds of that expansion, with holdings of those two types of securities doubling from $2.2 trillion on March 18, 2020, to $4.5 trillion on July 14, 2021.

Maybe they will be able to start selling these off? smile



They tried that in 2018 when the economy was supposedly red hot "The Greatest Economy in the history of our Country". It failed and QE began anew in august of 19.

THE FED is trapped.


They are good at the unwritten mandate." Keep the Stock market growing. "

We can't even normalize rates since 2007. Probably never will.

Last edited by Dirt; 01/14/22 09:49 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Mike in A-town] #7460576
01/14/22 10:22 AM
01/14/22 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
Originally Posted by white17
Amen Mike !!


You know, I really don't like being a hard case about stuff. But the constant onslaught of nonsense is wearing thin. I'm just a tradesman with a high school education. I don't know all the ins and outs of economics but I have a basic understanding of how things work.

One thing that I'll never figure out is why people insist others pay more taxes instead of demanding everyone pay less. Especially when the entities that they want to pay more taxes will just pass that cost along to the consumer.

Mike



Exactly right !


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: bwurts] #7460578
01/14/22 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by bwurts
something that could affect inflation that I haven't heard anyone speak of is that the West Coast Dockworkers contract expires July 2022 - guess who has ALL of the leverage in those negotiations? things are bad enough now as it pertains to ships being unloaded - what happens if things come to a complete standstill? - something to think about



Biden could replay the Reagan air traffic controllers strike.........but of course that won't happen


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: 3togo] #7460587
01/14/22 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 3togo
I'm surprised that no one mentioned that the CPI excludes the cost of food and fuel in its calculation.

The government removed those 2, I believe in the '70's because it made the inflation % look to high when the "average" person was told what it was.



No. They remove those two items because they are so volatile that the result is unusable. By removing food and fuel from the 'core' items it gives a better picture of what is happening with everything else.
They report CPI both ways. With and without food and fuel. They aren't hiding anything from anyone that can read.


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Steven 49er] #7460591
01/14/22 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Originally Posted by Dirt


As of July 14, 2021, the Federal Reserve has a portfolio totaling $8.3 trillion in assets, an increase of about $3.6 trillion since March 18, 2020. Longer-term Treasury notes and bonds (excluding inflation-indexed securities) comprise nearly two-thirds of that expansion, with holdings of those two types of securities doubling from $2.2 trillion on March 18, 2020, to $4.5 trillion on July 14, 2021.

Maybe they will be able to start selling these off? smile



They tried that in 2018 when the economy was supposedly red hot. It failed and QE began anew in august of 19.

THE FED is trapped.



I agree to a large extent.... and that, IMO is why we don't see the 10 year treasury yield sky rocketing. I believe the bond market does NOT believe the Fed can/will follow through to any great extent with rate increases. . So to a large degree, I too think the Fed is trapped.

I have a lot more faith in the bond market than in the Fed.


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460593
01/14/22 10:35 AM
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This is nothing at the moment. Wait until the depression hits and believe me, it's coming. It's pretty much inevitable at this point. It's going to be much worse than the 30's. Not only economically but people are so soft these days that many may not survive it. I'm trying to get the house paid off and be debt free before it hits but mark my words, it's coming.


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460594
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Seems to me the only way possible for us to pay back such huge national debt is to increase the money supply, devalue the currency, and pay the debt back with cheaper dollars.

That's a good thing for people that owe a lot of money. But it's a really bad thing for the people who have a good savings account balance.


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None shall take thee
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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: white17] #7460597
01/14/22 10:38 AM
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White, do you watch the Kitco site, some good some not so info. Daily ratios though.


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460604
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No I don't but I'll take a look now that you've mentioned it. Just can't get excited about metals.


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Kart29] #7460613
01/14/22 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kart29
Seems to me the only way possible for us to pay back such huge national debt is to increase the money supply, devalue the currency, and pay the debt back with cheaper dollars.

That's a good thing for people that owe a lot of money. But it's a really bad thing for the people who have a good savings account balance.



I have been saying that same thing for a while now. People seem to think I'm nuts. The big problem with that plan is that the government would be in control and they are worse with money than anybody I know.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Finster] #7460694
01/14/22 01:09 PM
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rick olson Offline
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It's only going to get WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!The crash is coming I plan on having my house and 160 acres paid off sometime this year 7% is a flat out lie more like 15 to 18% it will take time but hopefully within 3 to 4 years we get it back under control.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Kart29] #7460905
01/14/22 06:14 PM
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Steven 49er Offline
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Originally Posted by Kart29
Seems to me the only way possible for us to pay back such huge national debt is to increase the money supply, devalue the currency, and pay the debt back with cheaper dollars.

That's a good thing for people that owe a lot of money. But it's a really bad thing for the people who have a good savings account balance.



The debt will never be, and can not be paid back and they know it. What they would like to do is inflate the economy so the debt becomes sustainable in relation to GDP. It's not working. Every time they blow up the money supply through stimulus and QE the rise in GDP has a lower ROI from the free dollars.

The CPI was changed not to get a better gauge of inflation. It was much more dastardly than that. It was to bail out government entitlements that are pegged to inflation. Could any imagine where social security would be. Bankrupt comes to mind.

I am barely old enough to remember the inflation of the late 70s. If we figured inflation then like we do now it would have been less than the current published numbers. If that is the case than why was it perceived as such a big deal then and not so much now?

What is happening is a predictable as the full moon that is almost here and has been since Nixon broke the Breton Woods accord.


Hang on boys the roller coaster hasnt even hit the corkscrew yet. We still need one more round of deflation for things to really get squirrelly.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7460908
01/14/22 06:18 PM
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Steven 49er Offline
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Ken if you haven't looked at Kitco yet, save your time. Not because the info isn't necessarily sound but because I know you won't agree with it.

Rick, there isn't a politician outside of the Rand family with the will to fix the predicament we are in.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Steven 49er] #7460929
01/14/22 06:42 PM
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Steve start to get it under control we will never climb out of the hole that we are in and have been in for many many years.If the world does'nt come to the end rapture I feel REAL SORRY for the next 50 years and beyond.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: Steven 49er] #7461070
01/14/22 09:08 PM
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Ken if you haven't looked at Kitco yet, save your time. Not because the info isn't necessarily sound but because I know you won't agree with it.

Rick, there isn't a politician outside of the Rand family with the will to fix the predicament we are in.



Oh I think you misinterpret my position on metals. I have some physical gold, silver, and platinum but I don't view any of them as an investment. They are more curios to me.

That said, you and I are on the same page generally about monetary and fiscal policies. I believe there is no intent or desire to decrease or eliminate the debt or deficit. I don't believe it is possible.

I agree with Kart29 and others that the plan is to devalue the currency over time and as you say, get the debt to a point that is is somewhat sustainable relative to GDP. But that won't happen either because the government won't slow spending enough.....let alone stop spending.

So when I consider trying to hedge that devaluation I think stocks are a better way to go. Especially those related to natural resources. If I was 50 years younger I might look at AG, AU differently. But from my vantage point, an event that caused PM's to appreciate enough to justify holding them, is an event that is extremely high in consequences ( catastrophic) but extremely low in probability. Could it happen ? Yes. Is it probable in my lifetime ? no.

It's one of those things that is different for each person depending on their situation.

Just looking back on these last two years I have bartered a lot of reloading components but no precious metals. I think that bartering might be a more likely route in the years ahead.

One thing I wonder about is another "bank holiday" ala FDR. How would people react to something like that ? Today, I think there would be some mighty push back. But 20 years from now, when all the kids who have been inculcated with the CRT message, will there be enough people who understand what's going on ?

I think it was Bwurts who used the term "financially illiterate" earlier in this thread. I think that term is absolutely appropriate and applicable to a YUGE percentage of people. Maybe even a majority.

That surely needs to change.


Mean As Nails
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7461179
01/14/22 10:45 PM
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I agree White 17. People who are fat, dumb and happy place a lot more value on things like Twitter and Facebook than they do on staying warm and staying fed. Europe is getting a little taste of how valuable natural gas is when it is in short supply.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7461189
01/14/22 10:56 PM
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"On Thursday, Jan 14, the Senate voted down legislation from GOP Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas to sanction entities associated with Russia's controversial Nord Stream 2 pipeline. "

Maybe Europe will get some gas?


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7461198
01/14/22 11:14 PM
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Maybe! Putin would probably sell them a couple months worth if they include the deed to Ukraine in the remittance envelope.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7461215
01/14/22 11:32 PM
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Steven 49er Offline
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Reloading supplies are a great I flatiron hedge.

Ken I don't think I misunderstand your position relating to metals, where I think our difference is the definition of sound money practices and the poor decision made when abandoned the gold standard . I believe an event that will cause the value of metals to increase is a mathematical certainty in my lifetime.

I should clarify I don't read the kitCo stuff much, it's the same old broken record. I used to like to read the Kitco forums and still do but it's become really mundane

I agree about natural resource related stocks as well as other commodities that will benefit from a devaluing dollar. In my personally directed accounts I may be getting a bit overweight in those areas lol.

Humor me Ken, you say that stocks are the best to outpace inflation, a premise I agree with in an organic market.[b][/b] where do think the markets would be without the inflationary policies of governments and central banks?

The government cannot stop deficit spending, a debt backed currency demands it. The longer an economy runs on a fiat system it requires more of it.

Rick, I don't take much stock in rapture talk, as bad as we perceive things to be, there isn't any time in the history of the for the average human being to be alive.

Last edited by Steven 49er; 01/14/22 11:43 PM.
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7461621
01/15/22 01:56 PM
01/15/22 01:56 PM
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white17 Offline

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I agree with you that the move by Nixon on gold was a poor decision. ( but I think you mean even earlier than that) That said, I think if we were still on a gold standard completely, it would really constrain the growth of the economy.

On the other hand, at least private enterprise would not be competing with government for capital.

Where would markets be without central banks ? Realistically, I think we'd be about 30% lower on the indexes than right now. But there is another side to that question. Without central banking there would likely be a lot more unpredictability about the cost of capital. I think that would affect the markets to an even greater degree than the recent easy money policies.

The whole argument about interest rates has moved from the realm of economics to the realm of politics, IMO. If we accept that the rate of inflation is currently 7%, then the 10 year treasury should be yielding 3.5-4%. But it is now around 1.8%

Every 1 % rise in rates increases the federal government's interest costs by 290 billion dollars per year. So if the ten year yield climbs to 3.5-4 % that means interest costs will be around 580 billion per year.

The bond market is telling us that there is no way the Fed will go that high. I agree they won't. Interest costs alone would eat up much of the annual budget, leaving nothing to spend on transfer payments. That won't happen. If it does happen we will be looking at a recession and the Fed will be again dropping rates just like they did in 2018.

A catastrophic event is possible and chances probably get greater as time passes. Here's one that is possible though pretty low probability IMO.

We see Biden stacking the Fed board of governors with easy money, climate change, anti-business activists. The game plan is to use the Fed to attack the banks and the oil companies. How will that lower prices ? We know just the opposite will happen. We may as well put Lizzy Warren and Bernie Sanders in charge of everything.

But consider the disruption it would cause if Biden resigned after the two year point of his residency. No one in his right mind wants Harris. This may not be the "big one" but it sure will roil the capital markets world wide.


Personally. I think inflation will decline not because of Fed intervention but slowly as the supply chain works out the kinks. I suspect by this time next year we will still be looking at 3-4% inflation and a yield on the ten year treasury at 2.5 MAX. I know you see that at that point we still have a negative real interest rate.

If that is true, then I don't see Armageddon in the markets because money will still be 'cheap'.

Whatever way this plays out, it is going to be a volatile and choppy time in the markets, IMO.


As an after thought.......I am more worried about this push by Yellen to impose the 15% worldwide tax on all business everywhere. Just another attempt to make it more difficult to avoid government confiscation of private assets, IMO, and a closer step to world government. And, of course, the biggest targets are all US corporations..................even Ford

grin


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7461681
01/15/22 03:20 PM
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Steven 49er Offline
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Even Ford! LMFAO.

For sure still following sound money practices would put a constraint on the economy and our standard of living would be lower. More importantly it would put serious constraints on a central government. Our model of government would look entirely different if they actually had to pay for the nonsense they do and propose

I don't look at either of those scenarios as a negative. We've given up a lot of liberty to get here and will give up more.

I can't say I could put a figure to where the indices would be without a debt backed currency but I think 30 percent lower is a bit conservative. Let us not forget that governments aren't the only one awash in unsustainable debt.

The fed picks by Biden would have generally scared the crap out of me but any more I feel let's get it on and get this over with.

I suppose I do mean earlier than Nixon breaking the Breton Woods accord, the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 in my opinion is the cause of most of what ails this country. It's only goal and achievements was to benefit 2 groups in the country.

This coming year will be interesting to say the least. 3 to 4 percent published inflation yoy is a possibility. The question is how much of that can our legacy costs take before it bankrupts the system
If we get a couple more years of say 5 percent CPI it will put a major damper on those on a fixed income and SS will be in even bigger trouble

If you see the ten year at 2.5 max where does that put the 30 year? Inverted again?

You brought up that naughty recession word. I think we are in the beginning of one at least in the technical sense.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7464595
01/18/22 10:15 AM
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Steven 49er Offline
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In bizarro world china has announced they are cutting rates, albeit it only 10 basis points and also some QE.

Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7464611
01/18/22 10:25 AM
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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China is having a tough time with their economy. Breaks my heart !!

Will the curve invert ?? I hope not. But I certainly expect it to flatten.

The 10 year is at 1.85 right now. The markets really don't like it !


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7464921
01/18/22 04:09 PM
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Steven 49er Offline
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Maybe the fed will get their technical difficulties fixed and can jump in and buy some to drive the price down.

Last edited by Steven 49er; 01/18/22 04:10 PM.
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7464930
01/18/22 04:15 PM
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white17 Offline

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LOL That would be the absolute end of any credibility for sure !

I guess they could have the Chinese do the buying laugh


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: white17] #7464931
01/18/22 04:17 PM
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Steven 49er Offline
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Originally Posted by white17


Will the curve invert ?? I hope not. But I certainly expect it to flatten.

t !


Only a 30 BP spread now right?

Maybe Lael Brained can save us lol

Last edited by Steven 49er; 01/18/22 04:19 PM.
Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7464933
01/18/22 04:22 PM
01/18/22 04:22 PM
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white17 Offline

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About that yes. The ten is yielding 1.872 and the 30 is at 2.189


Riiiiiiiight !! This other nominee really scares me. Raskin complete lefty radical


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Re: 7 % inflation LOL LOL LOL [Re: jbyrd63] #7464983
01/18/22 05:04 PM
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Hello gentleman just saw this, wanted to say a few words. My interest in pm, is just like my interest in land. For me anyway I've always felt the need to keep my investments in something with intrinsic value, and I'm not much on Art. And I do enjoy trading the ratios, growing with no out of pocket except the cost of gas and lunch. I see that aspect as more of a hobby. But one I take seriously.

That aside,from a historical perspective, recorded history anyway, correct me if I'm mistaken. There has never been any Govt., Country, State, that has lasted, for very long anyway that has relied on a fiat currency system. And yes I am aware of other mediums, some strange, some not so as in salt. And also for the first time in history ALL of the worlds govts. currently are on some form of fiat system. Maybe I'm nieave(sp) but I see our current system as a giant house of cards. Doomed to fall from its own weight. And just as a further aside, if au. and it's industrial little brother ag. are not as valuable as some may feel. Why do we [The US Govt.] expend so much time, energy, expense. Guarding and hiding it. Heck sell Ft. Knox pay down the debt put the solders and tanks where they'll do some good. Just my thoughts. Thanks if you read them.
Case


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